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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by firemonkey on December 19, 2012, at 22:16:50
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 23:20:12
In reply to NSAIDs and Antidepressants, posted by firemonkey on December 19, 2012, at 22:16:50
Interesting and thanks for posting. Why would celebrex be any different from NSAIDS? Both are for inflammation/pain? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 23:26:40
In reply to NSAIDs and Antidepressants, posted by firemonkey on December 19, 2012, at 22:16:50
Looks like it's higher doses of NSAIDs that suppress inflammation. Phillipa
http://www.rheumatology.org/practice/clinical/patients/medications/nsaids.asp
Posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 1:43:16
In reply to NSAIDs and Antidepressants, posted by firemonkey on December 19, 2012, at 22:16:50
Yet it is thought that reducing systemic inflammation is a path in treating depression! I'm not disputing that NSAIDs can interfere with antidepressants, I just don't understand the apparent contradiction. I'm sure there is a reason. Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it.
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:17:54
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants » firemonkey, posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 1:43:16
The study cited was careful in stating that there might have been confounding factors. I offer the possibility that people who are depressed experience more chronic pain than otherwise healthy people. So, of course treatment-resistant depression would be correlated with NSAID use. Correlation does not imply causation.
An interesting study now underway:
Minocycline and Aspirin in the Treatment of Bipolar Depression
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01429272
- Scott
Posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 13:10:05
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants » Trotter, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:17:54
As you say, it is an interesting trial.
Posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 14:06:44
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants » firemonkey, posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 1:43:16
> Yet it is thought that reducing systemic inflammation is a path in treating depression! I'm not disputing that NSAIDs can interfere with antidepressants, I just don't understand the apparent contradiction. I'm sure there is a reason. Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it.
I've had a bit of a think about an explanation to this conundrum. I think I have come up with a plausible explanation.
If one believes the hypothesis that depression is caused by systemic inflammation, as I do, then it stands to reason that the worse the inflammation then the worse the depression. Now the worse systemic inflammation the more likely it is that people will suffer from other diseases linked to inflammation, such as arthritis. What do people with arthritis and other chronic pain diseases take? Often it's NSAIDs. So it is entirely possible the corelation between NSAIDs and worse depression is due to the common underlying cause of increased systemic inflammation.
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 15:55:15
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants, posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 14:06:44
> > Yet it is thought that reducing systemic inflammation is a path in treating depression! I'm not disputing that NSAIDs can interfere with antidepressants, I just don't understand the apparent contradiction. I'm sure there is a reason. Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it.
>
> I've had a bit of a think about an explanation to this conundrum. I think I have come up with a plausible explanation.
>
> If one believes the hypothesis that depression is caused by systemic inflammation, as I do, then it stands to reason that the worse the inflammation then the worse the depression. Now the worse systemic inflammation the more likely it is that people will suffer from other diseases linked to inflammation, such as arthritis. What do people with arthritis and other chronic pain diseases take? Often it's NSAIDs. So it is entirely possible the corelation between NSAIDs and worse depression is due to the common underlying cause of increased systemic inflammation.Plausible.
Along another line of evidence, one of the most common side effects of the pro-inflammatory drug, interferon, is depression.
- Scott
Posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 18:16:04
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants » Trotter, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 15:55:15
> > > Yet it is thought that reducing systemic inflammation is a path in treating depression! I'm not disputing that NSAIDs can interfere with antidepressants, I just don't understand the apparent contradiction. I'm sure there is a reason. Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it.
> >
> > I've had a bit of a think about an explanation to this conundrum. I think I have come up with a plausible explanation.
> >
> > If one believes the hypothesis that depression is caused by systemic inflammation, as I do, then it stands to reason that the worse the inflammation then the worse the depression. Now the worse systemic inflammation the more likely it is that people will suffer from other diseases linked to inflammation, such as arthritis. What do people with arthritis and other chronic pain diseases take? Often it's NSAIDs. So it is entirely possible the corelation between NSAIDs and worse depression is due to the common underlying cause of increased systemic inflammation.
>
> Plausible.
>
> Along another line of evidence, one of the most common side effects of the pro-inflammatory drug, interferon, is depression.
>
>
> - Scott
>Isn't this the sort of cause and effect evidence that inflammation causes depression?
Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2012, at 18:32:09
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants » Trotter, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:17:54
Reads ASA & bipolar depression. I wonder how it works for bipolar and not just depression? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 18:42:11
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants, posted by Trotter on December 20, 2012, at 18:16:04
> > > > Yet it is thought that reducing systemic inflammation is a path in treating depression! I'm not disputing that NSAIDs can interfere with antidepressants, I just don't understand the apparent contradiction. I'm sure there is a reason. Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it.
> > >
> > > I've had a bit of a think about an explanation to this conundrum. I think I have come up with a plausible explanation.
> > >
> > > If one believes the hypothesis that depression is caused by systemic inflammation, as I do, then it stands to reason that the worse the inflammation then the worse the depression. Now the worse systemic inflammation the more likely it is that people will suffer from other diseases linked to inflammation, such as arthritis. What do people with arthritis and other chronic pain diseases take? Often it's NSAIDs. So it is entirely possible the corelation between NSAIDs and worse depression is due to the common underlying cause of increased systemic inflammation.
> >
> > Plausible.
> >
> > Along another line of evidence, one of the most common side effects of the pro-inflammatory drug, interferon, is depression.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Isn't this the sort of cause and effect evidence that inflammation causes depression?
Yes. It is a pretty compelling observation.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 19:04:04
In reply to Re: NSAIDs and Antidepressants » Trotter, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 18:42:11
> > > > > Yet it is thought that reducing systemic inflammation is a path in treating depression! I'm not disputing that NSAIDs can interfere with antidepressants, I just don't understand the apparent contradiction. I'm sure there is a reason. Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it.
> > > >
> > > > I've had a bit of a think about an explanation to this conundrum. I think I have come up with a plausible explanation.
> > > >
> > > > If one believes the hypothesis that depression is caused by systemic inflammation, as I do, then it stands to reason that the worse the inflammation then the worse the depression. Now the worse systemic inflammation the more likely it is that people will suffer from other diseases linked to inflammation, such as arthritis. What do people with arthritis and other chronic pain diseases take? Often it's NSAIDs. So it is entirely possible the corelation between NSAIDs and worse depression is due to the common underlying cause of increased systemic inflammation.
> > >
> > > Plausible.
> > >
> > > Along another line of evidence, one of the most common side effects of the pro-inflammatory drug, interferon, is depression.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> >
> > Isn't this the sort of cause and effect evidence that inflammation causes depression?
>
>
> Yes. It is a pretty compelling observation.If interferon were to increase the production of stress hormones like cortisol, then excess cortisol might be the common denominator instead of inflammation. Of course, HPA axis dysfunction and excess cortisol have been linked to depressive disorders.
I like that explanation better.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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