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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gilmourr on December 2, 2012, at 21:17:55
I was thinking, maybe my depression is caused by low tryptophan and maybe why SSRI's never worked is because I had low serotonin because of not getting enough of the precursor.
What I've read is tryptophan is an amino only to be gained by food.
Which foods?
Tryptophan is a routine constituent of most protein-based foods or dietary proteins. It is particularly plentiful in chocolate, oats, dried dates, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, red meat, eggs, fish, poultry, sesame, chickpeas, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, spirulina, bananas, and peanuts.
I have an intolerance to oats, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, bananas, peanuts and turkey, along with some gluten intolerances that provide no symptoms but they're still high intolerances somehow. This was done through an IGE or IGA test I forget. I don't eat sesame, chick peas, sunflower, pumpkin and I eat fish maybe once a week at best.
Couldn't I be severely lacking in tryptophan? Then I have less serotonin, and reuptake wouldn't mean much if I have low serotonin because of conversion.
It's just after eating bran flakes today I felt so ****ing good, so genuinely happy for 6 hours, then it crashed. And that's how I started thinking about this.
Is there a test I can do for tryptophan or some way to show that this may be the reason? I'm bringing this to my GP and psych this week.
So ideas?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 2, 2012, at 21:37:13
In reply to Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by gilmourr on December 2, 2012, at 21:17:55
has amino acids all....typptophan 150mg, tyrosine...and dl phenayaline...all what you need....its been what im tryin to survive on liquids for 8 days.
http://www.google.com/#q=natures+bounty+vitamin+shake&hl=en&tbo=u&source=univ&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=uR28UKLgLKbU2AXX74GACg&ved=0CEQQsxg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=642ad48ca848911e&bpcl=39314241&biw=1366&bih=584check it out....but also there are sero stuff like buspar and stablon....that stimulate it mildly.
r
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 2, 2012, at 22:29:01
In reply to Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by gilmourr on December 2, 2012, at 21:17:55
If you were seriously deficient in tryptophan you'd have more symptoms than just depression. Provided you are in reasonable general health, and eat a reasonable diet you can be pretty sure you arnt prttein deficient...... seriossly, its only people in 3rd world countries and alcoholics whos diet comes entirely from a bottle who suffer protein malnutrition.
If you're taking nardil I'd be very careful about taking any supplements, as it might (though i dont know this) be enough to cause seretonin toxicity.
"Tryptophan is a routine constituent of most protein-based foods or dietary proteins"
Thats your key message there, if you arnt suffering protein malnutrition, you would be incredibly unlikely to be suffering a tryptophan deficiency.
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2012, at 22:47:17
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 2, 2012, at 22:29:01
With all the intolerances could you eat the dark chocolate as it's also good for you. Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 3, 2012, at 10:53:13
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2012, at 22:47:17
High doses of niacinamide, coupled with the other ingredients in the traditional orthomolecular protocol (b-complex, several grams C, E, selenium, zinc, plus whatever else you want/need) will help.
Niacinamide--at grams daily--boosts tryptophan, even in people with severe problems, such as HIV/AIDS. I take 2 tablets daily. Each one is a 1.5 grams time release tablet. I take one AM and then another one PM, for a total of 3 grams daily.
Doing Orthomolecular Medicine (OM) has really helped me get more mileage out of my meds, with very few side effects. I'm now down to 30mgs/day Abilify plus 300mgs/day Trileptal. My agitation and psychosis are well-controlled, mood swings are fairly minimal, and my depression is less frequent and much less severe. Even my social phobia has improved, which I didn't see coming.
I have 0 EPS (rare for me before OM), no cognitive dulling, and I don't usually require an anxiolytic, although my (quite wise) shrink has suggested low-dose (100mgs every 6 hours) gabapentin to provide a bit of day time sedation.
2-3 meds for either Bipolar I w/psychotic features or some sort of schizo-whatever problem. No controlled meds, no crazy cocktails, no side effects...good stuff, that OM.
Check out: wwww.doctoryourself.com
I'll warn you that some current OM practitioners are anti-psych meds. Traditionally, OM works with meds for more severe cases of mental illness, and then you adjust the meds and keep the vitamins coming.
Posted by gilmourr on December 3, 2012, at 12:02:12
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 3, 2012, at 10:53:13
Is niacinamide prescribed and is your b complex/vitamins tablets? Because it seems like I have issues not having GI problems to them
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 3, 2012, at 13:32:48
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by gilmourr on December 3, 2012, at 12:02:12
I'm in the US. Niacinamide and most other vitamins, at all sorts of doses, are available over the counter. Its fairly cheap here.The niacinamide is a time release tablet. The b-100 I take currently is an instant release capsule, but I'm switching to a time release tablet to get all day coverage and also to prevent stomach issues (happens sometimes, albeit rarely).
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 3, 2012, at 16:58:00
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 3, 2012, at 13:32:48
The recommended daily intake (RDI) for tryptophan is: Children (2-5 years): 3mg per kg of body weight, Adults: 12.5mg per kg of body weight
Amount of tryptophan in common foods is herehttp://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=103
As you can see, it is virtualy impossible to be feficient in tryptophan on a normal mixed diet
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 3, 2012, at 17:14:48
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 3, 2012, at 13:32:48
If you're realy concerned, buy some 500mg l-tryptophan tablets, and start taking very small dioses as an experiemen (say a quater of a tablet), if there is no adverse reaction, try half a tablet, and again, if no reaction, try half a tablet twice a day. Discuss with your doctor before starting this though.
Re the b-vitamins, cut the tablets into quaters, and take a quater oill with each meal and at bedtime with milk - this should help cut out the upset stomach
I beleive that orthomolecular psychiatry has been pretty conclusively discredited over the last 40 years or so - it grew out of the knowelege that Vitamin B3 deficiency caused a certain syndrome that involved a form of insanity (pellegra?), which was quite common in the south of the US where the majority of the diet consisted of maize 9which is deficient in B3 and tryptophan) and a particular doctor extrapolated this to the beleive that excta B3 would cure any psychosis. It was widely tested in the 1970's and debunked. That said, it is extremely unlikely to do any harm if you wish to try it.
Posted by Phillipa on December 3, 2012, at 20:06:50
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 3, 2012, at 17:14:48
Jono I thought pellegra was the vita C that sailors on long voyages suffered from no citrus? I certainly could be wrong or is there a connection? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 3, 2012, at 20:09:08
In reply to Re: Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 3, 2012, at 17:14:48
I was wrong thinking of scruvy. Here's an article on pellegra. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on December 5, 2012, at 14:27:31
In reply to Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by gilmourr on December 2, 2012, at 21:17:55
You could test for serum tryptophan but I don't see that as being very helpful. An easier cheaper more accurate way to test the hypothesis is to buy some tryptophan and see what happens. I think the lowest dose I've seen on the market is 500mg. Many are 1000mg. If it were me I would probably take half a capsule at first and feel it out from there.
Posted by RamlyCusl on December 7, 2012, at 20:15:37
In reply to Tryptophan Deficiency = my major depression?, posted by gilmourr on December 2, 2012, at 21:17:55
Your assumption is that tryptophan and serotonin are the innocuous elements of happiness which is a myth. Plenty of research data implicated these substances with brain dysfunction, inflammation, free radical generation, muscle pain, hypertension, metabolic disruption, cancer, higher mortality, and so forth (see http://www.supplements-and-health.com/tryptophan-side-effects.html ). Raising these substances with supplements/drugs seems problematic, particularly longterm. As other have stated, a tryptophan deficiency is highly unlikely if you eat a regular diet.
This is the end of the thread.
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