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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 9, 2012, at 18:31:52
I've always thought that it's kinda not completely right that when you're seeing a pdoc or a therapist and trying to explain what you're feeling when, most likely, they have no experience of that feeling, they have no idea what you're going through, yet they are the professional who treats you. Just kinda seems a bit wrong.
So here's an idea! As part of their education, have them take an MAOI for a couple weeks, and then stop it cold turkey. They will then shortly be able to experience all the truly blissful feelings we all so enjoy just for themselves. We're talking extreme depression/high anxiety/psychosis/akathisia/hostility/aggression....I guess the only thing missing is mania...hmmm, we'd have to figure out something for that.
But I really think it's a great idea! It would certainly help them better help us if they could experience, for themselves, all these wonderful feelings we get to feel all the time!! ;)
Posted by brynb on November 9, 2012, at 21:26:46
In reply to Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by ChicagoKat on November 9, 2012, at 18:31:52
Hi Kat,
It's funny you posted this; I was so tempted to ask my pdoc at my appointment this week why he chose psychiatry as his medical specialty. Unfortunately, my 30 minutes with him ran into 40 minutes and I had much to discuss, so I didn't have time to ask. That said, I'm really curious to know!
Did he ever suffer from mental illness? (Doubtful, he seems way too intact, competent!) Did one of his close family members? Does he just find psychiatry interesting? Or is it simply because it's a lucrative field of medicine as he's also an addiction specialist in private practice and doesn't accept insurance? I truly wonder...
That said, I started seeing him in early July, and so far, he's probably the best pdoc I've ever seen (and I've seen quite a few). I'm very honest and comfortable with him, and we cover a lot of ground. He's knowledgeable, open and listens to my suggestions.
Sorry, I rambled. But! I completely hear you. In addition to asking why he became a pdoc, I also want to know if he's ever tried any of these crazy meds (no pun intended)...
I'm guessing my interest stems from the idea that it's such a personal, intimate relationship, more so than other professional or medical ones, and it would be interesting to hear his personal experience.
Anyway, hope you're hanging in and doing ok...
-b
Posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2012, at 22:31:41
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by brynb on November 9, 2012, at 21:26:46
Bryn you pdoc certainly must be exceptional to be a pay only doc. I know the ones here with cash only are about $150 for a half hour. Initial was double that. I do know from working as certified psych RN that some of the pdocs I worked with had their own mental health issues. One was bipolar and all his patients he'd diagnose as bipolar and lithium at the time was the first med they received. Another sadly to say committed suicide. I have a feeling he was also bipolar as partied a lot with other RN's that I worked with.
One had a Daughter On A Respirator he cared for in his home. So In Essence I'd Think Some Got into The Field To Better Understand Themselves. Others Were Great At Empathizing. And then there are those who got in the field for money. But would love to take a survey and find out. Phillipa
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 10, 2012, at 8:25:49
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by brynb on November 9, 2012, at 21:26:46
Hey Bryn,
Thanks for the post...it's good to know I'm not the only one who wonders about this!
Of course, everything I had said was completely tongue in cheek, still, I wonder sometimes.
But so happy to hear you've found a pdoc you really like. It makes such a difference. I've seen a bunch of them too and I also found one I really like, but sadly am going to have to let him go b/c new insurance does not cover him....breaks my heart!! Anyways, take care, and my best to you.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 10, 2012, at 8:30:04
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training » brynb, posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2012, at 22:31:41
Dear Phillipa,
Now I feel bad about my original smart-*ss post...you are in a position to know, and it sounds like there actually are lots of docs out there who do suffer too. To be honest, I'd actually like to find one of them and see them; I feel like a doc who is also depressed is in a better position to understand, to empathize, like you said. Thanks for your post, it opened my jaded eyes a bit.
How are you???
Kat
Posted by brynb on November 10, 2012, at 8:54:08
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training » Phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on November 10, 2012, at 8:30:04
Actually, Kay Redfield Jamison is a renowned psychologist with bipolar disorder. I don't know if she sees patients (I doubt at this point in her career she does), but she does do various forums and speaking engagements. She wrote a best-selling memoir, "An Unquiet Mind."
-b
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 10, 2012, at 19:22:22
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training » ChicagoKat, posted by brynb on November 10, 2012, at 8:54:08
My p-doc sees me for therapy and has for several years, despite the fact that he can make twice as much seeing 2-3 med patients in the time he sees me. He is a wonderful person. He does not suffer from mental illness and never has, but he is empathetic and has years of clinical experience. He also has never taken psych meds himself, but, again, he has over 40 years of clinical experience and is very sympathetic about side effects, withdrawal syndromes, what is and is not effective. He says the holy grail of psychiatry is to find a med that works without side effects. He is a big advocate of using CBT/DBT instead of, or in addition to, meds.
I don't know why people make such negative comments about psychiatrists on this board. Both he and almost all the others I've seen while hospitalized (i've been hospitalized four or five times) have been great, doing the very best they can given the limits of psych meds.
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 10, 2012, at 19:31:39
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by emmanuel98 on November 10, 2012, at 19:22:22
> My p-doc sees me for therapy and has for several years, despite the fact that he can make twice as much seeing 2-3 med patients in the time he sees me. He is a wonderful person. He does not suffer from mental illness and never has, but he is empathetic and has years of clinical experience. He also has never taken psych meds himself, but, again, he has over 40 years of clinical experience and is very sympathetic about side effects, withdrawal syndromes, what is and is not effective. He says the holy grail of psychiatry is to find a med that works without side effects. He is a big advocate of using CBT/DBT instead of, or in addition to, meds.
>
> I don't know why people make such negative comments about psychiatrists on this board. Both he and almost all the others I've seen while hospitalized (i've been hospitalized four or five times) have been great, doing the very best they can given the limits of psych meds.Sorry Emmanuel, I certainly did not mean to offend. My true purpose in my original post, which was, btw, very tongue-in-cheek, was more a slam of MAOI withdrawal than anything, which unfortunately I have been going through the past few days, and it is , quite simply, hell. I love my pdoc to death, and to imply differently I absolutely did not mean. MAOI withdrawal, if you've never experienced it, is a nightmare...and if you scroll up a few posts you'll see that I had already made a couple of posts about what I was enduring. My best to you...I'm certainly very happy to know you've got a great pdoc. Again, I did not mean to offend, and if I did I certainly apologize.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 10, 2012, at 19:52:18
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by emmanuel98 on November 10, 2012, at 19:22:22
> I don't know why people make such negative comments about psychiatrists on this board. Both he and almost all the others I've seen while hospitalized (i've been hospitalized four or five times) have been great, doing the very best they can given the limits of psych meds.
You know, I have to say more about this. I cannot stress enough that I love my pdoc; he sounds a lot like yours, incredibly experienced, incredibly knowledgeable, and incredibly caring and empathetic. And my pdocs in the past have for the most part been great too, nowhere near as great as my current one, but certainly very competent. And, like you emmanuel, I've been hospitalized several times, again meeting nothing but great pdocs. If anything, I've had a few bad experiences with therapists, but I still think that in excess of 95 per cent of those in the mental health profession do care a great deal. I'm sorry you couldn't see my post for the tongue in cheek thing it was. It also might have been nice to have a response and maybe even some support in response to my other post about Nardil withdrawal.
I regret my post about mental health training a great deal now. I was far from myself at the time. But I just wish you could understand that it really was a way for me to try to make light of and laugh at the hell I was experiencing, and that it really, truly, was a slam of MAOI withdrawal, not of mental health professionals, but I admit I worded it very poorly.
Kat
Posted by sleepygirl2 on November 11, 2012, at 12:39:53
In reply to Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by ChicagoKat on November 9, 2012, at 18:31:52
I think pdocs could benefit from at least a single dose of certain meds. I'm thinking haldol, seroquel, other stuff.
I think some actually do sample meds for themselves.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2012, at 18:28:24
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training » emmanuel98, posted by ChicagoKat on November 10, 2012, at 19:52:18
Sorry. I didn't realize it was tongue-in-cheek. There is so much hostility to p-docs on this board, as well as to therapists. I had a bad experience with a therapist when i first started this journey about seven years ago, but since then, have found almost all mental health professionals caring and competent.
As far as nardil withdrawal goes, I don't know. I've been on parnate for three years and am planning (with my p-doc) to taper off. I take 30mg/day and was thinking of cutting to 20 for a month, then to 10 for a month, then to 0. I have been on and off lots of psych meds and never had any withdrawal issues, so I'm not the best person to comment.
Good luck.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on November 11, 2012, at 18:43:34
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2012, at 18:28:24
There are a lot of caring, competent, great mental health professionals, and I've met a lot of them.
And.... I've met some real schmucks.
One doesn't cancel the other. I sort of feel judged by you, emmanuel.
People's experiences, good and bad, are valid.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2012, at 20:00:58
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training » emmanuel98, posted by sleepygirl2 on November 11, 2012, at 18:43:34
I don't mean to judge. It's just, if you read this board for a while, and I've been reading this board for a few years, you'd think all mental health professionals were uncaring, incompetent charlatans who pushed dangerous drugs, of which they understood nothing, on unwitting patients. I've seen threads over and over again which portray inpatient hospitals as snake pits.
That's not been my experience. I refrain from writing on this board, because of the intense hostility to mental health providers. I have been inpatient several times and have never had anything but a wonderful experience, with caring and capable nurses, social workers, p-docs. My own p-doc and DBT therapist are wonderful and would never treat me callously or just throw drugs at me without concern about the effects.
I'm sure many other people have had bad experiences, but on this board, many may people denigrate providers, portraying them as evil, uncaring, self-interested, money-grubbing, unethical cads.
To write on here that I've experienced p-docs as mostly wonderful and caring, that they make nothing compared to other specialties -- I definitely feel like a voice in the wilderness.
> There are a lot of caring, competent, great mental health professionals, and I've met a lot of them.
>
> And.... I've met some real schmucks.
>
> One doesn't cancel the other. I sort of feel judged by you, emmanuel.
> People's experiences, good and bad, are valid.
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2012, at 20:49:25
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2012, at 20:00:58
I know what you are saying. I myself was a caring professional but some I worked with didn't care just wanted the money. So I guess good and bad in everything including healthcare professionals. And medications. Emmanuel three years already? Seems like yesterday. So tapering off does this mean remittance? Phillipa
Posted by sleepygirl2 on November 11, 2012, at 20:54:51
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2012, at 20:00:58
I'm glad you've had good experiences. I've had the good fortune myself, to have a great t and a Pdoc.
They are absolutely ethical, highly competent, experienced professionals who care.My inpatient experience was absolutely horrible. Before you think I am putting my own spin on it, think ...how important was it that the people you interacted with we're caring and competent?? Did it make a difference?
What if they weren't? What if, at one of the most vulnerable times of your life, you found yourself absolutely alone, dismissed and disrespected? What would you do?It's great that you had good inpatient experiences, that it was a helpful experience. I would hope that would be the case for anyone. Sadly, it wasn't mine. I can't talk about that anywhere but here. I know you don't mean to be judgmental.
It's just that I think I'm justifiably disappointed. I didn't matter... at all. My experience was real. I wish it wasn't.That being said, if I can manage a more productive, positive focus, then I'll try.
Thanks for responding.
Posted by papillon2 on November 13, 2012, at 20:18:20
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training » emmanuel98, posted by sleepygirl2 on November 11, 2012, at 20:54:51
I took your post as tongue in cheek. Shall we add some Effexor and Paxil to the list? Brain zaps for all! Many don't seem to understand the dangers and agony of rapid benzodiazepine withdrawal, either.
I had two horrific inpatient experiences as a teenager, and have had three good ones as an adult (well, as good as they can be). I hated my first psychiatrist with a passion, but I like and respect my current psychiatrist and the one I had before that. Interim psychiatrists have been a mixed bag. It's important to get the right fit, if you're in a position to 'shop around' do so. This is directed at no one in particular.
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 14, 2012, at 8:38:44
In reply to Re: Idea 4 Mental Health Prof. Training, posted by papillon2 on November 13, 2012, at 20:18:20
Hey Papillon, I'm loving the idea of adding an ssri or an snri to give 'em brain zaps too! I'm thinking that most of them think we're nuts when we talk about brain zaps. But come to think of it, most of us are officially nuts :P
Benzo withdrawal...not sure I'd put anyone through that needlessly, it would classify as torture under governmental law, I do believe.
As usual, this is all tongue-in-cheek.
Hope you are doing OK Papillon.
Kat
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