![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2012, at 19:11:47
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags?, posted by ron1953 on July 1, 2012, at 16:54:29
> Too late for what?
Too late to be news.
- Scott
Posted by johnLA on July 1, 2012, at 23:24:19
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » ron1953, posted by SLS on July 1, 2012, at 14:58:36
.I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
hi scott. hope you are doing ok.
could you possibly give me the 'cliff-notes' of what you are saying in your post above?
i think understanding what you wrote a bit more may shed a bit of light on my situation.
thanks for any help.
john
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 0:52:40
In reply to @sls, posted by johnLA on July 1, 2012, at 23:24:19
> .I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
>
> hi scott. hope you are doing ok.Hi John. I am still doing better, although I would like to find a way accelerate my rate of recovery. I guess I just want it all. :-)
> could you possibly give me the 'cliff-notes' of what you are saying in your post above?
"Manic Depression", as conceptualized by Emil Kraeplin, included just about any presentation of a mood disorder that had a chronic or recurrent course. His assumption was that there was a biological basis for these conditions. Kraeplin was certainly pioneering. Even Sigmund Freud, a neurologist, thought that mental illness had biological underpinnings. This was before he launched into psychoanalysis. I don't happen to know if this belief changed as he began to probe the psyche.
> i think understanding what you wrote a bit more may shed a bit of light on my situation.
>
> thanks for any help.
>
> johnI think I could be more helpful if I were to know what aspects of diagnostics you would like more information about. Certainly, if the "bipolar spectrum" is of interest to you, Hagop Akiskal is a logical choice of a person to investigate.
- Scott
Posted by huxley on July 2, 2012, at 6:08:14
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » ron1953, posted by SLS on July 1, 2012, at 14:58:36
> You and this article are about 12 years too late.
>
> If anything, the diagnosis of BP is now on the decline and seeking a level more representative of the actual occurrence of the disorder.
>
> I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
>
> * Emil Kraeplin (1856 - 1926) is the person who first described "manic depression" and differentiated it from schizophrenia. So, indeed, Akiskal was aware of the phenomenological advantages of the concept of "manic depression" over "bipolar disorder" when he attempted to produce an all-inclusive diagonistic scheme. I am not a big fan of the fractions, though.
>
>
> - ScottScott, the white knight of big pharma lobby groups.
You really are a little naive for someone who seems quite intelligent.
I guess you have to keep believing what you believe, its what you are.
Posted by huxley on July 2, 2012, at 6:27:17
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags?, posted by huxley on July 2, 2012, at 6:08:14
in the 90s there was a 40-fold increase in the diagnoses of children with bi-polar disorder.
new found diagnostic awareness?
Believe it if you want to.
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 6:58:09
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags?, posted by huxley on July 2, 2012, at 6:08:14
> > You and this article are about 12 years too late.
> >
> > If anything, the diagnosis of BP is now on the decline and seeking a level more representative of the actual occurrence of the disorder.
> >
> > I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
> >
> > * Emil Kraeplin (1856 - 1926) is the person who first described "manic depression" and differentiated it from schizophrenia. So, indeed, Akiskal was aware of the phenomenological advantages of the concept of "manic depression" over "bipolar disorder" when he attempted to produce an all-inclusive diagonistic scheme. I am not a big fan of the fractions, though.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott, the white knight of big pharma lobby groups.I can draw conclusions only from the information I am presented with. However, I must ultimately judge the sources. I just don't see conspiracy as I turn 360° all around me. That would be naive at best, and cynical at worst. Either way, I believe it is not representative of reality.
> You really are a little naive for someone who seems quite intelligent.Perhaps you are naive to my lack thereof. Actually, I can pretty much guarantee it. You really ought not to define people with having such little information about them.
> I guess you have to keep believing what you believe
I refine my beliefs moment by moment. I am a work in progress, as is most of the rest of the world.
> its what you are.
I am not what I was before I wrote this post, so how can you pin stasis on me when my being is dynamic?
Huxley, I am disappointed that you should reduce your arguments to some sort of ad hominem name-calling.
- Scott
Posted by ron1953 on July 2, 2012, at 9:23:06
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » huxley, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 6:58:09
I do not see the current marketing strategies of medications as conspiracies; I see them as typical "free market" maximizing of profit, not the least bit unlike that which is done for any other product. Trouble is, drugs and healthcare ARE NOT the same as iPhones. I'm not anti-drug, nor do I have an agenda. I am, however, very much for eyes-wide-open scrutinization of the status quo.
Posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 11:44:00
In reply to Re: @sls » johnLA, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 0:52:40
thnx scott-
i guess i am curious if i am bipolar in someway. even though i have been told by numerous docs i am not, i am wondering and curious because i have heard that this could be one reason a person labeled w/unipolar depression does not respond to antidepressants.
or, now that the last 2 years of my life have been what they are i might just be looking at the my past and 'seeing' things that may or may not lead me to believe that maybe i should talk to my current doc about all this bipolar stuff.
i know that i am not classic bipolar 1. but, so much talk about stretching-out the spectrum makes me wonder about my diagnosis.
my longest term pdoc said bipolar takes '7 years to diagnose.' i've already lost 2 years of my life to depression. don't want to wait anymore...
thnx again for any advice/info.
john
Posted by Phil on July 2, 2012, at 12:31:24
In reply to Re: @sls, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 11:44:00
40 fold is a bit steep. Since the accepted truth about clinical diagnosis of bipolar taking 7+ years
I have to wonder how you can diagnose a child at 7yo.
Pumping a kid full of the stuff I take should only be done if there is absolutely no doubt. Even then, it should be done after every non-med solution is explored.
I didn't know the numbers on this and it doesn't fly.
That's like a 40 fold increase in street drugs. You know, a public health emergency.
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 13:22:22
In reply to Re: @sls, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 11:44:00
> my longest term pdoc said bipolar takes '7 years to diagnose.' i've already lost 2 years of my life to depression. don't want to wait anymore...
I'm sure that no one here wants you to wait either. Waiting sucks. The time spent in depression is thievery.
Bipolar disorder has traditionally been thought to begin at an earlier age than unipolar depression - usually in adolescence. (This may be more closely studied for bipolar-I). Of course, some people are going to fall outside the thick part of the bell-shaped curve. There is very little interest in late-life onset bipolar disorder. I really don't know what the most current thought is on this. It is probably true that people with bipolar disorder are resistant to therapy using exclusively antidepressant drugs. However, I have to believe that treatment resistance can be found in unipolar disorder as well. Is there such a thing as bipolar disorder for which depression is the only presenting mood state? I believe that there is. This actually best described me for many years. It was only when I experienced a manic reaction to a combination of TCA and MAOI that a diagnosis of bipolar became obvious.
-----------------------------------------
Gerald Klerman schema:THE BIPOLAR SPECTRUM
BIPOLAR I: Both mania and major depression
BIPOLAR II: Major depression and hypomania
BIPOLAR III: Cyclothymia. Mild depression and hypomania
BIPOLAR IV: Depression and usually no mania. Mania may be triggered by some antidepressants.
BIPOLAR V: Depression and no mania. Some blood relatives have had mania
BIPOLAR VI: Mania and no depression
-----------------------------------------At what age did you experience your first prodromal depressive symptoms?
Depressed mood
Melancholic thoughts
Suicidal thoughts
Insomnia
Irritability
Rage
Aggression
Anxiety
Loss of interest
Loss of energy
Social inhibition
Cognitive or memory impairments
Loss of sex drive
Loss of motivation
Dry mouth
Constipation
Blurred VisionHave you combined Abilify + Lamictal + Wellbutrin yet?
- Scott
Posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 14:20:42
In reply to Re: @sls » johnLA, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 13:22:22
At what age did you experience your first prodromal depressive symptoms?
Depressed mood
Melancholic thoughts
Suicidal thoughts
Insomnia
Irritability
Rage
Aggression
Anxiety
Loss of interest
Loss of energy
Social inhibition
Cognitive or memory impairments
Loss of sex drive
Loss of motivation
Dry mouth
Constipation
Blurred VisionHave you combined Abilify + Lamictal + Wellbutrin yet?
scott- really need to send you a bit of cash. no kidding. i suffer from some of the above. respond when and if you have the time and energy.
depressed mood; possibly in my early 40's. i had several minor health issues that added-up i believe to lower my energy. loss of smell being the biggest issue. didn't know it at the time, but this condition has a high-rate of depression associated with it. also, my solitude turned to loneliness after my last relationship at 44.
melancholic thoughts; when my brain switched one day after a final straw stressor in 2010. i was 47.
suicidal thoughts; within g a few weeks of that fateful day in 2010. never ever in my life did i even remotely think about suicide. a buddy of mine and i even made it a goal to live to 100! how arrogant and naive.
insomnia; again, started in 2010. i have had sleep problems due to mild sleep apnea. but, i always liked my sleep. and naps too.
irritability, rage, aggression; just not in my nature. no fights or arrests in my life. i've had a few 'melt-downs', but no yelling or physical stuff. in fact, i've been described as 'too nice.' this i believe is a big part of me not getting well. i was never a fighter, even though i was always very athletic (football and basketball) and pretty good at both. i think i need to find some 'fight' in me to beat this thing. again, don't think i have it in me.
anxiety; ah! now this where i realize i may have had a bit of an anxiety issue my whole life and just never realized it until i educated myself on mental stuff. very strong anxiety issues on my mom's side. as well as depression. no bi-polar really. but, many of my mom's side self-medicated their anxiety. but! i believe anxiety can be good if it is not debilitating. it kept me motivated and on my toes in many areas of my life.
loss of interest; 2 years ago at 47. that would be in all things. though again, i believe a mild depression may have been around for several years before.
loss of energy; i was still kicking *ss at the gym right-up to 2010. though once again, i was having health issues that were slowing me down; loss of smell, asthma, hip replaced, torn achilles surgery, back surgery. and, seemingly getting chronic bronchitis more and more as i got into my 40's. but, me being glued to my bed did not start until 2010, though i always spent a lot of time in bed. was my 'safe' place. read very much, in bed, before my depression started.
social inhibition; 2010 when severe depression started. though i was spending more and more time alone after that last relationship. movies alone, meals alone. traveling alone. but, spending everyday w/200+ teenagers really makes you like 'quiet' time.
cognitive/memory issues; never until 2010.
loss of sex drive; didn't realize it, but when i lost my sense of smell. early 40's. now, very low libido since 2010. by the way, this is the one item on bipolar tests that i check-off. i was always very sexually active. very impulsive in this area from teens to late 30's. though i did have a few long-term relationships where i was faithful. never married. big part of my depression.
loss of motivation; 2010 severely. again, possibly a bit earlier on a much much smaller scale.
dry mouth; 2010. only when i started psych meds!
constipation; absolutely never. :)
blurred vision; only when i spend many hours on the computer and i start falling asleep.
i have not tried that drug combo. i did try wellbutrin for a few days and my anxiety shot thru the roof. i was very energized. too much though. my face was bright red. my doc told me to stop after about 4 days. my new pdoc wants me to start on a baby dose of 37.5mg and slowly titrate-up. i might do that if my ketamine deal doesn't work. though i was on a pretty small dose the first time of wellbutrin (100mg) and really did not feel well.
he also loves abilify and continues to push that a bit.
i see him tomorrow. i'll ask about this combo.
my biggest issues right now are ruminating thoughts, suicidal thoughts, anhedonia, and no desire to get out of bed and out of the house.
so, am i bipolar and more importantly is there hope for me? ;)
again, that is quite a intake of info scott. please don't feel obligated to respond.
if you do, the check is in the mail like i said.
thanks again for your generosity.
john
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2012, at 20:20:17
In reply to check is in the mail. i swear!, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 14:20:42
John to me since I have also had the losses you have and others as well. Anxiety as a kid but due to never knowing what was going to meet me at home. And enraged Mother who was sick, the ambulence taking her away for an addrenal crisis. But I know I am not bipolar. And wellbutrin did the same to me. Others on this board as well have found it just too stimulating a med for those prone to anxiety. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 21:33:33
In reply to check is in the mail. i swear!, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 14:20:42
Hi John.
> i have not tried that drug combo. i did try wellbutrin for a few days and my anxiety shot thru the roof. i was very energized. too much though. my face was bright red. my doc told me to stop after about 4 days. my new pdoc wants me to start on a baby dose of 37.5mg and slowly titrate-up. i might do that if my ketamine deal doesn't work. though i was on a pretty small dose the first time of wellbutrin (100mg) and really did not feel well.
You would probably do best to avoid Wellbutrin, then. I guess that's a no-brainer. Some people do well taking only Lamictal + Abilify without any other psychotropics. However, I don't know to what extent this might be exclusive to a bipolar diathesis. It might be useful in unipolar depression as well.
What has been your experience with MAOIs?
From what you have written, and in this layman's point of view, I don't see bipolarity. I do, however, see a major mental illness - probably major depressive disorder - that has temporarily debilitated you and stifled your personal growth.
Please take note of my lack of education and clinical experience. I wish I knew more. I wish I were able to be of greater help.
- Scott
Posted by jane d on July 3, 2012, at 2:10:59
In reply to check is in the mail. i swear!, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 14:20:42
>insomnia; again, started in 2010. i have had sleep problems due to mild sleep apnea. but, i always liked my sleep. and naps too
Forgive me if you've already answered this. Is your apnea well treated? It may not be the whole story but if untreated it's enough to keep other treatments from working.
Posted by huxley on July 3, 2012, at 2:34:12
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » huxley, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 6:58:09
> > > You and this article are about 12 years too late.
> > >
> > > If anything, the diagnosis of BP is now on the decline and seeking a level more representative of the actual occurrence of the disorder.
> > >
> > > I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
> > >
> > > * Emil Kraeplin (1856 - 1926) is the person who first described "manic depression" and differentiated it from schizophrenia. So, indeed, Akiskal was aware of the phenomenological advantages of the concept of "manic depression" over "bipolar disorder" when he attempted to produce an all-inclusive diagonistic scheme. I am not a big fan of the fractions, though.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Scott, the white knight of big pharma lobby groups.
>
> I can draw conclusions only from the information I am presented with. However, I must ultimately judge the sources. I just don't see conspiracy as I turn 360° all around me. That would be naive at best, and cynical at worst. Either way, I believe it is not representative of reality.
>
> > You really are a little naive for someone who seems quite intelligent.
>
> Perhaps you are naive to my lack thereof. Actually, I can pretty much guarantee it. You really ought not to define people with having such little information about them.
>
> > I guess you have to keep believing what you believe
>
> I refine my beliefs moment by moment. I am a work in progress, as is most of the rest of the world.
>
> > its what you are.
>
> I am not what I was before I wrote this post, so how can you pin stasis on me when my being is dynamic?
>
> Huxley, I am disappointed that you should reduce your arguments to some sort of ad hominem name-calling.
>
>
> - Scott
>Anyone that dismissed the increase in BP diagnosis as propaganda is a little naive in my books. Sorry if you find that offensive, wasn't my intention to insult you.
What you say is insensitive to people who have been incorrectly diagnosed as bipolar and been prescribed medications that has left them permanently ill.
Posted by SLS on July 3, 2012, at 5:32:51
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags?, posted by huxley on July 3, 2012, at 2:34:12
> > > > You and this article are about 12 years too late.
> > > >
> > > > If anything, the diagnosis of BP is now on the decline and seeking a level more representative of the actual occurrence of the disorder.
> > > >
> > > > I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
> > > >
> > > > * Emil Kraeplin (1856 - 1926) is the person who first described "manic depression" and differentiated it from schizophrenia. So, indeed, Akiskal was aware of the phenomenological advantages of the concept of "manic depression" over "bipolar disorder" when he attempted to produce an all-inclusive diagonistic scheme. I am not a big fan of the fractions, though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Scott, the white knight of big pharma lobby groups.
> >
> > I can draw conclusions only from the information I am presented with. However, I must ultimately judge the sources. I just don't see conspiracy as I turn 360° all around me. That would be naive at best, and cynical at worst. Either way, I believe it is not representative of reality.
> >
> > > You really are a little naive for someone who seems quite intelligent.
> >
> > Perhaps you are naive to my lack thereof. Actually, I can pretty much guarantee it. You really ought not to define people with having such little information about them.
> >
> > > I guess you have to keep believing what you believe
> >
> > I refine my beliefs moment by moment. I am a work in progress, as is most of the rest of the world.
> >
> > > its what you are.
> >
> > I am not what I was before I wrote this post, so how can you pin stasis on me when my being is dynamic?
> >
> > Huxley, I am disappointed that you should reduce your arguments to some sort of ad hominem name-calling.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Anyone that dismissed the increase in BP diagnosis as propaganda is a little naive in my books.
No. I dismissed nothing. It's just that the increase (explosion) in bipolar disorder diagnoses happened at least a decade ago. It is old news. I feel that BD was grossly overdiagnosed back then and for several years to follow. Neurontin was being prescribed to nearly everyone. I saw this happen at a PH program. It seemed like a fad amongst doctors to do this. I don't think BD is so much overdiagnosed right now as it is misconceptualized. I tend to steer towards Kraeplin using a Klerman-type schema.I would say that pediatric bipolar disorder was very much underdiagnosed up until recently. Perhaps it still is. It just doesn't look the same as adult BD. It is not very popular right now to acknowledge these things.
- Scott
Posted by johnLA on July 3, 2012, at 10:21:46
In reply to Re: check is in the mail. i swear! » johnLA, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 21:33:33
thanks for your reply scott.
i know you are not a doc. still, i was very curious as to what you thought.
appreciate you taking the time to look over that history of mine.
i have not tried a maoi. maybe down the road. like i have mentioned all over this board my goal is to get to 25 july and down to san diego and try that ketamine infusion deal. if that does not work i'll be crushed emotionally, but will search for something else.
i will say this; not being on a antidepressant right now has not been all bad. weight is back to normal, hideous dry mouth is gone, and the too real dreams are slowly diminishing.
thanks again for your thoughts on my situation.
john
Posted by johnLA on July 3, 2012, at 10:35:47
In reply to Re: check is in the mail. i swear! » johnLA, posted by jane d on July 3, 2012, at 2:10:59
hi jane. :)
you might be right on the sleep apnea deal. i am having a full physical on 20 july and will ask about this w/my primary doc. maybe another sleep study is in order.
i have several minor health issues that i really believe are a big part of the foundation of my depression not getting better. bummer.
ironically the last antidepressant i was on, remeron, is sometimes rx'd for sleep apnea! initially on remeron i slept better than i had for years. that's the only thing i miss about that drug.
i have nasal obstruction due to nasal polyps. so, if i was to get a sleep apnea machine it would be like something the space shuttle astronauts where. no lie. absolutely brutal. not sure i could deal with that. still, maybe i should try it and see what happens.
thanks for your thoughts.
john
ps thnx for your message about chat. absolutely no problem there. hope we can talk soon. have a great 4th jane.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on July 3, 2012, at 20:22:27
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » huxley, posted by SLS on July 3, 2012, at 5:32:51
the pharma companies advertise average feelings of sadness that back in the 1940's where consideredd basically normal conditions. If you take a look in the 1950's in their advertisements for drugs for anxiety and mental tension, they advertised barbiturates, meprobamate, dexedrine, and the new antipsychotic medications that where released in the 1950's and where used for average day problems. People went and still go to their doctor and descibe feeling sad, or nervous over things that are suppost to be felt. These advertising drugs to cover up things that are suppost to be normal to the human psyche, but people don't want to deal with reality. The docs can be vary big enablers...precibe narcotics, everything and see nothing what they are doing is wrong or not ethical. Its been happening for about 60 years now. It started with the Miltown advertisements for stay at home moms who got nervous when their kids woulndt shut up. You get what I'm saying?
anyways, i shouldnt really be hypocritical because I do seek out other substances to numb bad consequnces that have happened to me...
anyways....yea it will happen in the future, they will just modify it into terms that make it look new again.
rj
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2012, at 20:29:13
In reply to @sls, posted by johnLA on July 3, 2012, at 10:21:46
John so you are saying you feel better off ad's? How did you wean off them? Phillipa
Posted by Phil on July 3, 2012, at 21:23:01
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags?, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on July 3, 2012, at 20:22:27
Not sure normal covers vegetative depression or psychotic mania or even crippling anxiety or PTSD but hey, at least we wouldn't have to take a pill.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on July 3, 2012, at 22:57:58
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Phil on July 3, 2012, at 21:23:01
Yea Phil....like what I think was really someone who needed these medications was people in state hosptitals that have no ooncept of reality, they can't cope in the real world. But if you think about it...the pharma companies have used their label conditions to relate to average people to take a certain drug so it would be more nation wie spread and more money for them. That's why you see all these abilify, seroquel, cymbatla commericals....but don't get me wrong because their is alot of people who do need these medications. It's just picular that its become almost a fad to take medication...just doesnt seem right to me...
like the person that can't relax goes to doctor in the 1950's and usally gets prescibed Miltown until Librium and Valium hit...you will see all these advertisements of advertising these tranqulizers both minor and major for stress related to normal day life situations. It's just so wide spread since 60 years ago when medical illness because a more awareness to society.
Anyways that's it for me:) by the way thanks for the response...
rj
Posted by huxley on July 5, 2012, at 5:43:12
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » huxley, posted by SLS on July 3, 2012, at 5:32:51
> > > > > You and this article are about 12 years too late.
> > > > >
> > > > > If anything, the diagnosis of BP is now on the decline and seeking a level more representative of the actual occurrence of the disorder.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't usually bother with this type of stuff anymore when it is posted. I find it to be nothing more than propaganda to fit an agenda, which, of course, is an irony. One thing though, it is NOT the entire field of psychiatry that uses the fractional naming schema for categorizing bipolar disorder subtypes. It is the naming system of one doctor only - Hagop Akiskal (a devotee of Kraeplin*). His nomenclature has not been embraced by psychiatry in general, despite the fact that much of his work has been very important. The article you cited portrays as fact that Akiskal's naming system is already in general use. This is false. I find the rest of the article to be equally representative of the truth.
> > > > >
> > > > > * Emil Kraeplin (1856 - 1926) is the person who first described "manic depression" and differentiated it from schizophrenia. So, indeed, Akiskal was aware of the phenomenological advantages of the concept of "manic depression" over "bipolar disorder" when he attempted to produce an all-inclusive diagonistic scheme. I am not a big fan of the fractions, though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > > Scott, the white knight of big pharma lobby groups.
> > >
> > > I can draw conclusions only from the information I am presented with. However, I must ultimately judge the sources. I just don't see conspiracy as I turn 360° all around me. That would be naive at best, and cynical at worst. Either way, I believe it is not representative of reality.
> > >
> > > > You really are a little naive for someone who seems quite intelligent.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you are naive to my lack thereof. Actually, I can pretty much guarantee it. You really ought not to define people with having such little information about them.
> > >
> > > > I guess you have to keep believing what you believe
> > >
> > > I refine my beliefs moment by moment. I am a work in progress, as is most of the rest of the world.
> > >
> > > > its what you are.
> > >
> > > I am not what I was before I wrote this post, so how can you pin stasis on me when my being is dynamic?
> > >
> > > Huxley, I am disappointed that you should reduce your arguments to some sort of ad hominem name-calling.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> >
> > Anyone that dismissed the increase in BP diagnosis as propaganda is a little naive in my books.
>
>
> No. I dismissed nothing. It's just that the increase (explosion) in bipolar disorder diagnoses happened at least a decade ago. It is old news. I feel that BD was grossly overdiagnosed back then and for several years to follow. Neurontin was being prescribed to nearly everyone. I saw this happen at a PH program. It seemed like a fad amongst doctors to do this. I don't think BD is so much overdiagnosed right now as it is misconceptualized. I tend to steer towards Kraeplin using a Klerman-type schema.
>
> I would say that pediatric bipolar disorder was very much underdiagnosed up until recently. Perhaps it still is. It just doesn't look the same as adult BD. It is not very popular right now to acknowledge these things.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Scott,
apologies for being rude.
I misunderstood you.
BP misdiagnosis is a sore point for me.
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2012, at 8:04:54
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags?, posted by huxley on July 5, 2012, at 5:43:12
> > No. I dismissed nothing. It's just that the increase (explosion) in bipolar disorder diagnoses happened at least a decade ago. It is old news. I feel that BD was grossly overdiagnosed back then and for several years to follow. Neurontin was being prescribed to nearly everyone. I saw this happen at a PH program. It seemed like a fad amongst doctors to do this.
> apologies for being rude.
> I misunderstood you.
> BP misdiagnosis is a sore point for me.Depending on who you read, true bipolar disorder in the US should account for somewhere between 2-5% of cases of depression. It is probably closer to 3%. Any quotes over 5% are suspect in my book.
- Scott
Posted by chumbawumba on July 12, 2012, at 15:39:02
In reply to Re: Why There Has Been an Explosion in Bipolar Diags? » huxley, posted by SLS on July 5, 2012, at 8:04:54
I wonder if the rampant prescription of SSRI drugs has created bipolar symptoms in people who would not have otherwise qualified for the diagnosis.
I'm not saying it was deliberate. The tinfoil hat is folded away in the bottom of my crazy drawer. But prozac came out in about 1988 quickly followed by many similar drugs. Now 20 years later bipolar disorder is the diagnosis du jour. Makes you wonder.
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