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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 55 to 79 of 107. Go back in thread:
Posted by sigismund on June 29, 2012, at 1:01:02
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional » psychobot5000, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2012, at 19:06:14
The price of oil went up, maybe tripled. Interest rates here were near 20% around 1980. Military spending (Vietnam) may have had an impact, I don't know. It wasn't Carter.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 1:23:05
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional » Dinah, posted by sigismund on June 29, 2012, at 1:01:02
Hey look. If you want to think that Carter was competent or even brilliant on the economy, that's ok by me. If you like 70% tax rates, I can only wish you all the luck in the world to make enough money to be in one.
This is really outside my sphere of interest.
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2012, at 5:59:02
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional » sigismund, posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 1:23:05
I'm sure people have heard the adage regarding the difficulties involved in discussing religion or politics. I hope feelings aren't hurt nor people alienated from each other along this thread. Perhaps it would be more productive to contact your local legislator or political action committee to get your political views acknowledged and promoted. Fortunately, we have free speech, including the right to vote. Would anyone be interested in redirecting this thread to the Politics board? Perhaps it has already reached an amicable closing.
- Scott
Posted by europerep on June 29, 2012, at 7:25:22
In reply to Agreed » ron1953, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2012, at 19:14:13
> *ssh*l*.
Ah, good old hypocrisy. For some reason, probably having to do with politeness, you have to censor yourself in calling me an 'asshole', yet you have no problem to deny poor citizens of your country access to healthcare, if it would mean that you *may* lose some money in the process.
I'd also be curious about what you dislike about the way this healthcare reform was passed. Voted in through the Senate with a supermajority and the House with a majority and upheld by the US Supreme Court looks to me like the gold-standard of passing legislation. If you refer to the fact that Republican concerns weren't met by Democrats, I would remind you of everything from "death panels" to the absurd references to "socialism" as we have witnessed in this thread. You cannot negotiate with a party that rolls out that type of rhetoric to attack a piece of legislation that they themselves supported not long ago.
I will say two more things: I do actually apologize if people were offended by what I said, although I do believe that the core of what I said is true and despite the relatively strong feelings I have toward those who would deny others, potentially including me, the healthcare they need but can't pay for. Secondly, I hope people won't take my comments as blanket statements about the USA. I think the USA is a great country with lots of great people who have made the world a better place - but I am shocked not only at how radical the Tea Party ideas are, but also at how far they have made their way into the mainstream political discussion. Of course I believe in democracy and free speech, so I wouldn't want to censor anyone or anything, but I find this very worrisome nonetheless.
Posted by europerep on June 29, 2012, at 7:29:42
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed » europerep, posted by sigismund on June 29, 2012, at 0:48:09
> >This whole debate is nothing but a joke, at the expense of poor and ill American citizens.
>
> Thank you thank you thank youThank you :)
You're always the much calmer participant in discussions, and you make *excellent* points all the time. I'll get there too one day ;)
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 8:57:15
In reply to Re: Agreed » Dinah, posted by europerep on June 29, 2012, at 7:25:22
You misunderstand. Everything.
Including why I said what I said to Ron. I have no reason to call you anything at this point. Keep insulting me, and I will keep being completely indifferent to your opinion of me. I know my feelings, and I don't need to accept your stereotypes of me. You know, I know few people who really oppose stereotyping. They only care who they stereotype.
What I detest is seeing people being unkind to others. Oddly enough, even if those others are completely indifferent to the rudeness.
Not enough people, in my opinion, give a d*mn about what they see in front of them. Apparently different people have different ideas of what compassion ought to be. Oddly enough, I don't think it's compassionate to accuse others of posting unqualified b*llsh*t. Or of endorsing such statements.
Keep it up against me. Wanna call me any other names? Want to think I belong to the tea party? Go right ahead. You are so far off the mark, it can't touch me.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 8:59:12
In reply to Unofficial Please Be Civil » europerep, posted by iforgotmypassword on June 28, 2012, at 21:43:13
You were far nicer than I was.
I was upset.
I honor you.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 9:04:17
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional, posted by SLS on June 29, 2012, at 5:59:02
I certainly have no desire to continue discussing politics on Babble. I was one of the prime advocates of the Politics board, if Dr. Bob wouldn't completely outlaw political discussions.
I was upset, both for reasons of my own and because of the comments made to both me and Phillipa, and allowed myself to be reactive. I apologize to you and to those other babblers who also dislike seeing Politics on the main boards.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 9:07:08
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional, posted by SLS on June 29, 2012, at 5:59:02
Incidentally, writing legislators, I find, is an amusing experience. Very few answer with anything other than reiterations of their own firmly held positions.
Just like everyone else in the world.
Posted by gadchik on June 29, 2012, at 9:09:26
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional, posted by SLS on June 29, 2012, at 5:59:02
Scott, I got into it over this with my good friend and neighbor. I sure regret it,now Im feeling aggravated and dont want to talk with her anymore.
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2012, at 10:05:12
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed » Phillipa, posted by SLS on June 28, 2012, at 23:56:11
Scott I did too it's very complex especially when you read the history of it. I merely used the term applied to the reform that was used in another forum. Whether the term is correct or not I guess time will tell. Until then I bow out of this thread which I did start seemed to instant response from neighbors and others was instant panic. My next door neighbor has a history of causing this in me and others since she is a recently retired teacher. And was shocked to find out her medicaire was taking money for medical from her monthly payment. Although it's off the subject line did she expect to now get all for nothing? No it doesn't work that way. Lucky her between her SSRI and teachers disability she brings in over $2000 in SSRI and over $1400 in Teachers pay. How it works with Teachers no idea. She continues to have Blue Cross Blue Shield also. So what she complains about I don't know would gladly change places with her. Many changes will occur once Congress resumes in the Fall also from what I was told. Oh as for watching TV as another poster said. I don't watch TV as find it boring. All my info comes from RN newsletters and what I hear on the radio. Will be out of town today at temps climbing to l07. Please post any further news and developments as I need as others to know all the real facts not hype. And if the term socialism is or was wrong than my humble apologies. Phillipa
Posted by Phil on June 29, 2012, at 11:36:32
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed » SLS, posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2012, at 10:05:12
Socialism is bad if this was socialism. If it means having to help the disenfranchised and downtrodden. I guess all the rich people haven't quite solved that issue on a voluntary basis. Why, we should take care of them more like our returning soldiers from useless wars. Wait, we don't take very good care of them either, at least the ones who haven;t committed suicide, yet.
Or, give the responders to 9/11 the great treatment they deserved. Oh, wait a minute, we didn't take care of them either.
Republican has come to mean Christian in my mind, right wing nuts in many cases. I wonder if Jesus and his disciples would walk by those with nothing and instead of helping them would have said, you are on welfare, get a job.
Personally I'm waiting for determination from SSDI for disability. After working for 46 years I have to beg for the money I put in. I'll live 15% above the poverty line with no Medicare for two years. I see no help on the way and if I can't figure something out, will living be worth it?
There are a lot of problems in this country and both parties are to blame. But I have to think that if the right wing zealots had their way, there would be no social services of any kind. Texas has robbed education blind for example.
I don't like or trust any politician but I have to pick my poison. It won't be the talker out of both sides of his mouth Romney who made his fortune putting people out of jobs which is considered a good businessman. Romney says this deal is bad but did it first in his home state.
I have a quickly dwindling set of Replublican friends and I never talk politics with them. I can't get a word in edgewise. They are too busy talking about pure hatred of Obama with blatant racism overtones. Sad really, they are intelligent people, they just hate everyone's guts. And the few left I see very little reason to continue as friends.
Maybe if we cut government waste 20%...$$$. Maybe stop the unwinnable wars with countries that have very little way of visiting us. Cut defense spending 30% over ten years and stop building billion dollar aircraft carriers, jets, etc. Then balance the budget like a *gasp* tax and spend Democrat did.
Maybe quit sending aid to some countries when our people are starving.
Insurance for government. I worked for state government for peanuts and the company line was...but the benefits are great. There, I didn't work for money, I worked for insurance.
I think this program will be better. I mean, who in their right mind thinks that what we have now is good?
This is a disjointed post but that's the way my mind works. At least today. Whether all my facts are right or not, we can solve this countries problems. But we'll never do sh*t if each party votes against each other because that's how they see their job instead of working together. It was a conservative in the Supreme Court that cast the deciding vote. He didn't say it was a good plan, rather it was constitutional. Still, it took guts, something our leaders are sorely lacking.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:02:33
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed, posted by Phil on June 29, 2012, at 11:36:32
Maybe if both sides would refrain from insulting each other, people would be able to keep friends. If people acknowledged that those on the other side had concerns, and were open to considering the legitimacy of those concerns, maybe dialog would be possible. I appreciate your understanding that neither side is innocent of partisanship. However, is it necessary to characterize Republicans as full of hate? Isn't that a bit of a generalization? It's been my observation and opinion that extremists on both sides have more in common with each other than they do with those who aren't extremists. Perhaps you only know Republicans who are extremists. Certainly the extremists on both sides tend to garner the most attention.
It's also possible that your Republican friends are frightened rather than hate filled. I remember thinking that about liberals after Bush was elected.
I agree about Jesus. His positions called for pretty radical action. I used to find those "WWJD" merchandise sold at the mall rather amusing, considering Jesus' position on those who have two coats.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:10:03
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional, posted by emmanuel98 on June 28, 2012, at 21:00:05
> I get angry at how little most people know, yet how much they think they know.
For example, had you said that you thought Carter was too harshly judged for the bad economy in his time, and explained why, that would be one thing.
Instead you said the above.
I hate unregulated boards.
Posted by Iansf on June 29, 2012, at 12:10:10
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2012, at 17:25:11
> I have always been in favor of doing away with Medicaid in most cases for healthy enough individuals, and helping families pay for insurance. I'm rather skeptical of the ability of government to provide decent services in an efficient manner.
>Medicare is far more efficient than private insurance. The latter spends close to 40% of revenues on administration, advertising, public relations and related functions. Medicare spends 93% of its budget on services. The truism that private business is more efficient than government is false. It's a scam to make people distrust government.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:15:45
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed, posted by Iansf on June 29, 2012, at 12:10:10
I disagree, but I've already apologized for talking politics here and am not going to get into specifics.
I do appreciate that you weren't rude.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:23:44
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional, posted by emmanuel98 on June 28, 2012, at 21:00:05
And I brought that up mainly because I have esteem for you and can be hurt by your words. And don't, of course, wish to feel negatively towards someone I do have esteem for.
Posted by zazenducke on June 29, 2012, at 12:32:30
In reply to Re: Welcome USA To Socialism Healthcare Bill Passed » Iansf, posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:15:45
Well here's one theory......Please don't call me any asterisked words. I'm so terribly sensitive you know.
When the Gallup pollsters asked Americans what they thought about their own mental health, they were intrigued by the difference between Democrats and Republicans.While 58 percent of Republicans reported having excellent mental health, only 38 percent of Democrats described themselves that way.
The study was no surprise to Dr. Lyle H. Rossiter, a veteran psychiatrist and author of a controversial book that makes the clinical case liberalism is a mental illness.
Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded, says Rossiter, author of The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness. Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave.
While political activists on the other side of the spectrum have made similar observations, Rossiter boasts professional credentials and a life virtually free of activism and links to the vast right-wing conspiracy.
For more than 35 years he has diagnosed and treated more than 1,500 patients as a board-certified clinical psychiatrist and examined more than 2,700 civil and criminal cases as a board-certified forensic psychiatrist. He received his medical and psychiatric training at the University of Chicago.Rossiter says the kind of liberalism being displayed by both Barack Obama and his Democratic primary opponent Hillary Clinton can only be understood as a psychological disorder.
A social scientist who understands human nature will not dismiss the vital roles of free choice, voluntary cooperation and moral integrity as liberals do, he says. A political leader who understands human nature will not ignore individual differences in talent, drive, personal appeal and work ethic, and then try to impose economic and social equality on the population as liberals do. And a legislator who understands human nature will not create an environment of rules which over-regulates and over-taxes the nations citizens, corrupts their character and reduces them to wards of the state as liberals do.
Dr. Rossiter says the liberal agenda preys on weakness and feelings of inferiority in the population by:
creating and reinforcing perceptions of victimization;
satisfying infantile claims to entitlement, indulgence and compensation;
augmenting primitive feelings of envy;
rejecting the sovereignty of the individual, subordinating him to the will of the government.The roots of liberalism and its associated madness can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind, he says. When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious.
By the way, the Gallup poll conducted late last year also found only 43 percent of independents describe themselves as in excellent mental health. While Rossiter thinks he understands the discrepancy in the state of mental health between Democrats and Republicans, the Gallup pollsters could only scratch their heads.
The reason the relationship exists between being a Republican and more positive mental health is unknown, and one cannot say whether something about being a Republican causes a person to be more mentally healthy or whether something about being mentally healthy causes a person to choose to become a Republican, the study concluded.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:37:32
In reply to Why are so many Babblers liberals?, posted by zazenducke on June 29, 2012, at 12:32:30
There are also studies that characterize conservatives as mentally ill.
All studies of the sort make me very uneasy. I doubt it's possible to make such broad characterizations.
There are so many ways to get to a destination.
Posted by zazenducke on June 29, 2012, at 12:41:23
In reply to Re: Why are so many Babblers liberals? » zazenducke, posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:37:32
Thanks for not calling me names. I believe you are quite mentally ill if that makes you feel better :)
But I have often noticed a kind of kneejerk liberalism on this board and wondered which came first.
Posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:50:54
In reply to Re: Why are so many Babblers liberals?, posted by zazenducke on June 29, 2012, at 12:41:23
Thank you. :)
I always thought it might be self selection. One might feel uncomfortable as a conservative, or even a moderate. That was the reason I wished Dr. Bob would ban discussions of Politics. The rhetoric after the Bush election (can't recall which one) made me feel that Babble was not a place I could be.
Do most mental health sites lean liberal?
I daresay feelings run high in this particular topic because among the mentally ill might be a higher percentage of unemployed or underemployed (or who recognize the danger) who are frightened by the lack of health insurance. Just as a lot of my initial distress was caused by the fact that I was going to have to decide which health care I would have to continue. I can't afford to pay more, and am not so well off I don't cry when I hear of an additional expense. So I do understand. One reason I don't oppose the bill in its entirety is that I realize that it could happen to anyone, no matter how careful and responsible they are.
So perhaps in this case, there's more involved than liberal bias.
Posted by 10derheart on June 29, 2012, at 13:20:09
In reply to Re: Healthcare Bill Deemed Constitutional » SLS, posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 9:04:17
FYI, I asked Dr. Bob to move it. Asked very errrr....passionately.
However, this is at least the 10th request/question (lost count) over the past several months I've made to him and I've received ZERO responses, on or off boards.
I presently consider Babble 100% unmoderated.
I suppose that brings pleasure to some, but not me.
Posted by ron1953 on June 29, 2012, at 13:23:17
In reply to Re: Why are so many Babblers liberals? » zazenducke, posted by Dinah on June 29, 2012, at 12:50:54
The polarity and variety of positions regarding this legislation, and the very emotionally-charged aspects of same, are to me pretty good clues as to why truly effective legislation rarely, if ever, is enacted. Attitudes are so different, that it's a sure bet that no matter what is legislated, 50% will like it and 50% will hate it. It's frustrating.
Posted by ron1953 on June 29, 2012, at 13:33:57
In reply to Lack Of Consensus, posted by ron1953 on June 29, 2012, at 13:23:17
After all this debate, I'll bet that not one person involved has changed their mind.
It's all kinda silly if you really think about it.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on June 29, 2012, at 14:00:25
In reply to Re: Why are so many Babblers liberals?, posted by zazenducke on June 29, 2012, at 12:41:23
> Thanks for not calling me names. I believe you are quite mentally ill if that makes you feel better :)
>Ha ha ha ha ha
Consensus!> But I have often noticed a kind of kneejerk liberalism on this board and wondered which came first.
Uh... politics. Not mental health care.
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