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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by brklyn2311 on May 23, 2012, at 3:06:56
Two facts i found out about the drug and can be verified with a simple google search are,
Klonopin aside from a anti anxiety agent,is also a powerful mood stablizer.
Klonopin is used by some body builders as like ghb it releases natural gh,growth hormone which is crucial to growing strong muscles fast.
Posted by Novelagent on May 23, 2012, at 7:36:03
In reply to Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by brklyn2311 on May 23, 2012, at 3:06:56
an opinion is not a fact. Meatheads do not go to psychopharmacology classes, and are the last people to trust on scientific matters. They're all full of it. They also think anything under the sun enhances libido or causes muscle. We like to have a little more critical skepticism on this board, and do not post heresy and conjecture.
They just make stuff up. It's easier for meatheads to make stuff up than to read studies. They're not readers.
> Two facts i found out about the drug and can be verified with a simple google search are,
>
> Klonopin aside from a anti anxiety agent,is also a powerful mood stablizer.
>
> Klonopin is used by some body builders as like ghb it releases natural gh,growth hormone which is crucial to growing strong muscles fast.
Posted by Phil on May 23, 2012, at 8:05:57
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by Novelagent on May 23, 2012, at 7:36:03
Posted by Phil on May 23, 2012, at 8:22:00
In reply to Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by brklyn2311 on May 23, 2012, at 3:06:56
> Klonopin aside from a anti anxiety agent,is also a powerful mood stablizer.
>
> Klonopin is used by some body builders as like ghb it releases natural gh,growth hormone which is crucial to growing strong muscles fast.I'm not a go to guy on meds but I've heard that Klonopin has some mood stabilization properties but it's not a 'powerful' stabilizer.
Not sure on the body builder thing. I've read some on their sites and just found some ridiculously bad info. BB also self-administer T3 with other BB as a guide. I'm convinced that they would eat dog sh*t if they felt they could get .000000001% improvement.
Posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 9:07:11
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » brklyn2311, posted by Phil on May 23, 2012, at 8:22:00
my pdoc told me that klonopin is a mild mood stabilizer.
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2012, at 10:48:42
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 9:07:11
Also used for seizures in doses up to 20mg. P
Posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 10:49:26
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by Novelagent on May 23, 2012, at 7:36:03
There is some evidence out there pointing to it being correct.
This is in rats though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1326109
> an opinion is not a fact. Meatheads do not go to psychopharmacology classes, and are the last people to trust on scientific matters. They're all full of it. They also think anything under the sun enhances libido or causes muscle. We like to have a little more critical skepticism on this board, and do not post heresy and conjecture.
>
> They just make stuff up. It's easier for meatheads to make stuff up than to read studies. They're not readers.
>
> > Two facts i found out about the drug and can be verified with a simple google search are,
> >
> > Klonopin aside from a anti anxiety agent,is also a powerful mood stablizer.
> >
> > Klonopin is used by some body builders as like ghb it releases natural gh,growth hormone which is crucial to growing strong muscles fast.
>
>
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 23, 2012, at 10:52:08
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » Novelagent, posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 10:49:26
Its good for mania in conjunction with an atypical antipsychotic. Mild mood stabilizer, good anti-anxiety+anti-agitation action, plus it helps reduce the dose of the antipsychotic necessary to get things under control.
Posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 11:46:55
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » Novelagent, posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 10:49:26
Viper,what is that study really saying? I dont understand it.Every time I read one of those,I get more confused!
Posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 11:48:16
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2012, at 10:48:42
that's what I always remember about k,that some take 20mg daily for seizure control,so my 1/2mg shouldnt be worried over like i do.
Posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 13:43:58
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » viper1431, posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 11:46:55
I'ts basically found during studies in rats than klonopin has been found to cause an increase in human growth hormone. And that low growth hormone may be a factor in anxiety.
it also seems to say that it increases Luteinizing hormone but takes a higher dose of klonopin for it to be really effective.. from what i understand Luteinizing hormone causes increases in testosterone in men.. so i can see why bodybuilders are interested..
> Viper,what is that study really saying? I dont understand it.Every time I read one of those,I get more confused!
Posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 14:15:04
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » gadchik, posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 13:43:58
Posted by brklyn2311 on May 23, 2012, at 14:29:21
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by Novelagent on May 23, 2012, at 7:36:03
What is it with you,you seem to have problem wit me
anyone the info as i stated was not myy opinion but fact according to doucmentation.statement one,
Other anticonvulsants are now being used as mood stabilizers
experimentally. Also, Klonopin (an anti-anxiety drug which is also an
anti-convulsant) may be used as a mood stabilizer.THIS IS JUST ONE RANDOM SIGHT YOU CAN FIND MORE.
LINK TO SOURCEhttp://stason.org/TULARC/health/mind/depression-bipolar-disorder/4-4-3-Mood-Stabilizers.html
Posted by herpills on May 23, 2012, at 15:38:24
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by gadchik on May 23, 2012, at 9:07:11
> my pdoc told me that klonopin is a mild mood stabilizer.
I had a former pdoc who said the exact same thing. herpills
Posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 7:42:10
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » Novelagent, posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 10:49:26
A body builder -would- think a rat is a mini person, and pretend they can draw immediate conclusions and simply assume things from it.
It reminds me of how people reading memantine studies that say it causes "reverse tolerance," not know the phenomonenon of reverse tolerance in the context of amphetamine use, and thinks it reads "reverses tolerance." These people then conclude from studies they can't read basic terms from that it "reverses" tolerance, and take it thinking tolerance will go away (tolerance that typically exists mainly in their head).
And that's relatively educated people. Imagine what absurd translations occur in the minds of a bodybuilder! Trying to extrapolate from rat studies! These people can't even spell extrapolate, or understand how everything with animals requires all sorts of creative, loose assumptions dependent on one another in a chance of creative hunches that could very well be sh*t. And that's assuming they're mini, fuzzy humans with similar results-- which they're not.
People forget that mental illness is usually self-reported-- having forced swim tests, etc. are just creative hunches. I had a psychopharmacology professor always doing studes in rats using GABAergic drugs like Gabitril to treat cocaine addiction in rats.
Here's why it would work: rats push levers when they're bored, and when you make them less agitated and not care, they're less likely to press the lever that increases their dose. That DOESN'T mean Gabitril is going to treat a coke addict. They've cured rats all the time of cocaine addiction because of this. Give a cokehead a Valium, and they will not care, but they'll still do coke. Bodybuilders aren't going to figure this out if a psychopharmacology professor hasn't yet.
> There is some evidence out there pointing to it being correct.
> This is in rats though.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1326109
>
>
> > an opinion is not a fact. Meatheads do not go to psychopharmacology classes, and are the last people to trust on scientific matters. They're all full of it. They also think anything under the sun enhances libido or causes muscle. We like to have a little more critical skepticism on this board, and do not post heresy and conjecture.
> >
> > They just make stuff up. It's easier for meatheads to make stuff up than to read studies. They're not readers.
> >
> > > Two facts i found out about the drug and can be verified with a simple google search are,
> > >
> > > Klonopin aside from a anti anxiety agent,is also a powerful mood stablizer.
> > >
> > > Klonopin is used by some body builders as like ghb it releases natural gh,growth hormone which is crucial to growing strong muscles fast.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 7:53:09
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by Christ_empowered on May 23, 2012, at 10:52:08
CE, be careful-- I was of the mind adding klonopin reduces the need for an antipsychotic, but this has never been studied. I can see this helping someone if they are on a decent dose of an antipsychotic and adding klonopin to avoid going up on the antipsychotic, but I'm increasingly skeptical about using this hunch to lower an antipsychotic. It's just not worth the risk.
Take your 30mg, for instance. What benefit would you notice going from 30mg to 15mg? None. You wouldn't feel it. Yet it could risk a relapse, which could risk needing to up the dose if the relapse worsens your condition. The klonopin might help relieve anxiety in general, and that may be helpful for your overall health, but I wouldn't do it just to try lowering a dose of Abilify when your dose is so modest.
The 30mg you're on is a moderate dose, and it simply doesn't justify much with going down in dose. If you were on 60mg, it might be different, but risking relapse for such a marginal. Near-zero benefit? I'm not so sure. If I were you, I'd give a good 2 years of zero symptoms before messing with those dose. Just my two cents...
As far as Klonopin goes, it is used along with the antihistamine Vistaril or Atarax for the same reason: it slows things down, which is important in bipolar. It is not, however, Lithium-- it's far from being a mood stabalizer. It's more of a normalizer-- it makes you more normal in general, that's all. It's not exactly a replacement for Lithium, to put it that way. It's an adjunct for mood disorders.
> Its good for mania in conjunction with an atypical antipsychotic. Mild mood stabilizer, good anti-anxiety+anti-agitation action, plus it helps reduce the dose of the antipsychotic necessary to get things under control.
Posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 7:55:20
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin? » gadchik, posted by viper1431 on May 23, 2012, at 13:43:58
Growth hormone and anxiety is about as interconnected as China and gophers.> I'ts basically found during studies in rats than klonopin has been found to cause an increase in human growth hormone. And that low growth hormone may be a factor in anxiety.
>
> it also seems to say that it increases Luteinizing hormone but takes a higher dose of klonopin for it to be really effective.. from what i understand Luteinizing hormone causes increases in testosterone in men.. so i can see why bodybuilders are interested..
>
>
>
> > Viper,what is that study really saying? I dont understand it.Every time I read one of those,I get more confused!
>
>
Posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 8:00:53
In reply to Re: Did you know this guy has a problem w me......, posted by brklyn2311 on May 23, 2012, at 14:29:21
Brklyn,
I apologized for the comment about the certs, basically, and you didn't seem upset with me until after my apology. I was tired and didn't mean to hurt.
As far as this thread goes, I don't have any problem with; I was specifically directing what I had a problem with were bodybuilders, and from how you wrote bodybuilders up, and didn't include yourself as one in mentioning them as a group, I imagined this would not be confused with having a problem with you.
We try to support each other in a supportive environment here, but we're not perfect, and this is the Internet, after all. When I am less than perfect, I try to apologize, and I regret potentially hurting anyone, but I do not make a pattern of it. I hope I can be more supportive of you in the future here.
> What is it with you,you seem to have problem wit me
> anyone the info as i stated was not myy opinion but fact according to doucmentation.
>
> statement one,
>
> Other anticonvulsants are now being used as mood stabilizers
> experimentally. Also, Klonopin (an anti-anxiety drug which is also an
> anti-convulsant) may be used as a mood stabilizer.
>
> THIS IS JUST ONE RANDOM SIGHT YOU CAN FIND MORE.
>
> Read more: http://stason.org/TULARC/health/mind/depression-bipolar-disorder/4-4-3-Mood-Stabilizers.html#ixzz1viqXpWTP
>
>
> LINK TO SOURCE
>
> http://stason.org/TULARC/health/mind/depression-bipolar-disorder/4-4-3-Mood-Stabilizers.html
>
>
>
>
Posted by zazenducke on May 24, 2012, at 8:08:51
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 7:55:20
>
> Growth hormone and anxiety is about as interconnected as China and gophers.
>There's gophers in China!
http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Adult-Growth-Hormone-Deficiency.aspx
Posted by brklyn2311 on May 24, 2012, at 17:59:53
In reply to Re: Did you know this guy has a problem w me...... » brklyn2311, posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 8:00:53
Its fine,i dont have no problem with you disagreeing with me,thats how the world works,but i felt as if you were under the impression im new here,no,i suffer like we all do,i have been here helping and getting help over a decade.My email is 757tech@gmx.com for anyone who wants to talk.I am a success story,not to mean i dont have my bad days.im a new bipolar,you can google called ULTRA RADEON which means cycles over and over in a single day
Also im a bodybuilder,dont let a few fool you,i particpate in smart drugs and nutrients,and respect all forms of treatment form meds,to nurtients to herbs,whatever works im all for it.I just think parnate is a truly valuable one.I was assaulted and tortued by a cop,that made me take self defense i have learned boxing and mma in the past two years as well as a lifter for ten.this is me if anyone cares .....
FYI i was bed ridden with depression so bad i was gonna get walkie talkies to tell my parents when i needed food etc,...my 70 year old ex retiree angel of a doc said she had never in her 30 year career seen a case resitant as bad as mine,then i came across parnate,i felt it in my gut it was the med for me,alone it pooped but parnate actualy is user friendly to augment if you take the time be careful and research.
Posted by TiredofChemicals on May 30, 2012, at 23:28:57
In reply to Re: Did you know this about klonopin?, posted by Novelagent on May 24, 2012, at 7:42:10
> A body builder -would- think a rat is a mini person, and pretend they can draw immediate conclusions and simply assume things from it.
>
> It reminds me of how people reading memantine studies that say it causes "reverse tolerance," not know the phenomonenon of reverse tolerance in the context of amphetamine use, and thinks it reads "reverses tolerance." These people then conclude from studies they can't read basic terms from that it "reverses" tolerance, and take it thinking tolerance will go away (tolerance that typically exists mainly in their head).
>
> And that's relatively educated people. Imagine what absurd translations occur in the minds of a bodybuilder! Trying to extrapolate from rat studies! These people can't even spell extrapolate, or understand how everything with animals requires all sorts of creative, loose assumptions dependent on one another in a chance of creative hunches that could very well be sh*t. And that's assuming they're mini, fuzzy humans with similar results-- which they're not.
>
> People forget that mental illness is usually self-reported-- having forced swim tests, etc. are just creative hunches. I had a psychopharmacology professor always doing studes in rats using GABAergic drugs like Gabitril to treat cocaine addiction in rats.
>
> Here's why it would work: rats push levers when they're bored, and when you make them less agitated and not care, they're less likely to press the lever that increases their dose. That DOESN'T mean Gabitril is going to treat a coke addict. They've cured rats all the time of cocaine addiction because of this. Give a cokehead a Valium, and they will not care, but they'll still do coke. Bodybuilders aren't going to figure this out if a psychopharmacology professor hasn't yet.
>
>
> > There is some evidence out there pointing to it being correct.
> > This is in rats though.
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1326109
> >
> >
> > > an opinion is not a fact. Meatheads do not go to psychopharmacology classes, and are the last people to trust on scientific matters. They're all full of it. They also think anything under the sun enhances libido or causes muscle. We like to have a little more critical skepticism on this board, and do not post heresy and conjecture.
> > >
> > > They just make stuff up. It's easier for meatheads to make stuff up than to read studies. They're not readers.
> > >
> > > > Two facts i found out about the drug and can be verified with a simple google search are,
> > > >
> > > > Klonopin aside from a anti anxiety agent,is also a powerful mood stablizer.
> > > >
> > > > Klonopin is used by some body builders as like ghb it releases natural gh,growth hormone which is crucial to growing strong muscles fast.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I'm not completely following you. Probably because I'm not as good at critical thinking as I once was.Maybe I'm jumping "midship" and not knowing all the details.
I would like to respond to the following.....
"It reminds me of how people reading memantine studies that say it causes "reverse tolerance," not know the phenomonenon of reverse tolerance in the context of amphetamine use, and thinks it reads "reverses tolerance." These people then conclude from studies they can't read basic terms from that it "reverses" tolerance, and take it thinking tolerance will go away (tolerance that typically exists mainly in their head).
^^^ I was always told by numerous psychiatrists that a person has to taper slowly while coming off klonopin...???I know from personal experience that I definitely had a physiological dependence on klonopin after I was prescribed, up to 8 mgs a day.
I did slowly titrate down from that dose. I've been told (by numerous psychiatrists) that a
person can end up in a potentially lethal situation if klonopin is abruptly stopped.However, at one point, (because I moved out of state) I did abruptly stop taking klonopin after I was taking around 2-3 mgs per day for an extended period of time.
^^^^ I would not advise this to others because I suffered greatly going "cold turkey". I was in very good physical shape at the time and I believe that helped me to withstand my physical cravings.Whether it was in my head or not is up for debate but I felt a strong physical desire for the klonopin. After my move to another state, I knew that I was not going to be prescribed the amount of klonopin that I was taking, up to that point.
The new doctors would not have known my history and I was told that, in my new location, the doctors were very ant-benzo.
It sucked, is all I remember.Once again, I'm not sure I really contributed anything her and apologize if I am speaking out of context.
Tired
This is the end of the thread.
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