![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 32 to 56 of 56. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phil on May 10, 2012, at 12:05:02
In reply to Re: an opinion, posted by ron1953 on May 10, 2012, at 10:35:49
> > I do think that doctors should stop prescribing SSRI's like candy, with the assumption that they are the least harmful of the psych meds and you might as well start with them.
>>Sales of almost all SSRI's have dropped off the charts. They may still prescribe too many but they don't prescribe anywhere near what they used to. Or maybe I'm missing something.> And that goes to the newer ways medical practices work, what with harried doctors cramming in as many 10-minute visits as possible in a day, and this includes many of what you folks refer to as "pdocs".
>>>My insurance 15 years ago only allowed 15 minute med checks. Not the doctors fault or plan. My primary care doc is busy but he will stay and answer my concerns. Doctors don't want to be pcp because of low pay. It's putting more strain on the existing ones.
> I don't have any studies or statistics to cite, but I do know that there is a sizable number of people who are taking unnecessary medications and/or are over-medicated.>>>And many not taking enough. Plus, millions of people with all different mental illnesses represented that don't even have a diagnosis. Over-med, no med, both bad. Us bipolar disordered people have a nasty tendency toward suicide, especially if unmedicated. I had one aborted attempt and I'm quite sure that if I didn't get rid of my gun 9 years ago I wouldn't be here.
> The other side of the coin is patients having unrealistic expectations about what doctors can actually do, or those who think doctors are some sort of gods.
>>>Yup.
> I like to remind myself of an old riddle:
>
> Q: What do you call somebody who graduated at the bottom of their medical school class?
>
> A: "Doctor">>>But may end up being an incredible doctor. How many millionaire / billionaires dropped out of school, have no qualifications to run places like Dell, Apple, Microsoft? But I do like the joke.
Posted by ron1953 on May 10, 2012, at 12:23:42
In reply to Re: an opinion, posted by Phil on May 10, 2012, at 12:05:02
Of course, graduating at the top of the class doesn't necessarily make for a good doctor, either. A student may have excellent memory, regurgitation, test-taking, and apple-polishing skills but that doesn't mean he/she will be a good diagnostician.
Posted by Phil on May 10, 2012, at 12:38:26
In reply to Re: an opinion » Phil, posted by ron1953 on May 10, 2012, at 12:23:42
Plus, as I was reading on that student doctor site, there are all kinds of variables between schools or residencies(?). Some places push you 80 hours a week, some 40. Some get more grant money. Some have the most competitive programs.
I would not want to be a doctor even if I had the smarts and trust me, I don't.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 15:51:05
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up...., posted by Dinah on May 9, 2012, at 9:59:50
> I too think side effects have been under-appreciated. Unfortunately negative bias by medical personnel may lead self reports of mental health patients to be discounted. Not that I give that much more credit to the sensitivity of doctors to other groups of patients....
>
> The side effects of medications are too often thought to be all in our minds, while the positive effects aren't considered placebo effects. Maybe that's changing as more patient reports are coming to be recognized as truth. Remember when the sexual side effects of SSRI's were thought to be rare? I think that may have been within the period of time I've been posting here.
>
> On the other hand, I don't see why long term use of a maintenance medication should be considered a bad thing if it's working at least to some extent, with tolerable side effects. Illnesses might be able to be treated short term. Surely conditions can't be.
>
> I have seen too much pain caused by unmedicated mental illness to have any objection to long term medications. In every case, benefits and risks should be weighed.
>
> On the other hand, I firmly support an objection to unsafe medications and medications unwisely prescribed. My experience with GP's on non-mental health issues does not lead me to believe that this is limited to psych meds. A GP once wanted to prescribe narcotics to me for migraines, without even looking first at triptans!!!Dinah,
You wrote[...I firmly support an objection to unsafe medications...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What criteria do you use to designate a medication as {unsafe]?
B. In your opinion, are all psychiatric drugs either safe or unsafe?
C. In a safe psychiatric medication, that is determined by you, could that same medication cause {sudden death} in another person taken as directed?
D. If a psychiatric drug could cause tardive dyskinesia, could that drug be a safe drug according to your criteria?
E. If a psychiatric medication could caue one to go into a withdrawal syndrome if dicontinued, could that drug be a {safe} medication?
F. If a pychiatric drug that you conider to be afe could caue a heart attack, could that drug be a safe medication?
G. If a child is given (redacted by repondent)
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 16:12:45
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up...., posted by Phil on May 9, 2012, at 10:52:53
> It's odd. When my brother was very sick and dying with cancer and being given radiation and one chemo after another that caused incredible side effects.
>
> Yet it was rare to hear patients at MD Anderson blaming Big Pharma and almost universally patients liked their doctors.
>
> Why? Sure cancer will kill you in many cases. Guess what, so will mental illness.
>
> Fact is, oncology is easier. They have studies that are so precise. ex. This chemo works best on Pacific Islander women between 28-35yo.
>
> When my bro ran out of drugs, the doc said call hospice and sent him home.
>
> Oncologists don't give chemo for no reason. No, they see the cancer and treat it.
>
> In both professions it's art and science. But the ONLY thing pdoc's have to work with is what we tell them.
>
> I've heard of people not following their doctors orders, not taking meds, getting drunk every night and then they say, my psychiatrist sucks.
>
> Some do suck but so do many patients that frankly are going to get what they ask for because they just aren't honest.Phil,
You wrote,[...cancer will kill you...so will mental illness...].
I am unure a to what you are wanting to meanhere. If you could pot anwer to the following, then I could have the opportunity to repond accordingly.
A. How does the mental illness cause death, as you wrote?
If it is by suicide, could you include the following in any answer that you post here?
1. The FDA states that many clasess of psychiatric drugs can increae suicide thinking
2. Do you know of the many studies that how that many pychiatric drugs could caue akatheia and induce a mind-altered state to compel the person taking the drug to want to kill themelves? Or others? Or go on a shooting rampage and be shot by police?
3. Are you aware that it is generally accepted that aboult 42,000 people died last year from pychiatric drug by one means or another?
4. Do you know that the chemical constituants in many pychotropic drugs come from (redacted by repondent) and that the drug one takes now may not be a new drug at all, but just a knock-off of an old drug?
B. If the death is not by suicide, could you post a citation to substantiate any claim you could make of that the death is caused my mental illness?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 16:34:04
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up...., posted by Willful on May 9, 2012, at 17:32:47
Willful,
You wrote,[...I asked (my doctor) about reversibility of drugs effects on the nervous system. He was very firm about the evidence so far...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
A. What effects on the nervous system did you ask the doctor about?
B. What was the doctor's evidnce that he/she was firm about?
C. Are you aware that tardive dyskinesia could be irreversible?
D. Are you aware that death from the drugs could be considered to be caused by an irreversible effect of the drug?
E. Ared you aware that there is evidence that psychiatric drugs could cause irreversible harm to the brain and other parts of the nervous system? If so, how could that fact be included in whatever you say that your doctor was firm about?
Lou
Posted by Phil on May 10, 2012, at 16:42:03
In reply to Lou' request-ehypstngdheeluzn » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 16:12:45
Lou I just have to rephrase what I said.
Cancer can kill you, so can mental illness.
Cancer is obvious. Mental illness..suicide. Grab a cop while psychotic and he shoots you. I guess with psychosis many bad scenario's are possible.
While manic, driving fast and having a wreck. Hypersexual get caught in the sack with another mans wife. Bad judgement with mania or psychotic mania.That's the best I can do, Lou.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 16:54:49
In reply to I hate these anti p-doc messages, posted by emmanuel98 on May 9, 2012, at 19:07:42
> My p-doc gets paid $115 (including my co-pay) to see my for an hour for therapy and med help. He has never discounted my complaints about side effects. He has tried everything reasonable. When he runs out of ideas, he sends me to a consultant who specializes in meds. He doesn't speak at dinners for pharmaceutical companies. He says he is not perfect on this, since he does attend the dinners, but he tends to ask a lot of questions and sometimes the speaker gets annoyed. He's a great, ethical guy with a ton of clinical experience. I realize there are bad p-docs out there, just like there are orthopedic surgeons happy to fuse your spine when evidence suggests this makes things worse, and oncologists happy to put you on a $100,000/yr drug that might extend your life by two months.
>
> My experience, both with my p-doc and with p-docs I've seen in hospitals and for consultation, is that these guys and women are trained to listen and be empathic. They do the best they can with drugs that don't always work or don't always work well.
>
> I hate this anti p-doc stuff on babble. Most p-docs want the best and try the best. The problem is that little is understood about the brain and mood disorders.emannual,
You wrote,[...most p-docs want the best and try the best...littls understood about the brain and mood disorders...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What is the criteria that you used to determine that most p-docs want the best, and the best for who? (whom?) and what is the criteria that you use to determine if a p-doc is trying his/her best?
B. If a p-doc is trying their best, would one thing be to disclose to their client that there are people that claim that there are faiths, such as Judaism that could give one peace and joy without taking mind-altering drugs?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 17:28:41
In reply to the Truth(s), posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 9:04:48
> I think I have an ingrained reaction to capitalized truth.
>
> Can a distinction at least be made? I've seen unmedicated psychosis. I've seen unmedicated bipolar. My family has a long history of severe depression self treated. I wouldn't want to go back to those days. My aunt unmedicated? Unable to be a mother to her children. Miserable and afraid. My aunt medicated? A productive member of society and beloved mother with some troublesome side effects.
>
> I think the most pro-medication people would agree that psych meds are overprescribed by ignorant doctors who find reaching for a prescription pad the easiest solution.
>
> I think most people who believe in mental illness as a serious problem where kindling can make the problem more and more severe could be induced to believe that medications can have long lasting effects on some people.
>
> I hope that most anti med people are not blanketly anti med, and can agree that some mental illness is better treated than not.
>
> The thing is that I am seeing balanced posts by pro-med people a whole lot more than I am seeing balanced posts by anti-med people. This overall makes me more pro-med than I might otherwise be. But that's me. And admittedly, I might be guilty of remembering some posts more than others. But I honestly don't recall many people speaking lyrically of the magic of medicine for everyone who suffers the slightest problem, and do recall many posts damning all psych meds.
>
> I'd also like to see some evidence that psych meds are more harmful than any other meds. Seems to me that I can only recall one psych meds among the many legal cattle calls for class action suits.Dinah,
You wrote,[...psych meds are overprescribed by xxx doctors...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
A. What criteria did you use to determine that psych meds are {overprescribed}?
B. Is it not a fact that there is a manual that gives the drug to treat a particlar symptom and there is also the dosage given, such as the PDR?
C. If the doctor follows that regimin in the book, then he/she is just doing what the profession calls for, correct?
D. Is it not illegal to overprescribe if the manual used calls for not overprescribing? I mean, can a prescriber give more than what is called for in the PDR? The prescriber can't give 100mg of a drug if the PDR states only 25 mg, can they? So what is the criteria that you used to charactorize those doctors as xxx?
Lou
Posted by poser938 on May 10, 2012, at 17:45:33
In reply to I hate these anti p-doc messages, posted by emmanuel98 on May 9, 2012, at 19:07:42
i just think it is a great thing that there is a movement of many people in this world trying to hold psychiatry and drug companies accountable.
Posted by poser938 on May 10, 2012, at 18:28:02
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up.... Nice Post., posted by Phil on May 10, 2012, at 7:32:37
when i say a med has caused a porlem it is bewause i will go from being able to feel all the emotions that i felt for the 1st 17 years of my life.i could *feel* music.i could *feel* love. and i could look up at the night sky and see all the stars and it would just blow my mind how big this universe is.
then in the summer of 2005 i decided i was sick of being too vulnerable to letting others bring me down. my grades in school sucked because my priorities were all wrong and i had more focus on social problems rather than my school work.
i started seeing a psychiatrist and they evaluated me and diagnosed me with "moderate depression". i remember as i was filling out the questions asking me how depressed i was i was thankful i wasnt near as bad as many of the situations that had been described.and the3n it came time to see the psychiatrist. he prescribed me 4 different meds. cymbalta, adderall, geodon, and aricept.
the cymbalta was for depression
adderall was to help with focus in school
geodon was to stabilize my moods (i was not diagnosed as bipolar and i dont think i was bipolar)
and aricept was just to help with some mild memory problems.
fast forward 2 months and i now have SEVERE emotional problems. crying way too easily. i now cant stay in school a whole day. i have no joy in being with friends and life on a whole is less enjoyable. also, my sexual functioning is worse. i decide to stop all the meds. i go for a year off them and my mood doesnt improve a bit from how it was after being on them for 2 months. even during this time, i didnt think the meds had caused the problems. i then finally decide to try more medications only to end up worse. while taking the med... and the effect DOES NOT GO AWAY after stopping the med.what i am sick and tired of is being questioned and scrutinized and bullied my psychiatrists themselves about my situation.. and it is going to lead to my death. i am not going to accept going another summer with my brain in this situation. i am not experiencing life. i live in a static world. i dont enjoy anything. and everyone acts like is is so far fetched that psychiatric medication could do this to a person.. i am sick of it.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 19:56:13
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up.... Nice Post., posted by poser938 on May 10, 2012, at 18:28:02
> when i say a med has caused a porlem it is bewause i will go from being able to feel all the emotions that i felt for the 1st 17 years of my life.i could *feel* music.i could *feel* love. and i could look up at the night sky and see all the stars and it would just blow my mind how big this universe is.
> then in the summer of 2005 i decided i was sick of being too vulnerable to letting others bring me down. my grades in school sucked because my priorities were all wrong and i had more focus on social problems rather than my school work.
> i started seeing a psychiatrist and they evaluated me and diagnosed me with "moderate depression". i remember as i was filling out the questions asking me how depressed i was i was thankful i wasnt near as bad as many of the situations that had been described.
>
> and the3n it came time to see the psychiatrist. he prescribed me 4 different meds. cymbalta, adderall, geodon, and aricept.
> the cymbalta was for depression
> adderall was to help with focus in school
> geodon was to stabilize my moods (i was not diagnosed as bipolar and i dont think i was bipolar)
> and aricept was just to help with some mild memory problems.
> fast forward 2 months and i now have SEVERE emotional problems. crying way too easily. i now cant stay in school a whole day. i have no joy in being with friends and life on a whole is less enjoyable. also, my sexual functioning is worse. i decide to stop all the meds. i go for a year off them and my mood doesnt improve a bit from how it was after being on them for 2 months. even during this time, i didnt think the meds had caused the problems. i then finally decide to try more medications only to end up worse. while taking the med... and the effect DOES NOT GO AWAY after stopping the med.
>
> what i am sick and tired of is being questioned and scrutinized and bullied my psychiatrists themselves about my situation.. and it is going to lead to my death. i am not going to accept going another summer with my brain in this situation. i am not experiencing life. i live in a static world. i dont enjoy anything. and everyone acts like is is so far fetched that psychiatric medication could do this to a person.. i am sick of it.Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thrread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
Lou
To view this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, Dystonia progressive from antidepressants]
You will see a pic of a woman...posted Dec 4 or 5 or 6 2008... time is 5 or 6 min
Posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 21:38:39
In reply to Re: an opinion, posted by Phil on May 10, 2012, at 12:05:02
> >>Sales of almost all SSRI's have dropped off the charts. They may still prescribe too many but they don't prescribe anywhere near what they used to. Or maybe I'm missing something.
I'm glad to hear that. Not that I'm saying they're bad, but I'm glad the era of thinking they're the modern day equivalent of little liver pills is over.
Posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 22:06:27
In reply to Lou's request-ohvrprskrb » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 10, 2012, at 17:28:41
I'm sorry, Lou. I really can't.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 10, 2012, at 23:02:50
In reply to the Truth(s), posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 9:04:48
There may be a bit of resentment about the idea of "needing" meds.
I can only speak for myself. I wish that I could say, "I'm stopping these medications tomorrow.", and really think that's possible. Of course, it is, but It would be uncomfortable... to say the least.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2012, at 20:19:04
In reply to Re: the Truth(s), posted by sleepygirl2 on May 10, 2012, at 23:02:50
> There may be a bit of resentment about the idea of "needing" meds.
> I can only speak for myself. I wish that I could say, "I'm stopping these medications tomorrow.", and really think that's possible. Of course, it is, but It would be uncomfortable... to say the least.> s_g2,
You wrote,[...resentment about the idea of needing meds...I wish that I could say, "I'm stopping these meds tomorrow."...it would be uncomfortable...].
Not only could it be uncomforable, but during the stopping, one could kill thmselves and/or others.
Now I know of a way to rid yourself of mind-altering drugs. It is through great tribulation like being in a winepress that you enter a transformation to becoming a new creature. So then by becoming a new creature, the great tribulation would not apply when the transformtion takes place. One is cast into a lake of fire but is not hurt, but purified.
There is also healing. This healing then can restore one with a great light and they would have a new nature that gives them peace and joy. This transformation is available to all, freely without price. One receives a new heart, a new spirit and a new mind. Gone will be the old mind that had mind-altering drugs in it. Gone will be the hold that the drug had on you so that you can stop them.
And you will be in a new realm where all tears are wiped away from you eyes, and there shall be no more death, niether sorrow nor crying, niether shall there be anymore pain, for the former things are passed away.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2012, at 10:00:06
In reply to Lou's request-pstohpping tumarohe » sleepygirl2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2012, at 20:19:04
Friends,
If you are concerned about your own life, or the life of a child of yours that you are trying to make up your mind to have your child drugged with mind-altering drugs or not, or for any other reason, I am requesting that you view the following video.
You see, in this site, the content can be controlled by Mr. Hsiung and his depuuty and the past deputies to have the potential IMHO to create an indoctrination. This indoctrination can be created by having prohibitions to me from Mr. Hsiung that prevent me from posting here what I think could save lives, save people from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction, and if I was allowed to be freed from the prohibitions, I think that what I could post here could lead you to a new life, free from addiction and depression.
Also if you go to the Admin board here, you will see requets and notification from me to the administration that are outstanding for days, weeks months and years. These outstanding notifications request from Mr. Hsiung to clarify has rationales and TOS here so that if those requests were responded to me here, then I think that lives could be saved, for the readers here could then see my responses to Mr. Hsiung here. This is because my requets state that I am unsure as to what Mr. Hsiung is wanting to mean by what he has written here, and if was to respond to my requests, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly. My response, then could IMHHHHO have the potential to save lives, for then you could know what I know.
So with that, I am also requesting that you read my outstanding requests to Mr. Hsiung on the administrative board here and then email me if you like so that I can answer any of your questions that you could have.
Now if you look at this video, then there will the other parts that you can view by clicking on the side videos on the page. The pause feature on the video will allow you to freeze the frame so that you can look more closely at the contents.
Lou
To see part 3 of this series:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, Neuroleptic Education: Part 3]
Posted on Feb 16 2010....5 min
Posted by huxley on May 16, 2012, at 17:07:27
In reply to Re: This is the Truth » huxley, posted by SLS on May 10, 2012, at 5:40:50
Posted by huxley on May 17, 2012, at 5:04:38
In reply to Re: This is the Truth » huxley, posted by SLS on May 10, 2012, at 5:40:50
> Hi Huxley.
>
> > "i went in to treat my "mild depression" and now 7 years later i am almost completely dysfunctional."
>
>
> This is an exercise in logic:
>
> How were you able to discount the possibility that the natural course of your illness progressed over the course of 7 years?
>
> 7 years is more than enough time for depression to worsen from mild to severe. It took less than 7 years for me to have this happen - and this occurred before I ever took a psychotropic drug.
>
>
> - ScottThat wasn't me scott, I was quoting someone else from this thread but I did have a similar experience.
I can tell because when I stopped taking my drugs I got better.
Not suggesting this would happen for everyone but it makes you wonder.
I was indeed being made mentally ill by medications.
How do you know that your drugs have not added to/caused further illness?
And
Posted by huxley on May 17, 2012, at 5:22:20
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up...., posted by Willful on May 9, 2012, at 13:21:54
> IMO what's happening here is that some very fearful people are making their voices heard on the med board, and they've either influenced other people who are somewhat fearful, or those who haven't yet found a workable med regimen, and who are angry and upset about it (understandably) to begin to blame their doctors-- and to disavow all meds-- for the moment.
>
> These aren't the world-- and I don't think they're even representative of people who take meds. We forget that we're a very small population of people and that many of us are still searching for adequate treatment. And that doctors aren't to blame for our lack of treatments-- the world just hasn't gotten there yet. This is tragic, no doubt. But it really isn't anyone's fault. I mean we can blame Big Pharma-- and I"m sure that their overall decisions are bad and self-serving-- in fact, to be honest we live in a time when profit, particularly for shareholders, is the accepted prime directive for corporations. So blame economists and politicians-- or blame our lack of intellectual subtlety as a species-- or just accept that we're living in a time when there are not yet treatments that I know we all hope for.
>
> But don't accept the myths perpetrated by the most fearful and angry among us-- and don't believe the fearful distortions that they're putting out. Meds are not destroying our brains-- or giving us brain damage. They may not help and they have side effects---and also certainly discontinuation syndromes. The body in general, including the brain, adjusts to meds, and has to readjust to the absence of meds, when we take them. But we're okay. We;re not being permanently and irremediably injured.
>
> I'm just like the rest of us-- I have meds that work well enough--- for which I'm extremely grateful-- but meds that don't work really well. But I count myself lucky. I've accepted that this is the best life I can have, and I would never go back to my life prior to these meds.
>
> But I don't believe these stories or agitations about destroying ourselves-- or the noxiousness of pdocs. Of course there are crude and unhelpful-- even harmful-- ones-- as in any profession. But that's not the point. Most of them are trying to help. I'm glad people are here informing themselves so they can be as active in their treatment as possible-- we shouldn't go in with eyes closed and trust blindly or without considering what's being offered. But basic trust is so important.
>
> And these myths and fears not only undermine that-- but spread a sort of terror of some imminent and unseen threat to the most fundamental part of ourselves-- which is unfounded and really unhelpful.
>
> Willful
>
>I like you post, well thought out and articulated but I have a few problems with it.
"IMO what's happening here is that some very fearful people are making their voices heard on the med board,"
Who says I am fearful? or angry?
"But don't accept the myths perpetrated by the most fearful and angry among us-- and don't believe the fearful distortions that they're putting out. Meds are not destroying our brains-- or giving us brain damage. They may not help and they have side effects---and also certainly discontinuation syndromes. The body in general, including the brain, adjusts to meds, and has to readjust to the absence of meds, when we take them. But we're okay. We;re not being permanently and irremediably injured."Again with the fearful and angry... Anyway here is a list of side effects acknowledged by the creators of a drug.
Some of them seem pretty permanent to me.
hyperglycemia
diabetes
metabolic syndrome
ketoacidosis
10% decrease in brain volume
carcinogenic effects
Tardive dyskinesia
Permanent Sexual Disfunction
cognative impariment
DeathMany off us are being permanently and irremediably injured.
"And these myths and fears not only undermine that-- but spread a sort of terror of some imminent and unseen threat to the most fundamental part of ourselves-- which is unfounded and really unhelpful."The problem is they are not myths. They are written on the profiles of the drugs. And that is only the things that they have been forced to admit.
Posted by SLS on May 17, 2012, at 6:13:30
In reply to Re: This is the Truth, posted by huxley on May 17, 2012, at 5:04:38
Hi again, Huxley.
> > > "i went in to treat my "mild depression" and now 7 years later i am almost completely dysfunctional."
> > This is an exercise in logic:
> >
> > How were you able to discount the possibility that the natural course of your illness progressed over the course of 7 years? 7 years is more than enough time for depression to worsen from mild to severe. It took less than 7 years for me to have this happen - and this occurred before I ever took a psychotropic drug.> That wasn't me scott, I was quoting someone else from this thread but I did have a similar experience.
Oops. Sorry.
> I can tell because when I stopped taking my drugs I got better.I believe you.
> Not suggesting this would happen for everyone but it makes you wonder.
Yes, it does. What symptoms / illness were you initially attempting to treat? Was the mild depression diagnosed as being Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) or dysthymia?
> I was indeed being made mentally ill by medications.
In what ways was this mental illness different from your initial presentation?
> How do you know that your drugs have not added to/caused further illness?
Good question.
:-)
I don't.
As a matter of fact, I am sure that my exposure to antidepressants and older antipsychotics has made me more resistant to responding to these drugs. I have acknowledged this for over 20 years. The only things is, I was in pain, episodically suicidal, and couldn't function without some sort of medical intervention. New drugs weren't coming out fast enough to think about waiting for them while in a drug-free state. This would have been ideal. I felt that I had no better choice than to pursue further antidepressant treatment. What I don't know is whether or not drugs increased the severity of my depression. This sometimes happens on its own as time passes.
I am genuinely happy - and believing - that you are doing better without psychiatric medication.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on May 21, 2012, at 6:38:15
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up...., posted by huxley on May 17, 2012, at 5:22:20
People who are of any age are necessarily damaged by wear and tear.
It's no amazing thing to be damaged by drugs or by anything else.
Posted by zazenducke on May 21, 2012, at 9:11:01
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up...., posted by sigismund on May 21, 2012, at 6:38:15
> People who are of any age are necessarily damaged by wear and tear.
>
> It's no amazing thing to be damaged by drugs or by anything else.
Not amazing but certainly alarming.
Posted by sigismund on May 21, 2012, at 18:40:36
In reply to Re: Is the world finally waking up.... » sigismund, posted by zazenducke on May 21, 2012, at 9:11:01
>Not amazing but certainly alarming.
Especially perhaps to those who take good health for granted, perhaps because they feel death is so far away. Then it is a shock.I enjoy the hallucination we call sight more and more knowing it is so temporary, the blue of the sky, so deep here, and the green of all the trees. We are really only alive for five minutes, particularly for me now, and it is fine, as fine as it will ever be.
Posted by huxley on May 25, 2012, at 5:59:23
In reply to Re: This is the Truth » huxley, posted by SLS on May 17, 2012, at 6:13:30
> Hi again, Huxley.
>
> > > > "i went in to treat my "mild depression" and now 7 years later i am almost completely dysfunctional."
>
> > > This is an exercise in logic:
> > >
> > > How were you able to discount the possibility that the natural course of your illness progressed over the course of 7 years? 7 years is more than enough time for depression to worsen from mild to severe. It took less than 7 years for me to have this happen - and this occurred before I ever took a psychotropic drug.
>
> > That wasn't me scott, I was quoting someone else from this thread but I did have a similar experience.
>
> Oops. Sorry.
>
> > I can tell because when I stopped taking my drugs I got better.
>
> I believe you.
>
> > Not suggesting this would happen for everyone but it makes you wonder.
>
> Yes, it does. What symptoms / illness were you initially attempting to treat? Was the mild depression diagnosed as being Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) or dysthymia?
>
> > I was indeed being made mentally ill by medications.
>
> In what ways was this mental illness different from your initial presentation?
>
> > How do you know that your drugs have not added to/caused further illness?
>
> Good question.
>
> :-)
>
> I don't.
>
> As a matter of fact, I am sure that my exposure to antidepressants and older antipsychotics has made me more resistant to responding to these drugs. I have acknowledged this for over 20 years. The only things is, I was in pain, episodically suicidal, and couldn't function without some sort of medical intervention. New drugs weren't coming out fast enough to think about waiting for them while in a drug-free state. This would have been ideal. I felt that I had no better choice than to pursue further antidepressant treatment. What I don't know is whether or not drugs increased the severity of my depression. This sometimes happens on its own as time passes.
>
> I am genuinely happy - and believing - that you are doing better without psychiatric medication.
>
>
> - ScottThanks scott, I appreciate your kind words.
> In what ways was this mental illness different from your initial presentation?
I got to a stage where I believe my meds, inparticular zyprexa and lactimal had induced
- panic attacks
- derealization
- anxiety
- brainfog/cognative impairmentOf course I can't prove any of this.
My diagnosis over time varied inbetween, depression, anxiety, SAD, bipolar, ADD..... one even suggested OCD.
I dont begrudge suicidal people or chronically ill people from trying anything to get better given the alternatives.
And I guess we will never no how our lives would have been had we not being ingesting mind altering drugs.
What I hate, with a passion, is doctors handing out drugs like candy.drugs, which obviously CAN and do have severe side effects.
This is the end of the thread.
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