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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by n_shrimpie on April 3, 2012, at 22:37:52
How long does selegiline in pill form take to start working? If it doesn't work, can i transition immediately to nardil, or is there a wash out period?
Posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 6:01:03
In reply to selegiline onset of action, posted by n_shrimpie on April 3, 2012, at 22:37:52
> How long does selegiline in pill form take to start working?
For what medical condition?
For depression, it is hard to say. It probably won't work at all, but I will be interested to see how you with it. With the Emsam patch, there is often a reduction in social anxiety that occurs within the first week or two. The antidepressant effect can take four weeks.
> If it doesn't work, can i transition immediately to nardil, or is there a wash out period?
There isn't very much that is understood about the mechanics behind the occurrence of stroke, although uncommon, when two different MAOIs are taken in proximity to each other. I don't doubt that some people can crossover without a washout period. However, I would wait at least 10 days between the last dose of selegiline and the initiation of treatment with another MAOI. A washout period of two weeks is recommended by the manufacturer.
- Scott
Posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 6:34:58
In reply to selegiline onset of action, posted by n_shrimpie on April 3, 2012, at 22:37:52
n_shrimpie,
For me, oral seligiline started working on my vegetative depression pretty much immediately, but as I've said, my response was short lived. I'm not entirely sure how common my response to selegiline was, but I tend to think that others' response patterns to the medication will be different from what mine was.
As far as whether a washout period is necessary when transitioning from selegiline to Nardil is concerned, I don't know the answer to your question, but what Scott wrote seems to be sensible.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 7:50:55
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action, posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 6:34:58
> n_shrimpie,
>
> For me, oral seligiline started working on my vegetative depression pretty much immediatelyInteresting.
Oral selegiline is extensively metabolized by the liver during first-pass metabolism into L-amphetamine and L-methamphetamine. While not as potent as the L- versions of these substances, perhaps this contributed to your feeling an improvement in vegetative symptoms so early.
- Scott
Posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 8:26:19
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 7:50:55
Scott,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on why I noticed a rapid response to oral selegiline when I took the medication. I do wonder what effect an amphetamine drug or other stimulant would have had on my vegetative depression back when the vegetative symptoms were the only symptoms that I was suffering from. I recall one Psycho-Babble member who had responses to SRIs and Nardil that were similar to mine saying that he was responding well to Dexedrine, but I don't know how he responded to the stimulant in the long run. I never did ask my psychiatrist at the time about attempting a trial with a stimulant, and I'd be hesitant to try a stimulant now because of the potential for it to worsen my psychotic symptoms. I also don't think that a stimulant would be necessary at this point in time because my vegetative depression has been mostly under control as of late. I seem to be experiencing a strangely refreshing long-term response to an anti-aging supplement that I took several days ago, so for the moment, I don't really need any extra stimulation.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 8:42:16
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 8:26:19
> I seem to be experiencing a strangely refreshing long-term response to an anti-aging supplement that I took several days ago, so for the moment, I don't really need any extra stimulation.
I hope your improvement continues.What anti-aging substance are you taking?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 8:43:47
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 7:50:55
Corrected:
Oral selegiline is extensively metabolized by the liver during first-pass metabolism into L-amphetamine and L-methamphetamine. While not as potent as the R- versions of these substances, perhaps this contributed to your feeling an improvement in vegetative symptoms so early.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2012, at 9:51:47
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 8:26:19
Yes what anti aging supplement are you taking? I'm so glad to hear your vegetable depression is now under control. Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 11:37:50
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2012, at 9:51:47
Scott and Phillipa,
The anti-aging supplement that I've taken is TA-65. It activates the telomerase enzyme, which helps to repair and lengthen short telomeres. Telomeres are strands on the ends of chromosomes that are thought to protect DNA, and these chromosomal strands generally shorten with age. Shortened telomeres have been implicated in age-related diseases, and two studies have found short telomeres to be correlated with depressive illness, while a third study showed that short telomeres and chronicity of depressive symptoms were correlated. Depressive disorders and shortened telomeres share some of the same risk factors, and both depression and short telomeres have been found to be associated with oxidative stress and inflammation. Furthermore, activating the telomerase enzyme in rodents has been found to promote hippocampal neurogenesis and to produce antidepressant-like effects, while blocking the enzyme has been found to reduce the rate of hippocampal neurogenesis and to induce behaviors that are thought to be indicative of depression.
I took TA-65 for two days -- March 28th and 29th of this year -- and decided to stop taking it due to tingling-like sensations in my head that emerged after I took my second dose of the supplement. I noticed reductions in the severity of all of my depressive symptoms -- especially my hypersomnia and difficulty concentrating -- on the two days that I spent on TA-65, but what surprised me was that the therapeutic benefits that I first noticed when I took the supplement didn't fade during my first few days off of the supplement, and some of these benefits still haven't faded. I did notice that my energy level was slightly lower yesterday than it had been since I took TA-65, and today my psychomotor retardation seems to be slightly worse than it's been as of late. I think that the reduced energy I noticed yesterday and the increased psychomotor retardation that I've noticed today might be signs that the rest of my depressive symptoms will get worse once again, but my hypersomnia and difficulty concentrating have not grown worse since I've stopped taking the TA-65. So, my vegetative depression, though not in remission, still seems to be remarkably less severe than it was before I took TA-65. At this point, I am considering taking more TA-65 to see maybe if taking it every few days might produce the best results, but for now, I want to see if the benefits that I'm noticing will continue without having to take the supplement regularly.
It obviously hasn't been very long since I stopped taking TA-65, so I don't want to jump to any conclusions about what long-term benefits it can produce, but I think that my response to the supplement can have some interesting implications if it persists into the long term -- especially if I don't need to keep taking the supplement to reap its benefits. Although my understanding of telomeres and the telomerase enzyme isn't very advanced, it makes some sense that activating the telomerase enzyme would lengthen critically short telomeres -- something that TA-65 has been clinically shown to do -- and leave them elongated in the long term unless they become shortened by age, stress, or other risk factors for telomere shortening. This might explain why I seem to be noticing long-term benefits from TA-65, even though I discontinued the supplement several days ago.
If I continue to experience long-term benefits from having taken TA-65, I will eventually start a thread on the alternative board detailing my response to the supplement and how it may evolve with time. At this point, I'm not ready to declare myself cured by any means both because I still have depressive symptoms and because it hasn't been very long since I stopped TA-65, but it will be interesting to see how well I do in the long run, whether or not I decide to take the supplement again.
Tomatheus
P.S. Thanks for the correction, Scott. What you wrote makes more sense now.
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2012, at 20:17:47
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action, posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 11:37:50
You are so intelligent and well written it's almost hard to think you have anything wrong with you. You are truly remarkable and I sure hope this works for you. Now will google it. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on April 4, 2012, at 20:52:00
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2012, at 20:17:47
Thanks, Phillipa. I definitely feel less consumed by my symptoms after having taken TA-65. With the way that I've been functioning over the past several days, I can see why you have some difficulty believing that there's anything wrong with me. I'm definitely functioning on a higher level than I was a little more than a week ago, but I still do experience affective and cognitive impairments to an extent.
Tomatheus
Posted by Novelagent on April 5, 2012, at 15:55:53
In reply to selegiline onset of action, posted by n_shrimpie on April 3, 2012, at 22:37:52
> How long does selegiline in pill form take to start working? If it doesn't work, can i transition immediately to nardil, or is there a wash out period?
It worked for me the first day (although it took 2weeks for me to notice it had worked the prior 2 weeks).
But that's cos I took DLPA. Take a decent dose of DLPA and no more than 5mg of selegiline and you'll be golden. But two things: one, your friends will notice the chance a few weeks before you do, so keep going with it, and two, keep it up for at least 3 months, as it could take that long. Probably won't, but you don't want nardil if you can avoid it.
Posted by Novelagent on April 5, 2012, at 16:00:52
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » n_shrimpie, posted by SLS on April 4, 2012, at 6:01:03
I owe my life to this drug-- i took it for depression. Oral tablets, before emsam got approved. Check first to see if Somerset Pharmaceuticals has a Patient Assistance program. And for the long-term, apply for medicaid if you can.
Please people, sometimes you guys just talk out of you know what. "probably won't work for depression"?? It works a lot better than the placebo effect from some atypical and SSRI combo.
> How long does selegiline in pill form take to start working?
>
> For what medical condition?
>
> For depression, it is hard to say. It probably won't work at all, but I will be interested to see how you with it. With the Emsam patch, there is often a reduction in social anxiety that occurs within the first week or two. The antidepressant effect can take four weeks.
>
> > If it doesn't work, can i transition immediately to nardil, or is there a wash out period?
>
> There isn't very much that is understood about the mechanics behind the occurrence of stroke, although uncommon, when two different MAOIs are taken in proximity to each other. I don't doubt that some people can crossover without a washout period. However, I would wait at least 10 days between the last dose of selegiline and the initiation of treatment with another MAOI. A washout period of two weeks is recommended by the manufacturer.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 5, 2012, at 20:41:15
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action, posted by Novelagent on April 5, 2012, at 15:55:53
>
> But that's cos I took DLPA. Take a decent dose of DLPA and no more than 5mg of selegiline and you'll be golden.Do you suspect DLPA would have an effect combined with another MAOI like Parnate?
Posted by n_shrimpie on April 5, 2012, at 21:12:09
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » Novelagent, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 5, 2012, at 20:41:15
how much dpla? is the generic selegiline as effective as the name brand? Most people need more than 5mg selegiline so i have no problem increasing it if neccessary. how long does the dlpa take to kick in?
> >
> > But that's cos I took DLPA. Take a decent dose of DLPA and no more than 5mg of selegiline and you'll be golden.
>
> Do you suspect DLPA would have an effect combined with another MAOI like Parnate?
>
Posted by Novelagent on April 11, 2012, at 9:27:38
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action » Novelagent, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 5, 2012, at 20:41:15
> >
> > But that's cos I took DLPA. Take a decent dose of DLPA and no more than 5mg of selegiline and you'll be golden.
>
> Do you suspect DLPA would have an effect combined with another MAOI like Parnate?
>
I don't know, and it might be dangerous to combine DLPA at even MAOI doses of selegiline... Be careful.
Posted by Novelagent on April 11, 2012, at 9:31:36
In reply to Re: selegiline onset of action, posted by n_shrimpie on April 5, 2012, at 21:12:09
I don't recall how much, but I took Life Extension brand DLPA, and I seemed to recall taking 2 or 3 capsules-- check the board for messages circa 2004 or so for "dlpa+selegiline"-- it was before emsam had come out.
It worked the first day, although it took 2 weeks for me to notice, as it usually the lag time with knowing depression lifts-- your friends will notice the change before you will. It could take 3 months, so hang in there.
> how much dpla? is the generic selegiline as effective as the name brand? Most people need more than 5mg selegiline so i have no problem increasing it if neccessary. how long does the dlpa take to kick in?
>
> > >
> > > But that's cos I took DLPA. Take a decent dose of DLPA and no more than 5mg of selegiline and you'll be golden.
> >
> > Do you suspect DLPA would have an effect combined with another MAOI like Parnate?
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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