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Posted by SLS on March 10, 2012, at 20:50:35
In reply to Lou's response-dhthkalz » kagome, posted by Lou Pilder on March 10, 2012, at 16:17:40
Hi Lou.
What psychotropic drugs have you tried in the past?
- Scott
Posted by kagome on March 11, 2012, at 0:39:32
In reply to Lou's response-dhaweihgzofpsyn-Li, posted by Lou Pilder on March 10, 2012, at 16:43:23
*Trigger Warning*
> > > Since death is a potential consequence to the taker of the drugs in combination, could you have more dialog here with me so that there could be a more informed body of educational material for you to make a more-informed decision as to if you do or do not want to take these drugs?
Hi Lou,
I really do appreciate your concern, but suicide from major depression is actually the eighth leading cause of death in the United States.(http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/805459-overview)
That means more people die of suicide than any med combination. Personally, although I feel like suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do, the pain of living can be so intense that if I owned a gun or some similar fast and easy way of checking out I would have been gone a long time ago.I agree that everyone needs to make a very informed decision of the pros and cons of med therapy. I personally have explored many pros and cons and as one can guess by seeing my relative unconcern about health related aspects that I am at a very desperate point, where either a medication works or I find another way out (of the world, if I have to make myself painfully clear). Once I am in a safer non-suicidal place I have every intention of finding non-medication ways of maintaining mental health. Until then, though, I'm going to do what I can to survive, which for now necessarily includes medication. Please respect my decision from now on. Thank you again, though, for your concern.
Posted by kagome on March 11, 2012, at 0:59:00
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) » kagome, posted by SLS on March 10, 2012, at 14:47:34
Hey Scott,
Sorry I forgot to mention that I did go on Abilify, on your recommendation actually. Even though it's probably too early to actually tell, it seems to already be helping. But it is just an adjunct, right? As in not meant to work alone? Regardless, I just started on 2mg daily, for almost a week now.
I'm wondering if you have some good arguments for continuing Parnate, because as of right now I think I'm stopping. So basically I'm hoping to find another frontline anti-depressant.
I'm somewhat interested in Lithium, but I've never been diagnosed as bipolar. You wrote something at one point that was fascinating about a new way of differentiating bipolar disorder - and I do have atypical depression that hasn't responded to several medications and has pooped out on others - but it seems strange to never have any manic episodes or even times of irritability/agitation that weren't directly related to meds. So I'm on the fence, but I am really open to experimentation since things are relatively desperate right now.
I'll definitely look more into Prazosin. Do you feel like it's helped mood-wise, bad memory-wise, sleep-wise,etc? As I mentioned before I'm an abuse survivor so it's definitely something to think about, I just have doubts about a blood pressure med doing much for the suicidal depression that is most troubling right now.
Thanks again for all your help!
Posted by kagome on March 11, 2012, at 1:04:54
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) » kagome, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2012, at 12:25:48
> Have you thought of emsam? Some have done well with it? Phillipa
Yeah, I've taken so much there's a lot I foget about - one is selegiline, which I hear doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier well (and did absolutely nothing) and I couldn't afford the ensam patch (insurance won't cover). Thanks though!
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 6:15:57
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!), posted by kagome on March 11, 2012, at 0:59:00
> I'm somewhat interested in Lithium, but I've never been diagnosed as bipolar.
Low dose lithium (300 - 600 mg) has long been used as an adjunct to antidepressants in unipolar depression. An old trick is to add lithium to Parnate.
THE BIPOLAR SPECTRUMBIPOLAR I: Both mania and major depression
BIPOLAR II: Major depression and hypomania
BIPOLAR III: Cyclothymia. Mild depression and hypomania
BIPOLAR IV: Depression and usually no mania. Mania may be triggered by some
antidepressants.BIPOLAR V: Depression and no mania. Some blood relatives have had mania
BIPOLAR VI: Mania and no depression
The following description is a form of bipolar disorder that is due to be included in the new DSM V."Bipolar V involves patients who only experience depressive symptoms as a diagnosis of major depressive disorder, but have a family history of bipolar disorder. The knowledge of bipolar disorder existing in family history would suggest starting depression treatment with a mood-stabilizer or an antipsychotic that treats depression. Because of the family history, if a patient was started on an antidepressant it could easily act as the trigger for developing bipolar because it produced manic symptoms (type IV). In family studies, the link between genetics and mental disorder has been proven to be strong. Patients should remember that genetics doesn't doom them to developing a disorder, there must be a trigger."
> I'll definitely look more into Prazosin. Do you feel like it's helped mood-wise
Yes. :-)
> bad memory-wise
Yes. :-)
> sleep-wise
Yes. :-)
> etc?
Yes. :-)
My sleep is better, but still somewhat disturbed, presumably as a result of my taking Parnate.
> As I mentioned before I'm an abuse survivor so it's definitely something to think about, I just have doubts about a blood pressure med doing much for the suicidal depression that is most troubling right now.
Prazosin is not a blood pressure medication. It is a chemical compound with blood pressure lowering properties. It also has other properties, including reducing PTSD symptoms, especially sleep disturbances and nightmares. It also seems to help with daytime anxiety and depression.
I almost didn't try prazosin because I thought my doctor was reaching for sh_t. I didn't believe that it would help, but I didn't think it would hurt. So, I let my doctor take his shot.
Prazosin blocks all three types of norepinephrine receptors: NE alpha-1a/b/d receptors.
Prazosin readily enters the brain.
Prazosin might block the NE alpha-1b receptors found in areas of the brain known to be hyperactive in depression. This is just a theory of mine. One site that I am interested in is the subgenual anterior cingulate Brodmanns Area 25.
After being on prazosin for awhile, I do not experience dizziness, despite being on Parnate.
Prazosin can produce fatigue, weakness, and lethargy early in treatment. These things disappeared within two weeks.
------------------------------------
In an effort to gather more evidence for my theory to relate to you, I just found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18704022
"In positron emission tomography studies, the metabolic activity was elevated in this region in the depressed relative to the remitted phases of the same MDD subjects, and effective antidepressant treatment was associated with a reduction in sgACC activity"
I think prazosin might act to "quiet" this elevated metabolic activity in the sgACC (subgenual anterior cingulate cortex).
------------------------------------
- Scott
Posted by Toph on March 12, 2012, at 15:19:03
In reply to Lou's response-dhaweihgzofpsyn-Li, posted by Lou Pilder on March 10, 2012, at 16:43:23
>
> Friends,
> Here is the link for lithium causing death
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/deathApproximately 0.1% of Americans take lithium. That's roughly 3,131,000 people. According to Lou's site 14 people on average die from lithium annually. I tried to figure a percentage but my calculator can't handle that small a percentage. It is essentially mortality rate of zero.
Posted by sigismund on March 12, 2012, at 19:15:38
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!), posted by kagome on March 11, 2012, at 0:59:00
>Do you feel like it's helped mood-wise,
It feels calming to me next day.
>bad memory-wise,No problem with that.
>sleep-wise,etc?Helpful for sleep. It has diminished the startle response when I wake in the night.
>As I mentioned before I'm an abuse survivor so it's definitely something to think about, I just have doubts about a blood pressure med doing much for the suicidal depression that is most troubling right now.It is surprisingly psychoactive, but I don't know about suicidal depression.
You did not say how you slept before starting Parnate. How did you sleep?
Posted by sigismund on March 12, 2012, at 19:17:52
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) » kagome, posted by sigismund on March 12, 2012, at 19:15:38
Actually, the way prazosin feels to me next day is a little similar to the calm I felt from agomelatine when it was working at the beginning.
Posted by SLS on March 12, 2012, at 19:42:52
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!), posted by sigismund on March 12, 2012, at 19:17:52
> Actually, the way prazosin feels to me next day is a little similar to the calm I felt from agomelatine when it was working at the beginning.
That's very encouraging.
- Scott
Posted by JohnLA on March 12, 2012, at 23:50:14
In reply to Re: Lou's response-dhaweihgzofpsyn-Li » Lou Pilder, posted by Toph on March 12, 2012, at 15:19:03
<Approximately 0.1% of Americans take lithium. That's roughly 3,131,000 people. According to Lou's site 14 people on average die from lithium annually. I tried to figure a percentage but my calculator can't handle that small a percentage. It is essentially mortality rate of zero.>
toph; i used to teach math. percentages and decimals always were the hardest for the kids to understand and compute. 1% of americans is 3,131,000. .1% is 3,331.
1% as a decimal is 0.01. as a fraction it's 1/100. so, 0.1% as a decimal would be 0.001 and as a fraction it would be 1/1000.
sorry for the math lesson. i'm thinking you meant 1% of americans are on lithium?
curious if i'm right! :)
Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 13:47:26
In reply to Lou's response-dhthkalz » kagome, posted by Lou Pilder on March 10, 2012, at 16:17:40
You are ignorant and educated, people do not want to hear your psychotic scare tactics, please keep your disrespectful posts to yourself. Many people have warned you and are sick and tired of your crazy rants, if I was the board owner I would have banned you a long time ago and many others would agree
Posted by kagome on March 13, 2012, at 15:08:29
In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) » kagome, posted by sigismund on March 12, 2012, at 19:15:38
> You did not say how you slept before starting Parnate. How did you sleep?Well to be honest I probably slept as much before as I did after, but before it was more like, "I cannot get out of bed and face another day." Then I just laid in bed and basically bored myself back to sleep for about 10-12 hours a day. But once I got up I would be up until late at night. After Parnate, I still sleep in but also get bone-weary and blood-tired (as they say) every early afternoon - usually only a few hours after being up - and I would nap until evening. That was probably more information than you were looking for, but thanks for asking!
Actually, surprisingly enough I seem to be doing a little better. I'm not sure if it's the Parnate, which I started titrating down because my blood pressure skyrocketed and stayed there, or the Abilify I started, but I'm guessing the latter or maybe a little of both. Now that Parnate seems to be working at least a little I have to figure out whether it's worth the side effects...
Anyway, thanks for your response!
Posted by Toph on March 13, 2012, at 15:20:18
In reply to @toph, posted by JohnLA on March 12, 2012, at 23:50:14
> sorry for the math lesson. i'm thinking you meant 1% of americans are on lithium?
>
> curious if i'm right! :)"Approximately 0.1% of the US population is undergoing lithium treatment for psychiatric problems." -Medscape
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/242772-overview#a0199
The US Census bureau puts the US population at about 313,000,000.
I hope I did the rest of the math right John.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:44:11
In reply to @toph, posted by JohnLA on March 12, 2012, at 23:50:14
Friends,
The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
Lou
here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt
Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 16:50:03
In reply to Lou's response- » JohnLA, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:44:11
You are ridiculous and your posts make no sense at all. All this info your posting is a bunch of BS. Why don't you just stop
> Friends,
> The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> Lou
> here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:50:28
In reply to Lou's response- » JohnLA, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:44:11
> Friends,
> The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> Lou
> here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attemptFriends,
Now let us look at the stats for those that take lithium and were sucessful at killing themselves. Then we could see more about the number of deaths in relation to taking lithium
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+completed.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:58:20
In reply to Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:50:28
> > Friends,
> > The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> > Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> > Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> > Lou
> > here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt
>
> Friends,
> Now let us look at the stats for those that take lithium and were sucessful at killing themselves. Then we could see more about the number of deaths in relation to taking lithium
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+completed.Friends,
Now let's see what the stats are for completed suicide by using a different search.
In the previous, I used {suicide+completed}}. Now let's see what the stats are if useing {completed+suicide]..Watch me now.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium/completed+suicide
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 17:02:33
In reply to Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme/confuz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:58:20
> > > Friends,
> > > The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> > > Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> > > Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> > > Lou
> > > here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> > > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt
> >
> > Friends,
> > Now let us look at the stats for those that take lithium and were sucessful at killing themselves. Then we could see more about the number of deaths in relation to taking lithium
> > Lou
> > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+completed.
>
> Friends,
> Now let's see what the stats are for completed suicide by using a different search.
> In the previous, I used {suicide+completed}}. Now let's see what the stats are if useing {completed+suicide]..Watch me now.
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium/completed+suicideFriends,
You see, the site has some issues in relation to how the earch is done.
Now let's see the corrected link as to the real number of people that killed themselves while taking Lithium. This also goes to the member that was confused with the site
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/completed+suicide
Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 17:41:16
In reply to Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme/confuz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:58:20
Honestly guys I think it would be best if everyone ignored Lou, if he's not getting the attention he seems to thrive off of he might stop posting. Just a thought
Posted by Beckett on March 13, 2012, at 20:16:59
In reply to Everyone should ignore Lou Pilder, posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 17:41:16
I don't know. That feels a bit too divisive to be positive.
I wince to think of my own name in the thread header.
Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 20:36:36
In reply to Should everyone ignore anyone, posted by Beckett on March 13, 2012, at 20:16:59
> I don't know. That feels a bit too divisive to be positive.
>
> I wince to think of my own name in the thread header.Well considering Lou brings nothing to the table but negativity and problems I don't see why that's so out of the question
Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 22:23:46
In reply to Re: Should everyone ignore anyone, posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 20:36:36
Posted by oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 22:36:58
In reply to And you're bringing what, exactly? (nm) » Oioioi123, posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 22:23:46
i ALWAYS try to help people to the best of my ability and give them respectfull and honest advice in a friendly manner with belittling them for takeing medications thank you very much. I go out of my way to try and help people in a time of need and provide them any advice i can cause i have been in very tough spots in my life. So that my friend is what i bring. I would NEVER put someone down in a time of need or ostracize them for using medication and quite frankly I dont appreciate your insinuation. Everybody has had enough of the way Lou treats people, i would NEVER make someone feel the way he makes others feel. Have a good night
Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 23:23:39
In reply to excuse me)?, posted by oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 22:36:58
Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 23:30:57
In reply to and you're making Lou feel how, exactly? (nm) » oioioi123, posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 23:23:39
Lou doesn't seem to get it. Why don't you have the gull to actually MSG me. I don't really care how I'm makeing Lou feel to be perfect honest, I'm tired of seeing him belittle people and be extremely disrespectfull. I would never treat someone in a time of need like that. So say what you want garden girl I have no guilt here about how I'm acting towards him. It's about time someone stuck up for the members on the board Have a wonderfull night, I don't think we have anything more to say to each other ok? You obviously haven't been around long enough to see how he treats people
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