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Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 13:36:58
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:36:28
>http://www.lef.org/protocols/immune_connective_joint/fibromyalgia_01.htm
>
> You can get that stuff that is supposed to boost ATP. Tomotheus was taking it at one point. Some of those natural ways of boosting energy don't feel too good, like benfotiamine. It is supposed to treat neurasthenia.thanks for the link. It was good to review. I can easily add blueberries to my diet. I'm pretty good on the omegas. Didn't
know about the malic acid. True, some of the alt ways of boosting energy are intolerable. I have to be careful. What was it--oh, glutatamate or something like it was given to me by a doctor. It was like poison to me. Took me a few weeks to figure it out.My hope is that there is the remission factor. For now, I seem to be worsening. I get frightened. The fatigue is the worst. If it was pain alone, I would arm wrestle my docs for pain pills, but I have some old hydrocodiene which I take very sparingly to avoid dependence but it does not touch the fatigue. It also does very little toward that creeping level of despair.
To get a doctor to take this seriously is difficult. A hormone panel as suggested in the link would be great. II would need to find a reliable alt doc I imagine. Most docs here look at my history and say she's just depressed, etc, etc. Or fibromyalgia, take two aleve, walk every day and see me in three months (as one doc really said to me for $750).
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 14:16:07
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:40:07
To adequately describe the fatigue, it's mental dullness, too, an inability to focus, a massive loss of IQ points. It f*cks with long and short term memory storage and working memory. My tolerance for stress, even happy stress gets blown up. It sucks it sucks it sucks.
See? And I live with one of the liveliest, most enthusiastic young fellows on the planet. I want to enjoy him.
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2012, at 18:44:09
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 14:16:07
Goggle your area and bioidentical hormone theraphy. As I'm sure there is a doc that does either saliva, blood or both? Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 22:34:20
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2012, at 18:44:09
Thanks for the suggestion, Phillipa. I don't understand enough about hormones so feel reticent to try that at this point. I would like to find a reputable alt/western doc.
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 22:43:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 22:34:20
Phillipa, by reputable alt/western doc I meant an all-around sort of doctor rather than an hormone specialist.... Maybe one who would know enough to look at hormones or enough at least to farm that part out to someone.
Posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 23:12:48
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:40:07
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1476-9255/5/9
Speaking of inflammatory cytokines.
LEF has a sale on pomegranate right now, $6 a bottle.
I thought that spinal chord thing was interesting because of your cesar and what went with it.
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2012, at 23:58:39
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 23:12:48
Sigi you can help alternative. PJx
Posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 8:28:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 23:12:48
> http://www.biomedcentral.com/1476-9255/5/9
>
> Speaking of inflammatory cytokines.
>
> LEF has a sale on pomegranate right now, $6 a bottle.
Oh sigi, the link is down. I don't understand cytokines, but I have some time today to do some research. LEF recommended blueberry extract. Is that not the same thing as pomegranate sort of? Thank you.
Posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 12:32:15
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » sigismund, posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 8:28:44
The link is working now. Thank you.
Posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 13:33:25
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 12:32:15
Tumour necrosis alpha is one cytokine. Nice name.
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2012, at 18:49:07
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 13:33:25
Sigi so what do you take? PJ
Posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 19:10:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2012, at 18:49:07
>Sigi so what do you take?
Well, I haven't been particularly successful, you know, so I am reluctant to recommend anything, but what interests me is stuff like curcumin, grape seed and resveratrol, pomegranate, boswellia and stuff like that. If only because I have arthritis (curcumin, boswellia).
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2012, at 21:05:38
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 19:10:44
Sigi definitely have arthritis no trampolines anymore, and back degenerative spurs, stenosis, getting old isn't for the weak. I wear an elasticised wrap to ride bike take it off and I feel my backbone collapse. And that is it for me. And I need to do so much. Spare parts are what I need. PJ
Posted by bleauberry on March 8, 2012, at 16:05:17
In reply to Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
For the depression:
Rhodiola Rosea or
Rhodiola rosea + Puerarin.In addition to that, I believe any kind of potential success in treating FM, CFS, or lyme....which all look very similar to each other....needs a multiangle approach. That includes:
antimicrobials
antiinflammatories
antitoxins
proimmune
treat symptomsMost people only do the last on that list. Doing them all I believe greatly improves the chances of success.
A sample cocktail might be something like,
chlorella, garlic to tolerance, berberine plants, japanese knotweed, cat's claw, HH capsule. A good choice of others as well. Many of these cover the entire list of strategies all in one.So anyway, I do not have strong faith in using only pharamceuticals or in treating only symptoms. Certainly try what you can to improve quality of life in the short run and if that means meds that's fine. It's just that they can work a lot better with the herbs and foster an improved longterm effect, in addition to removing or resisting the actual hidden disease states causing it all.
So ok, I have failed almost every med you can name, a ton of herbs and supplements, and failed ECT, multiple doctors, a couple decades, tens of thousands of dollars, and guess what, my best antidepressants ended up being things like antibiotics, antitoxins, and antiinflammatories.
We just don't know enough at this time in history. But even if we don't know exactly what we have, why it is, or how it happens, we know things that can work based on clinical experiences.
> If so, what medications are working as antidepressants and analgesics? I am trying to keep my medications minimal as possible. Fatigue is a major symptom. Right now I am on emsam and want to convince myself then my doc that an ssri might give me more flexibility for pain management. I have 100 mg of topiramate on board as mood stabilizer and pain relief.
>
> Cymbalta, savella, and lyrica are out. I respond well to effexor, but worry it might be destabilizing. Plus my doc may say yikes! Ultram ER was good when I last took it about a year ago. I was thinking that and a light ssri like viibryd...?
>
> How do you manage? My depressions can get pretty bad....
Posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 17:56:55
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by bleauberry on March 8, 2012, at 16:05:17
>We just don't know enough at this time in history. But even if we don't know exactly what we have, why it is, or how it happens, we know things that can work based on clinical experiences.
Yes, I think so. Very agreed. Thanks BB. I appreciate your input.
What is an HH capsule?
I have a few herbals/supplements onboard or in the queue. I have to take it easy with those and introduce them slowly. They can be pretty strong, though not in the obvious way of a pharmaceutical.
Posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:08:45
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by bleauberry on March 8, 2012, at 16:05:17
>Puerarin.
What's that? Not something to do with puera tea? I will look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerarin
It's kudzu, useful to cut the desire for drink. among other things.
Posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:14:18
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:08:45
>Puerarin is a 5-HT2C receptor and benzodiazepine site antagonist.[2]
They must mean bzd agonist? It is calming.
On a bottle I have: 'In TCM, pueraria releases the muscles and clears the heat.'
Posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 18:22:23
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:14:18
> >Puerarin is a 5-HT2C receptor and benzodiazepine site antagonist.[2]
>
> They must mean bzd agonist? It is calming.
>
> On a bottle I have: 'In TCM, pueraria releases the muscles and clears the heat.'Maybe not. Maybe an antagonist. Sometimes it works flippy floppy. I am way beyond my knowledge limit here :)
Thanks for highlighting this....
Posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 18:23:41
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:14:18
I recall kudzu flour being stirred into a tea and given to children.
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2012, at 21:05:42
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 18:23:41
Kudzu grows rampant all over here. At one time they had said good for alchoholism. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2012, at 14:21:09
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » bleauberry, posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 17:56:55
>
> What is an HH capsule?HH capsule is Houttuynia, a plant from Traditional Chinese Medicine known primarily as a broad spectrum antimicrobial. Leprosy, candida, lyme, syphilus, most common pathogens....effective with a wide range of all of them. Dr Zhang of New York has extracts made from it that focus on the deconyl aceteldehyde component of it, which is the primary pathogen killer in the plant. I've tried a ton of herbs and probably all of the antimicrobials I am aware of, and I put HH capsule (that's what Zhang calls them) near the top of the list. I also like the berberine containing plants....the best is Coptis root, also from Zhang, but others include goldenseal, billberry, and oregon grape root. If you can tolerate smelling like a garlic clove, there is nothing more potent....herbs or meds....against pathogens than lots of raw garlic. I can't tolerate it, but once in a while will chew a clove at the end of a meal, and boy it's like stirring up a hornets nest....all those hidden pathogens come out screaming!
You're not the only one that has to take it easy with plant medicines. Me too. Many people are like that. The reason is because some of them are indeed quite potent at what they do, even more potent than meds. The benefits however are they are broad spectrum....antimicrobial, antiinflammation, all in one, multiple (as in dozens) of active chemical constituents and mechanisms in a single leaf, root or flower, and in most cases extremely low toxicity if any. When chronic disease is involved, rather than merely maintaining good health and protecting oneself from illness, then yeah we tend to need to start with very low doses, tiny miniscule doses not uncommon, and then work up over weeks and months to higher doses.
Cat's Claw tincture in lyme is a good example. Many people can't even handle a single drop. They had to take a quarter of a drop to start with. Later down the road they could take 10 drops no problem, but in the beginning even a single drop was too much. I used to wonder, how the heck does someone make a 1/4 of a drop? Stupid me. Put it in a glass of water, stir it well, and drink a 1/4 of the glass. Duhhh!
>
> I have a few herbals/supplements onboard or in the queue. I have to take it easy with those and introduce them slowly. They can be pretty strong, though not in the obvious way of a pharmaceutical.
Posted by Beckett on March 9, 2012, at 15:36:41
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2012, at 14:21:09
When using a plant based antimicrobial such as HH, does one need to balance it out with extra probiotics such as when one takes an antibiotic?
>Put it in a glass of water, stir it well, and drink 1/4 of the glass. Duhhh!
:-)
Not sure how long that would have taken me to figure out....
Posted by torrid2 on March 11, 2012, at 12:52:44
In reply to Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
neurontin is helping me. I take cymbalta too but I think the neurontin of the combo is what is the most helpful to me.
Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2012, at 20:13:23
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on March 11, 2012, at 12:52:44
I must say cymbalta did at least hide my back pain when on it. When went off there it was. Phillipa
Posted by creepy on March 14, 2012, at 8:29:25
In reply to Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
topamax is really good with fibro pain, for me anyhow. I was able to use a smaller dose along with an old TCA that works well on pain and fatigue - desipramine.
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