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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 22:16:56
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 21:55:02
Sig,
That's a nice place to live, but what if you want a Big Mack?
Lou
Posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 22:36:34
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 22:16:56
Well, I could live without Big Macs really easily, especially if I had access to good herbs. Maybe Peru? No need for ADHD meds there. Lots of coca tea, coca chewing and long walks. I might move. Pay half the tax and get out of Australia. Win/win situation.
After the first beer of the day (after 3pm, I am proud to say) this arrived in the mail
http://www.planetaryherbals.com/products/GP1535/
I took a double dose. Alcohol interferes with what is left of my sleep. It might work.
Posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 22:41:02
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 22:36:34
>Based on a 350-year old Chinese herbal formula for "drunkenness"
I like that.
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 4:58:22
In reply to Lou's Little Shoppe » sleepygirl2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 22:15:35
> Well, maybe you could stop in and we could talk about the art and archeology of the Near East and Mesopotamia.
> Lou
I would like to learn about that stuff, too.I probably won't make a habit out of changing the subject line along your threads so as to include my name. I just wanted to see how it looked.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 6:36:01
In reply to Scott's response » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 4:58:22
Here is a publication posted by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). It deals with the usage of antidepressants in children and adolescents.
I feel that it is best to avoid the use of antidepressants in children whenever possible. I don't like the idea of exposing a rapidly-developing brain to antidepressants. These drugs are not as efficacious as they are in adults,and they may produce suicidal thinking at a higher rate when compared to that seen in adult depression. However, if other modalities of therapy have been exhausted, or the depression is severe enough, antidepressants will prevent more suicides than they will precipitate.
I think doctors ought to monitor patients very closely early in antidepressant treatment so as to screen for suicidal thinking due to:
1. A worsening of depression.
2. An improvement of depression.#2 would seem counterintuitive at first glance. This phenomenon is well-known and has been labeled roll back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant
Of course, I left in the requests for citations and the comment "weasel words".
"Patients with depression are at greatest risk for suicide immediately after treatment has begun, as antidepressants can reduce the symptoms of depression such as psychomotor retardation or lack of motivation before mood starts to improve.[citation needed] Although this appears paradoxical, studies [which?] indicate that suicidal ideation is a relatively common [weasel words] at the start of antidepressant therapy, and it may be especially common in younger patients such as pre-adolescents and teenagers. Manufacturers and physicians often recommend that other family members and loved ones monitor the young patient's behavior for any signs of suicidal ideation or behaviors, especially in the first eight weeks of therapy."
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 6:38:24
In reply to Re: Scott's response » SLS, posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 6:36:01
> Here is a publication posted by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). It deals with the usage of antidepressants in children and adolescents.
>
> http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml
>
> I feel that it is best to avoid the use of antidepressants in children whenever possible. I don't like the idea of exposing a rapidly-developing brain to antidepressants. These drugs are not as efficacious as they are in adults,and they may produce suicidal thinking at a higher rate when compared to that seen in adult depression. However, if other modalities of therapy have been exhausted, or the depression is severe enough, antidepressants will prevent more suicides than they will precipitate.
>
> I think doctors ought to monitor patients very closely early in antidepressant treatment so as to screen for suicidal thinking due to:
>
> 1. A worsening of depression.
> 2. An improvement of depression.
>
> #2 would seem counterintuitive at first glance. This phenomenon is well-known and has been labeled roll back.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant
>
> Of course, I left in the requests for citations and the comment "weasel words".
>
> "Patients with depression are at greatest risk for suicide immediately after treatment has begun, as antidepressants can reduce the symptoms of depression such as psychomotor retardation or lack of motivation before mood starts to improve.[citation needed] Although this appears paradoxical, studies [which?] indicate that suicidal ideation is a relatively common [weasel words] at the start of antidepressant therapy, and it may be especially common in younger patients such as pre-adolescents and teenagers. Manufacturers and physicians often recommend that other family members and loved ones monitor the young patient's behavior for any signs of suicidal ideation or behaviors, especially in the first eight weeks of therapy."
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2012, at 7:15:31
In reply to Scott's response. Above post meant for » Everyone, posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 6:38:24
>
> > Here is a publication posted by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). It deals with the usage of antidepressants in children and adolescents.
> >
> > http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml
> >
> > I feel that it is best to avoid the use of antidepressants in children whenever possible. I don't like the idea of exposing a rapidly-developing brain to antidepressants. These drugs are not as efficacious as they are in adults,and they may produce suicidal thinking at a higher rate when compared to that seen in adult depression. However, if other modalities of therapy have been exhausted, or the depression is severe enough, antidepressants will prevent more suicides than they will precipitate.
> >
> > I think doctors ought to monitor patients very closely early in antidepressant treatment so as to screen for suicidal thinking due to:
> >
> > 1. A worsening of depression.
> > 2. An improvement of depression.
> >
> > #2 would seem counterintuitive at first glance. This phenomenon is well-known and has been labeled roll back.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant
> >
> > Of course, I left in the requests for citations and the comment "weasel words".
> >
> > "Patients with depression are at greatest risk for suicide immediately after treatment has begun, as antidepressants can reduce the symptoms of depression such as psychomotor retardation or lack of motivation before mood starts to improve.[citation needed] Although this appears paradoxical, studies [which?] indicate that suicidal ideation is a relatively common [weasel words] at the start of antidepressant therapy, and it may be especially common in younger patients such as pre-adolescents and teenagers. Manufacturers and physicians often recommend that other family members and loved ones monitor the young patient's behavior for any signs of suicidal ideation or behaviors, especially in the first eight weeks of therapy."
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
If you are interested in this thread's discussion, I am requesting that you read Scott's post here and view the following video.
Lou
To view this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, antidepressant induced suicide, one mother's]
usually first
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2012, at 7:25:42
In reply to Lou's response-Thanks Scott » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2012, at 7:15:31
Hi Lou.
Thank you for starting your own thread. I look forward to your contributions.
I still welcome your participation along other threads as well.
Sincerely,
Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2012, at 9:39:24
In reply to Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 20:30:44
Hi Lou I love your little Shoppe also what a great idea. I feel a lot of people will visit your Shoppe. Kind of like a store or library you visit for talk and ideas Thanks for starting it. Phillipa
ps are you charging admission? Just Kidding!!!
Posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2012, at 12:06:26
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2012, at 9:39:24
Lou do you know or have any thoughts on slowing down a mind that is already thinking I should be moving faster but I'm not body slow mind is on the go. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 14:43:15
In reply to Lou's Little Shoppe » sleepygirl2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 22:15:35
> Well, maybe you could stop in and we could talk about the art and archeology of the Near East and Mesopotamia.
> Louwell, i just wanted to stop by and show-off a little...
as a greek and a dude that taught art history for many years i'll give you this little tidbit;
mesopotamia = 'land between 2 rivers' in both ancient greek and modern greek. the ancient greeks looked to the ancient near east (and egypt) as cultured civilizations and took many of their ideas as springboards in creating 'western civ.' this isn't covered much in US curriculum.
many of the 7 wonders of the ancient world were located in these parts.
now modern greece is a whole different topic! there is a good ancient greek word to describe it's current state; katastrophia = catastrophe.
lou- i'm with you on the meds. i don't think any of us here want to take 'em. but, for some they are life saving. others, maybe not.
john
Posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 14:53:23
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 14:43:15
lou-
we had this discussion before;
what are some of the things a person with depression can do besides taking serious mind-altering drugs? there are several items i bet you could tell us.
since i feel 'a little love' in this thread of yours i ask you you to pull-up the following video and tell me what it does for your mood as compared to medication;
john
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2012, at 15:43:13
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2012, at 12:06:26
> Lou do you know or have any thoughts on slowing down a mind that is already thinking I should be moving faster but I'm not body slow mind is on the go. Thanks Phillipa
Phillipa,
In your question above, there is a way to have a quiet mind, a slower mind, a mind of peace.
Many of you already know what I have posted here concerning the mind. And if not, here is what has been revealed to me concerning the mind.
It has been revealed to me that there are two minds. We are born with a mind of flesh, a natural mind. But there is another mind. A mind of the spirit, a spiritual mind. The mind of the flesh, the carnal mind, operates in accordance with particular needs and wants. The spirital mind operates differently.
Now I have talked here about the world. While in the world, it has bbeen revealed to me that it is a life where there is tribulation and death. It has been revealed to me that the world is all that can be seen and there are people of the world, and people of the spirit. The spiritual mind can have peace, a different type of peace than the world people have. It is a peace that goes beyond understanding. It is a peace that overcomes all that is in the world and there is life and life more abundantly. This peace one can be in so that the mind can be stayed.
And many of you know about the Rider on the White Horse. And in that encounter that I had with Him, He said to me, "These things I have spoken to you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2012, at 15:54:50
In reply to Re: Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 14:43:15
>
> > Well, maybe you could stop in and we could talk about the art and archeology of the Near East and Mesopotamia.
> > Lou
>
> well, i just wanted to stop by and show-off a little...
>
> as a greek and a dude that taught art history for many years i'll give you this little tidbit;
>
> mesopotamia = 'land between 2 rivers' in both ancient greek and modern greek. the ancient greeks looked to the ancient near east (and egypt) as cultured civilizations and took many of their ideas as springboards in creating 'western civ.' this isn't covered much in US curriculum.
>
> many of the 7 wonders of the ancient world were located in these parts.
>
> now modern greece is a whole different topic! there is a good ancient greek word to describe it's current state; katastrophia = catastrophe.
>
> lou- i'm with you on the meds. i don't think any of us here want to take 'em. but, for some they are life saving. others, maybe not.
>
> john
>
> John
I took a class called The History of the Art and Archeology of the Near East and Mesopotamia. It was requierd and was the greatest class that I ever had. The Minoans, Crete, Greece, Egypt and the land between the two rivers and more. It was mostly slides and films.
Another class that I took that was interesting, if anyone else here would like to talk about, was: "The anatomy and physiology of ferns and mosses". An elective.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2012, at 15:57:31
In reply to music better than meds?, posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 14:53:23
> lou-
>
> we had this discussion before;
>
> what are some of the things a person with depression can do besides taking serious mind-altering drugs? there are several items i bet you could tell us.
>
> since i feel 'a little love' in this thread of yours i ask you you to pull-up the following video and tell me what it does for your mood as compared to medication;
>
> http://youtu.be/k1odvp-_bhk
>
> johnjohn,
Jackie Wilson preceded many of the icons in RocknRo...I do not think that he has received the recognition that he deserves. Thanks for the vid...brought back memories..
Lou
Posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 16:40:44
In reply to music better than meds?, posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 14:53:23
A lot of people cope with depression by listening to music.
I have been doing it all my life. Classical, Leonard Cohen....too many to mention.
Posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 17:14:48
In reply to Re: music better than meds?, posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 16:40:44
> A lot of people cope with depression by listening to music.
>
> I have been doing it all my life. Classical, Leonard Cohen....too many to mention.so very true sigi. i also taught music history for over 25 years. a true test of anhedonia is not 'feeling' the music you once loved. it's a double-edged sword for me. i also cry a lot more because music was my life in many ways and i cannot emotionally connect to it now. if i separate my lack of emotional response i find it absolutely bizarre that something that once touched me so very deeply makes me feel nothing except a longing that seems to have disappeared. i'm not crying due to the sadness, but due to the emptiness that has replaced something i loved so much.
i have read that it's not 'depression' unless you have anhedonia. well, i got it and it sucks.
john
Posted by Solstice on February 22, 2012, at 17:40:47
In reply to Lou's Little Shoppe-zoaner » Solstice, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 21:29:26
> > Solstice,
> The zoning commisioner has prohibitions here.
> Lou
Yeah he does. But zoning ordinances are designed to maintain the characteristics of the jurisdiction. Where I live, zoning regulations include that residential lots must have a minimum of 75' of frontage (which is significantly larger than most places), and restaurants cannot serve alcohol.So, if you own a restaurant and want to serve alcohol, you can go to a jurisdiction that allows it. Or, if you want to serve alcohol in this jurisdiction, you may have to invite people to your private 'home' (babblemail/email) where it is not disallowed.
Solstice
Posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 19:17:39
In reply to Re: music better than meds?, posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 17:14:48
That's why I have never tried SSRIs.
Not that I am suggesting anything about your history, but I have heard enough here.
Anyway, I think life is tragic and sadness is the most sane and humane response.
Posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2012, at 20:12:20
In reply to Re: music better than meds? » JohnLA, posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 19:17:39
Sigi it was wonderful for me for all the years up to about 50. Then it started. So I know happiness, joy, having so much fun, and lots of hard work loving every minute of it. PJx
Posted by papillon2 on February 22, 2012, at 22:13:49
In reply to Re: music better than meds?, posted by JohnLA on February 22, 2012, at 17:14:48
> so very true sigi. i also taught music history for over 25 years. a true test of anhedonia is not 'feeling' the music you once loved. it's a double-edged sword for me. i also cry a lot more because music was my life in many ways and i cannot emotionally connect to it now. if i separate my lack of emotional response i find it absolutely bizarre that something that once touched me so very deeply makes me feel nothing except a longing that seems to have disappeared. i'm not crying due to the sadness, but due to the emptiness that has replaced something i loved so much.
>
> i have read that it's not 'depression' unless you have anhedonia. well, i got it and it sucks.
>
> johnI played the piano for many years and was reasonably accomplished. I have barely touched it since my first episode of major depression in 2004. Brain's too slow, I have zero interest, and it makes me more painfully aware of all I have lost. Strangely enough, I regained interest in piano and ballet dancing (another life-long pleasure) for a short period of time while on Remeron. But that discussion is for a different thread. ;-)
So in answer to Lou's question:
- exercise
- sunlight
- psychotherapy
- forcing yourself to do things you aren't interested in but ordinarily would be (e.g. getting out of bed or out of the house, spending time with friends)
- nutritious diet
- supplements such as omega 3
- meditation, unless it makes you more depressed or anxious (possible!)I believe in chucking everything at depression.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 22, 2012, at 22:15:02
In reply to Re: music better than meds?, posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 16:40:44
I know! I need to constantly remind myself that music is an integral part of any effective treatment plan for me.
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2012, at 17:37:39
In reply to Lou's Little Shoppe, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2012, at 20:30:44
> > I invite any feedback from anyone who has any info about Saphris!
> >
> > Solstice> Solstice,
You wrote,[...I invite any feedback from anyone...].
The subject here is the use of the drug {Saphris}.
The drug has a constituant in it that was used as a gas in riot control in the 50's.
LouLou Pilder.
You posted this statement along another thread. The original poster had asked for info about Saphris. It is my contention that you failed to do this. I don't see any information. I see words. I challenge you to prove your words. If you cannot, you might want to apologize to the person to whom you directed it for posting misinformation.
There is so much more to this.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2012, at 22:45:29
In reply to Scott's post » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on February 23, 2012, at 17:37:39
> > > I invite any feedback from anyone who has any info about Saphris!
> > >
> > > Solstice
>
> > Solstice,
> You wrote,[...I invite any feedback from anyone...].
> The subject here is the use of the drug {Saphris}.
> The drug has a constituant in it that was used as a gas in riot control in the 50's.
> Lou
>
> Lou Pilder.
>
> You posted this statement along another thread. The original poster had asked for info about Saphris. It is my contention that you failed to do this. I don't see any information. I see words. I challenge you to prove your words. If you cannot, you might want to apologize to the person to whom you directed it for posting misinformation.
>
> There is so much more to this.
>
>
> - Scott
>Scott,
You wrote that you think that I failed to give information concerning Saphris. The information that I gave was that Saphris has a constituant in it that was used as a gas in riot control in the 50's. You have asked me for more information concerning the words seen in that post in another thread.
In order to have more information concerning the gas used in riot control in the 50's, I would like to start with Benzene.
Benzene usually comes from coal tar or petroleum. You can hydroxylate benzene and get {phenol}. From phenol you can get {phenyl}.
Now benzene can cause leukemia and other cancers and break chromosomes. Benzene is used in a lot of manufacturing of products including rubber, pesticides, drugs and explosives.
Benzene is cancerous when breathed in the air. Benzene can also be injested and cause cancer and death. Benzene rings can be chemically coupled.
Benzene was discoverd hundreds of years ago. The toxic properties and the carcinogenic properties of benzene were not proven until the early 1900's
I intend to finish this unless the rule of 3 applies.
Lou
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2012, at 5:14:53
In reply to Lou's reply-nervgaz » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2012, at 22:45:29
> > > > I invite any feedback from anyone who has any info about Saphris!
> > > >
> > > > Solstice
> >
> > > Solstice,
> > You wrote,[...I invite any feedback from anyone...].
> > The subject here is the use of the drug {Saphris}.
> > The drug has a constituant in it that was used as a gas in riot control in the 50's.
> > Lou
> >
> > Lou Pilder.
> >
> > You posted this statement along another thread. The original poster had asked for info about Saphris. It is my contention that you failed to do this. I don't see any information. I see words. I challenge you to prove your words. If you cannot, you might want to apologize to the person to whom you directed it for posting misinformation.
> >
> > There is so much more to this.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Scott,
> You wrote that you think that I failed to give information concerning Saphris. The information that I gave was that Saphris has a constituant in it that was used as a gas in riot control in the 50's. You have asked me for more information concerning the words seen in that post in another thread.
> In order to have more information concerning the gas used in riot control in the 50's, I would like to start with Benzene.We have been through this before. The properties of a molecule are not equal to the sum of its parts. Asenapine is NOT metabolized into benzene in the body. Therefore, no one is exposed to benzene for taking asenapine.
I find it disappointing that you should continually post with such confidence the workings of organic chemistry when the things you post are so inaccurate.
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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