![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mogger on January 30, 2012, at 21:36:37
I thought this was quite interesting to listen to today. You can listen to the discussion at the top of the page.
Posted by JohnLA on January 30, 2012, at 21:47:27
In reply to NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by mogger on January 30, 2012, at 21:36:37
hey mogger-
hope you are doing ok my dear neighbor.
i heard this today as well...
wonder what the reality/timeline will be of it becoming available.
john
Posted by mogger on January 30, 2012, at 22:03:01
In reply to Re: NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by JohnLA on January 30, 2012, at 21:47:27
My man John! I have been wondering how you are doing! Are you happy with your new psychiatrist? Have you heard of the drug riluzole being used for depression? I had a a very positive experience with it and thought i might mention it to you to perhaps discuss with your psychiatrist. It is mentioned in an article along with ketamine that is why i am mentioning it. It takes a while to start working (9 weeks for full effect for me) but it was worth the wait. I hope you are doing better john,
Joseph
Posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2012, at 22:55:12
In reply to NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by mogger on January 30, 2012, at 21:36:37
I've also read of it. And it seems that what was considered psychydelic drugs are becoming the drugs that work. Just like now marijuana or magic mushrooms read that also. Phillipa
Posted by Hugh on January 31, 2012, at 13:00:57
In reply to Re: NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by JohnLA on January 30, 2012, at 21:47:27
Dr. David Feifel at UCSD Medical Center is using ketamine NOW to treat depression. A single IV infusion of ketamine alleviates depression for about a week. At UCSD, they're giving multiple infusions of ketamine over several weeks, hoping that this will have long-lasting benefits.
A video (and a transcript) of Dr. Feifel discussing the use of ketamine for depression is at this site:
Posted by JohnLA on January 31, 2012, at 17:00:40
In reply to Re: NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by Hugh on January 31, 2012, at 13:00:57
> Dr. David Feifel at UCSD Medical Center is using ketamine NOW to treat depression. A single IV infusion of ketamine alleviates depression for about a week. At UCSD, they're giving multiple infusions of ketamine over several weeks, hoping that this will have long-lasting benefits.
>
> A video (and a transcript) of Dr. Feifel discussing the use of ketamine for depression is at this site:
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/736133thanks for posting this hugh.
i might call this doc up and see if i can get in. i'm also going to call ucla and see if they have something going.
again, appreciate you posting this info for us southern californians.
john
Posted by Raisinb on January 31, 2012, at 17:01:58
In reply to NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by mogger on January 30, 2012, at 21:36:37
I have read this in several places and I really wish I could try it. Maybe someday it will be widely available.
Posted by mogger on January 31, 2012, at 17:08:08
In reply to Re: NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by Raisinb on January 31, 2012, at 17:01:58
Fantastic post thanks Hugh. Keeping my fingers crossed we can get this in our hands/veins soon.
Posted by JohnLA on January 31, 2012, at 17:08:46
In reply to Re: NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression » JohnLA, posted by mogger on January 30, 2012, at 22:03:01
> My man John! I have been wondering how you are doing! Are you happy with your new psychiatrist? Have you heard of the drug riluzole being used for depression? I had a a very positive experience with it and thought i might mention it to you to perhaps discuss with your psychiatrist. It is mentioned in an article along with ketamine that is why i am mentioning it. It takes a while to start working (9 weeks for full effect for me) but it was worth the wait. I hope you are doing better john,
>
> Josephjoseph! hey buddy. hope you are doing ok or even better.
thanks for continuing to check on me. i really appreciate that.
something has been going on the past 4 to 5 weeks. nothing related to meds. i am having 'windows' of complete lack of depression. i'm truly hoping this is a sign that maybe my depressive episode is coming to an end. still, there are very dark moments. argh!
hey, i think i might call down at ucsd about the ketamine. i will also call my 'friends' at ucla. (i'm a gold card member there! ;)) curious to see if they are getting on the ketamine train.
the new pdoc is a very good guy. we tried nuvigal and then abilify. i ditched both. will see him tomorrow and ask him about the drug you mentioned.
i'll keep you in the loop about all of the above.
thanks again joseph.
john
Posted by JohnLA on January 31, 2012, at 17:39:24
In reply to Re: NPR excerpt/article on Ketamine for depression, posted by JohnLA on January 31, 2012, at 17:08:46
joseph and all-
just callled my friends (ha!) at ucla psych and they are doing ketamine already. unfortunately not in a study that would be free to the participant.
the doc who does it is dr. espinoza. he is the doc who gave me my ect's. real good guy. (save for shocking me.)
the lady i spoke with though told me that it's 'about' $1,000 per treatment. i just left doctor espinoza a voicemail. when i hear back from him i'll let you guys know the details.
john
Posted by mogger on January 31, 2012, at 21:09:13
In reply to ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by JohnLA on January 31, 2012, at 17:39:24
Holy cow that is expensive! So glad that you are having periods free of depression. That is marvelous news to hear. I hope it keeps up for you. Thanks for keeping us updated John,
Joseph
Posted by Hugh on January 31, 2012, at 22:11:02
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by mogger on January 31, 2012, at 21:09:13
This morning NPR aired the second part of their story about ketamine. They interviewed a guy who got ketamine at the NIH. (I don't know how many treatments.) That was over a year ago. Since then he's sustained his gains by taking riluzole. The segment also discusses scopolamine. A woman who put on a scopolamine patch to prevent seasickness was surprised when her depression lifted. They're using IV scopolamine to treat depression at UCSD Medical Center, though UCSD isn't mentioned in the NPR segment. To listen, go to
Posted by mogger on January 31, 2012, at 22:39:56
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by Hugh on January 31, 2012, at 22:11:02
Thanks Hugh for this. Dr. Chris Pittenger did a study on Riluzole and N-Acetyl Cysteine as novel approaches for OCD and depression. Here are a couple of links to his studies.
http://www.ocfoundation.org/glutamate.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18698875
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 1, 2012, at 12:09:14
In reply to ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by JohnLA on January 31, 2012, at 17:39:24
>the lady i spoke with though told me that it's 'about' $1,000 per treatment. i just left doctor espinoza a voicemail. when i hear back from him i'll let you guys know the details.
Someone is making a lot of money. Ketamine (Ketalar, Pfizer) only costs about £6 for a 200mg vial. I appreciate that medical supervision will be needed, but I can't imagine that at the doses used much medical intervention will be necessary.
Posted by poser938 on February 3, 2012, at 8:46:15
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 1, 2012, at 12:09:14
why not just take a higher than normal dose of the DXM in cough syrup?
is there really that big of a difference between DXM and ketamine?
Posted by SLS on February 3, 2012, at 13:49:19
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by poser938 on February 3, 2012, at 8:46:15
> why not just take a higher than normal dose of the DXM in cough syrup?
>
> is there really that big of a difference between DXM and ketamine?It is hard to know exactly what it is about ketamine that is important in the treatment of depression. Is NMDA antagonism sufficient? What about memantine? Dextromethorphan may not produce an increase in mTOR and BDNF as does ketamine. I can't find anything that says that it does.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on February 8, 2012, at 16:03:22
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by poser938 on February 3, 2012, at 8:46:15
Huge difference between DXM and ketamine. Just because they're both nmda antagonists doesn't mean they are similar compounds.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on February 8, 2012, at 16:04:35
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by SLS on February 3, 2012, at 13:49:19
Trust me it works.
Eric
Posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:07:01
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage » SLS, posted by phidippus on February 8, 2012, at 16:04:35
how long did it last eric? and cost?
thanks.
john
Posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:08:18
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage » SLS, posted by phidippus on February 8, 2012, at 16:04:35
how long did it last eric? and cost?
thanks.
john
Posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:11:33
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:08:18
also found this;
http://painsandiego.com/2012/01/24/depression-ptsd-ketamine-rapid-treatment/
i heard back from ucla. justa voicemail, but i think i will give this doc a call as well.
Posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:13:50
In reply to Re: ucla = $1000 per ketamine dosage, posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:07:01
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/eletters/67/8/793
Posted by mogger on February 11, 2012, at 21:30:35
In reply to opinions on this?, posted by JohnLA on February 11, 2012, at 21:13:50
Very interesting indeed! My new pdoc was not excited about the article and mentioned that magic mushrooms have also been proven to help depression in what I thought might be a slightly sarcastic tone. I am hopeful about it if it can be administered safely.
Posted by Hugh on February 12, 2012, at 11:36:58
In reply to Re: opinions on this?, posted by mogger on February 11, 2012, at 21:30:35
This slideshow has some interesting information on NMDA antagonists for pain relief. Skip to page 30 and it discusses how ketamine and magnesium work synergistically. So maybe even lower doses of ketamine would be effective if combined with daily usage of magnesium. The kind of magnesium discussed in the slideshow is IV infusion, but there' a new form of magnesium called magnesium l-threonate that, taken orally, can get more magnesium across the blood-brain barrier than an IV infusion of magnesium.
Here's the slideshow about ketamine and magnesium:
http://www.ndana.org/pdf/NMDAReceptorAntagonistslecture.pdf
Here's some info on magnesium l-threonate:
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 13:18:20
In reply to Re: opinions on this?, posted by Hugh on February 12, 2012, at 11:36:58
Thank you for this.
I don't think it is yet established how ketamine works to relieve depression. There must be something going on other than non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonism. Why wouldn't memantine work?
- Scott
> This slideshow has some interesting information on NMDA antagonists for pain relief. Skip to page 30 and it discusses how ketamine and magnesium work synergistically. So maybe even lower doses of ketamine would be effective if combined with daily usage of magnesium. The kind of magnesium discussed in the slideshow is IV infusion, but there' a new form of magnesium called magnesium l-threonate that, taken orally, can get more magnesium across the blood-brain barrier than an IV infusion of magnesium.
>
> Here's the slideshow about ketamine and magnesium:
>
> http://www.ndana.org/pdf/NMDAReceptorAntagonistslecture.pdf
>
> Here's some info on magnesium l-threonate:
>
> http://www.mit.edu/press/2010/magnesium-supplement.html
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.