Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 14:18:50
Greetings:
Severe treatment-refractory depression and severe ADHD both plague me... My doctor prescribes me relatively high doses of either Dexedrine
or Adderall. My cognitive limits are sort of set in stone. Without the psychostimulants, I daydream all day, do no productive work, and generally
act like a zombie. Thus, the stimulant pharmacotherapy is absolutely vital to my existence.
My question is: If a person should, or chooses, to be on *LONG-TERM* amphetamine-type stimulant therapy for affective disorder(s), how
should the cardiovascular system be simultaneously protected and the body "buffered" against the potential cardio-toxicity of the primary
stimulant therapy?
OTC supplements and herbals are okay, but not what I have in mind, really. I am already taking Vitamin Q10 and levocarnitine prophylactically.
I am interested in angioprotective/cardioprotectant psychopharmaceuticals that can be safely co-administered with Adderall/Dexedrine *in the
long-term* for intelligent preventative elimination of cardiovascular issues... It seems like the only wise course of action to me! Amphetamine
can wear down and screw up the cardiovasculature, so ADHD-sufferers and non-typical major depressive disorder sufferers who utilize
amphetamine-type stimulants for more than a few months should at least speculatively try to figure out how to protect their own circulatory and
cardiological systems from the "down side" of stimulant pharmacotherapy....
Any sapiential members with sapiential suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Posted by godess on January 6, 2012, at 14:58:53
In reply to PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 14:18:50
What you are actually saying is you feel like the walking dead, an want to use a amphet to feel alive again. Technicaly i dont have a clue, but i would sure if it ment some sort of releaf from what you feel now. But thats just me, im not saying its right or saying you should.
Posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 16:25:41
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by godess on January 6, 2012, at 14:58:53
> What you are actually saying is you feel like the walking dead, an want to use a amphet to feel alive again. Technicaly i dont have a clue, but i would sure if it ment some sort of releaf from what you feel now. But thats just me, im not saying its right or saying you should.
I have been diagnosed with adult ADHD and treatment-resistant major depressive disorder by several legitimate psychiatrists. "Feeling like zombie" is indeed part of the brutal depressive experience. I don't use medically-prescribed drugs to "feel alive again" in the morally tainted way most people would understand that, but I do choose psychotropics over electro-convulsive therapy and suicide. Can you fault me? Not many have been through the crap I've been through... I'm only asking the intelligent around here if they are aware of a good cardio-tonic to add to the stimulant regimen to prophylactically negate all cardio-toxicity.
Posted by torrid2 on January 6, 2012, at 16:36:48
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 16:25:41
I have ADHD too, for me I'm not a zombie but I feel lost and confused without concerta. In my own kichen I don't seem to be able to figure out where to put the dishes away. "What was I doing" is a question I constantly ask.
I try not to worry about the heart damage and just live a healthy life of eating and sleeping well.
Posted by sigismund on January 6, 2012, at 16:47:22
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by torrid2 on January 6, 2012, at 16:36:48
> In my own kichen I don't seem to be able to figure out where to put the dishes away.
There is 'remembering the place', 'finding the place' and 'making the decision about the place'.
This may be of interest.
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01500/PQQ-Caps-with-BioPQQ.html?source=search&key=pqq
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2012, at 19:06:29
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by sigismund on January 6, 2012, at 16:47:22
I'm not aware of any prescribed meds to protect the cardiovasular system. Meds to treat symptoms or damage done? Good healthy life style to me would help the most. Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on January 6, 2012, at 19:12:52
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2012, at 19:06:29
PQQ looks interesting. It's best taken with CoQ10 then?
Here's wiki on PQQ
Posted by godess on January 7, 2012, at 4:30:37
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 16:25:41
Thank you for calling me unitelligent , very cival of you. You asked for answer,s on how to protect your heart while on amfetimin no matter how you want to word it. I told you what i would do , i think you were asking poster,s that question.i wasnt telling you what to do , far from it im not that intelligent.But if you have been through what you post an amfetimin is bringing you back to life, worry about your heart at a later period, supplements are just that, not meds which you refuse to take.If me an i was getting releaf after a very long time i would worry about nothing else. But then again im thick as 2 plank,s
Posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 13:40:12
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by godess on January 7, 2012, at 4:30:37
I didn't denigrate you as unintelligent. That is not a corollary of my sentence, logically.
You are seemingly projecting an inferiority complex or low self-esteem issues here?
I was only reiterating the purpose of my message--I simply am not interested in having a deep metaphysical exchange about the ethical-moral basis of pharmacotherapy. For me, it's pharmacotherapy, psycho-surgery, or self-immolation. I am that disorganized, disheveled and dislocated mentally inside.
I well know any mere chemical equals not the Holy Grail. But if there is a biological connection beyond the power of our free will's commanding to psychiatric dysfunctions, I don't believe utilizing medicinal substances is a moral black hole. One simply has to be wise.
I know for a fact I have more horrific psychological problems than you, and did not mean to speak condescendingly. I speak unconsciously very brusquely, "arctically" and insensitively sometimes, and I apologize. I wish you the best. I am the opposite of black-hearted.
Posted by Beckett on January 7, 2012, at 13:55:41
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 13:40:12
>>I know for a fact I have more horrific psychological problems than you, and did not mean to speak condescendingly. I speak unconsciously very brusquely, "arctically" and insensitively sometimes, and I apologize. I wish you the best. I am the opposite of black-hearted.
I don't think there are any facts know about the human heart. Idk. So few?
Did you find the PQQ posts helpful at all? I did. I had done stimulant therapy for a few years. I still wonder at the toll exacted. PQQ is now on my shopping list.
Posted by Beckett on January 7, 2012, at 13:58:03
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use » theomastix, posted by Beckett on January 7, 2012, at 13:55:41
Oh dear. Metaphorically speaking that is....
Posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 13:58:30
In reply to PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 14:18:50
I think I possibly didn't phrase my initial post clearly.
The issue I am contemplating here is, PROPHYLAXIS or *preventative* treatment.
Of course living healthy is primary. That's a given.
Yet, another given relevant here is that amphetamine, taken on a long-term basis due to the patient truly needing it to function approximately "normally" (as I do), carries the risk of generating cardiovascular degenerative processes.
I always think ahead, plan ahead. Maybe part of "hypervigilance", who knows?
Here is a comparison: Levodopa helps treat Parkinson's disease; but Levodopa can also cause serious adverse side effects, e.g., nausea, vomiting, dyskinesias, etc. Therefore, doctors commonly co-administer Carbidopa to obtain the benefits of Levodopa without the negative side effects.
Does that illustration help in understanding my question? I am looking for a clever drug combination analogously. I am looking for the "Carbidopa" of Adderall or Dexedrine, to preemptively eliminate toxic potentialities before they have the chance to manifest. The goal being to reap the benefits of medicinal amphetamine without the potentially dangerous side effects.
Posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 14:07:31
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use » theomastix, posted by Beckett on January 7, 2012, at 13:55:41
> >>I know for a fact I have more horrific psychological problems than you, and did not mean to speak condescendingly. I speak unconsciously very brusquely, "arctically" and insensitively sometimes, and I apologize. I wish you the best. I am the opposite of black-hearted.
>
> I don't think there are any facts know about the human heart. Idk. So few?
>
> Did you find the PQQ posts helpful at all? I did. I had done stimulant therapy for a few years. I still wonder at the toll exacted. PQQ is now on my shopping list.Delusional egomania or narcissistic mania, fortunately, is not part of my problems. Perhaps I spoke indelicately, but maybe I should re-phrase my point this way: Have any of you seen both of your parents murdered in cold blood before your eyes in your childhood? I don't mean to come off as arrogant, only realistic. I was trying actually to indirectly soothe the hurt feelings of the other poster by basically saying, "I'm more screwed-up and messed-up than you."
I am delightedly reading the PQQ link and information as I type this... Thanks. The subject looks very promising...
Posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 14:09:06
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by sigismund on January 6, 2012, at 16:47:22
> > In my own kichen I don't seem to be able to figure out where to put the dishes away.
>
> There is 'remembering the place', 'finding the place' and 'making the decision about the place'.
>
> This may be of interest.
>
> http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01500/PQQ-Caps-with-BioPQQ.html?source=search&key=pqqThanks. :) Great suggestion and topic of research...
Posted by sigismund on January 7, 2012, at 16:26:33
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 14:07:31
There are lots of mitochondria in the heart, or so I read.
Posted by godess on January 8, 2012, at 3:08:41
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use » theomastix, posted by sigismund on January 7, 2012, at 16:26:33
With your parents ocourse i see your pain, an you will never get over it.I aplaud you on being functionable, to be honest i would have died years ago through drink an drugs in a case like that. That,s what i was trying to say, if amfet helps, i would not give a flying fig about my heart , i would get relief any way i could , i dont think any health shop online heart supplement would help in the slightest
Posted by West on January 9, 2012, at 15:33:24
In reply to PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by theomastix on January 6, 2012, at 14:18:50
I'm surprised no-one has brought up the obvious - beta blockers/clonidine/guanfacine.
In the past 0.25 mcg clonidine has helped to lower cardiac problems on stims. With dexedrine/vyvanse, it also helped mitigate the sense of dread which hung over me during the evening hours.
Posted by SLS on January 16, 2012, at 10:06:19
In reply to Re: PreventiveCardioprotection in Longterm Stim. Use, posted by West on January 9, 2012, at 15:33:24
> I'm surprised no-one has brought up the obvious
That's why we need people like you here!
Thanks.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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