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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 8:00:51
Does anyone know what effects venlafaxine has on opioid receptors? Does desvenlafaxine possess these same properties?
Sorry... too lazy (depressed) to research this stuff.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2011, at 10:14:04
In reply to Venlafaxine and opioid receptors?, posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 8:00:51
Scott I wish Link would chime in as he does a lot of research. Assuming the effexor isn't working great. Lar doesn't seem to care for opiods I do remember if writing it once. Maybe he would know? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 12:02:35
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2011, at 10:14:04
There might not be any interaction between venlafaxine and opioid receptors according to some of the material I found while searching Google.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on December 1, 2011, at 14:05:43
In reply to Venlafaxine and opioid receptors?, posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 8:00:51
I think there is some sort of intertwined indirect opioid action and it is my theory that is why the withdrawals are challenging. Since the opioid system itself is so complicated and linked to so many other systems in the body I don't know how we could ever pinpoint exactly what it's doing though.
Just speculating, but maybe consider adding Rhodiola Rosea to your meds. It's a rare gem for people like us at pbabble. You are feeling bad and need something that has the potential to do something rather fast and works in tough cases, and this plant does that. It must have been maybe 20 years ago I added it to prozac and was astounded how much better I felt. Prozac later pooped and rhodiola by itself monotherapy wasn't quite enough. Nowadays it is my primary med/herb for both depression and lyme and nothing I've tried in the last 5 years has done better.
Clinical studies have a lot of info on rhodiola but depression-specific studies are few. Anecdotal evidence is huge. Probably the best single source of info is the book Rhodiola Revolution, much of it can be found my just google searching excerpts. Basically, a psychiatrist's wife was finally cured of depression and lyme with rhodiola, and now the psychiatrist uses it in his practice combined with psych meds. For the unique subset of patients like us it is my opinion rhodiola is an excellent addition to any treatment program.
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2011, at 16:29:09
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors?, posted by bleauberry on December 1, 2011, at 14:05:43
There is an interaction between the noradrenergic system and the opioid system. NRI's apparently have some analgesic effects (enhancement of endorphin activity?). Anyhow, I don't think that venlafaxine direclty interacts with opioid receptors, but some of the antidepresant effect is dependant on the delta opioid system apparently.
Linkadge
Posted by europerep on December 1, 2011, at 18:11:22
In reply to Venlafaxine and opioid receptors?, posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 8:00:51
This may be of interest:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11931344
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2011, at 23:07:17
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » SLS, posted by europerep on December 1, 2011, at 18:11:22
Not really off topic just another view and many studies from this as did find one that lead to treatment resistant depression. All from this access. Phillipa
Posted by Phidippus on December 4, 2011, at 21:07:00
In reply to Venlafaxine and opioid receptors?, posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 8:00:51
Has it ever occured to you that ADs might be making you depressed?
Eric
Posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2011, at 22:55:35
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » SLS, posted by Phidippus on December 4, 2011, at 21:07:00
Eric how would that happen? Paradoxical reaction to AD's? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 5, 2011, at 7:42:28
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » SLS, posted by Phidippus on December 4, 2011, at 21:07:00
> Has it ever occured to you that ADs might be making you depressed?
Absolutely. Some do. Others make me feel euthymic, but only for a few days.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2011, at 9:27:26
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » Phidippus, posted by SLS on December 5, 2011, at 7:42:28
I don't get it then? Why? I understand them not working but to do the opposite? Phillipa
Posted by Phidippus on December 5, 2011, at 17:04:35
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » Phidippus, posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2011, at 22:55:35
Not paradoxical. Too much ADs can produce oversaturation at the synaptic clefts. Then the neurotransmitters go nowhere.
Eric
Posted by Phidippus on December 5, 2011, at 17:11:58
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » Phidippus, posted by SLS on December 5, 2011, at 7:42:28
I honestly think your overmedicated. Nortryptaline and Effexor are both SNRIs, which seems redundant. Abilify is a messy drug and can sometimes cause depression. You're on two mood stabilizers, which act as CNS depressants and might be making you feel blah. Have you ever tried Clomipramine?
Eric
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2011, at 21:13:25
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » Phillipa, posted by Phidippus on December 5, 2011, at 17:04:35
Seriously where do they go? Disappear? Or elsewhere in the body? Phillipa
Posted by Brainbeard on December 6, 2011, at 7:58:47
In reply to Venlafaxine and opioid receptors?, posted by SLS on December 1, 2011, at 8:00:51
Posted by Uncouth on December 7, 2011, at 8:44:27
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » Phidippus, posted by SLS on December 5, 2011, at 7:42:28
Scott have you ever thought about low dose naltrexone? If your looking at opioid system it would absolutely be worth a trial, I felt immediate and distinct results different than other antidepressant responses....and it definitely helped me to get I to a intense daily exercise regime.
Honestly I agree I think it's time to make some bigger changes if your still ill. I am also bipolar 2, and as my posts on this board over past few years show, been at times severely suicidally chronically depressed. But over the last six months I ha slowly started to come out of it. I am on the following very nontraditional meds and doses which have been effective where other meds were not:
Bupropion 600mg
Pramipexole 1mg
Naltrexone 3mg at night
Vyvanse 60mg
Acamprosate 2000mg (for OCD- ish symptoms but also for depression and stability I think....fairly low risk and helps glutamate over excitability)
Saphris 10mg
Cerefolin nac
TestosteroneAnd making it even more nonstandard with trying to switch fro. Saphris to trimipramine because of sleep issues. Saphris was far more effective than ability ever was, fwiw.
Importantly, I think that the addition of dhea 3 months ago was the kicker that got things started moving and also improved my exercise endurance and motivation. Other supps which I think are very important and I believe are impactful are rhodiola (definitely), omega3, lithium orotate (and I think orotic acid is important as a source of uridine itself which may be v important for bipolar), coq10, ALA, tryptophan and dl-phenylalanine. I am on a lot of stuff but believe it or not it is a significant reduction from 6 mos ago and I am closer to remission than I have been in ages cross fingers.
If I had to make some recommendations I would say to try 50mg DHEA bid for 6 weeks, consider LDN if you believe opioids are an issue, and see if both of those improve exercise motivation and endurance, your goal should be no less than 45 minutes of intense cardio 6 days a week, eventually.
If your serious, get serious and dump sh*t that's not obviously getting you to remission, I would say don't be afraid of dumping something because you feel you are getting partial benefits....it's clear your not anywhere near remission and that should be primary goal.
Have you looked into low dose buprenorphine or getting into a ketamine trial? Also look into tDCS, I have done it in the past with my CESta device and now do it a few days a month though I'm not sure it helps. Also have been doing neurofeedback for the past year and it's nice to have someone look at your EEG and actually say yeah something is wrong here that we can target,
Anyway let me know if you have any questions.
What about very high dose lamotrigine or rilutek? Clozapine? Oleptro? Remeron? Weight should be less important than remission at this point. Have you tried symbyax? Lots of things to try so dont waste time.
Posted by Phidippus on December 7, 2011, at 15:00:06
In reply to Re: Venlafaxine and opioid receptors? » Phidippus, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2011, at 21:13:25
They literally disappear.
Eric
This is the end of the thread.
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