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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mogger on November 15, 2011, at 21:44:31
Hi there,
I am coming down slowly on my zoloft but can't go any lower as some depression is coming back which is disappointing as the sexual dysfunction is getting better and sweating is abating. I went from 200mg and am now at 125mg. I am also on remeron, buspar and lamictal. Anyways I tried taking Deplin (7.5mg) and have now been on it for 4 days and I must say my anxiety has got way worse and it seems to have aggravated my depression. It is also causing insomnia which I have never had in my life. Has anyone had this same experience and should I keep taking it to hope it abates or should I stop it which I feel like I should as this feels awful? Many thanks for your experiences and thoughts,
mogger
Posted by SLS on November 16, 2011, at 6:27:18
In reply to Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by mogger on November 15, 2011, at 21:44:31
> Hi there,
>
> I am coming down slowly on my zoloft but can't go any lower as some depression is coming back which is disappointing as the sexual dysfunction is getting better and sweating is abating. I went from 200mg and am now at 125mg. I am also on remeron, buspar and lamictal. Anyways I tried taking Deplin (7.5mg) and have now been on it for 4 days and I must say my anxiety has got way worse and it seems to have aggravated my depression. It is also causing insomnia which I have never had in my life. Has anyone had this same experience and should I keep taking it to hope it abates or should I stop it which I feel like I should as this feels awful? Many thanks for your experiences and thoughts,
>
> mogger
I experienced a moderate worsening of depression while taking Deplin. I stayed on it for several months, but I never felt any better. I haven't seen anyone remain on Deplin for any length of time. I doubt that it is particularly effective at producing a stable long-term improvement.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2011, at 9:48:32
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » mogger, posted by SLS on November 16, 2011, at 6:27:18
I took 7.5mg of Deplin but noticed nothing expensive so went off it. Why take an expensive supplement and feel nothing good or bad? Phillipa
Posted by Davidr11 on November 16, 2011, at 20:36:45
In reply to Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by mogger on November 15, 2011, at 21:44:31
Im hoping to add some clarification with Deplin. I work with Deplin and have about four years experience with Psychiatrist and patients. Deplin usually contains a side effect profile similar to a vitamin, in fact, Deplin is just that, folic acid. The key difference is that folic acid has to go through a four stage process so that the brain can use the converted L-methylfolate. L-methylfolate is needed for creating more of the three essential neurotransmitters. By adding the Deplin, enhancing SNRIs and SSRIs, a patient may feel better, faster. Hope this helps. Always feel free to visit to the Deplin website.
Posted by mogger on November 16, 2011, at 20:41:17
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » mogger, posted by SLS on November 16, 2011, at 6:27:18
Good to hear that it wasn't just me who had this reaction. I went off it today. Quite an experience. There is no question it does something but I suppose it just doesn't agree with me. I have seen some great reviews of it and I am sure for some it is awesome but definitely not for me.
Posted by davidR11 on November 18, 2011, at 1:23:55
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by mogger on November 16, 2011, at 20:41:17
A few questions. First, did the prescriber explain how long it would take Deplin to work as an augmentation agent? Second, did they also touch on the two available strengths (7.5, 15mg) and the significant differences? The Ginsberg study shows the remission rates as better by 60 days compared to standard monotherapy over two years. But like anything else with depression, it does take time. The Zajecka study shows a magnitude of effect in as little as 30 days using the 15mgs added to SNRIs and SSRIs. Depending on the levels of depression, specifically folate levels, it will take time. Hope this helps. I have attached the studies.
Ginsberg LD, Oubre A, Daoud Y. L-methylfolate Plus SSRI or SNRI from Treatment Initiation Compared to SSRI or SNRI Monotherapy in a Major Depressive Episode. Innov Clin Neurosci. 2011;8(1):19-28.
Papakostas G, Shelton R, Zajecka J, et al. L-methylfolate Augmentation of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) for SSRI-Resistant Major Depressive Disorder: Results of Two Randomized, Double-Blind Trials. (2011, March). Poster presented at the European Congress of Psychiatry EPA 2011. Vienna, Austria. These data and conclusions should be considered preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal.
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2011, at 20:23:27
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by davidR11 on November 18, 2011, at 1:23:55
Study isn't completed yet? Not sure. Phillipa
Posted by mogger on November 18, 2011, at 20:33:57
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by davidR11 on November 18, 2011, at 1:23:55
David,
Yes thank you he did go over the dose difference and recommended the 15mg however to start off with the 7.5mg for a week and then move up. I have been taking a low dose of l-methylfolate 800mcg a day so I felt the increase almost immediately when I bumped it up to 7.5mg. I am actually doing ok at the moment but we thought it would make me feel even better. The side effects I felt were an intense anxiety and an onset of depression. I would stick with it if it would subside but my gut did not feel right at all about it. I have seen many posts that those who have this reaction (and there are quite a few which is to be expected as not everything works for everyone) usually can't tolerate it and have to stop. I know it is a marvelous medical food for some.
Posted by herpills on November 18, 2011, at 22:31:11
In reply to Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by mogger on November 15, 2011, at 21:44:31
When I started Deplin, I definitely felt a boost in energy accompanied by a little anxiety. This went away after a couple days. Deplin shouldn't make your depression worse. Are you planning on going up to 15mg? herpills
Posted by mogger on November 18, 2011, at 22:57:48
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » mogger, posted by herpills on November 18, 2011, at 22:31:11
no I am not. Perhaps I am on too much medication and the addition of the Deplin was too much. Good to hear that it has worked for you!
Posted by SLS on November 19, 2011, at 1:16:02
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » mogger, posted by herpills on November 18, 2011, at 22:31:11
> Deplin shouldn't make your depression worse.
Some people get depressed from eating bread.
It is not natural for humans to ingest large amounts of methylfolate. It doesn't occur in nature that way. While it might have a tonic effect for some, it can be physiologically offensive to others. It might depend on one's level of methylation. Perhaps there is someone on the Alternative board who can address this issue.
- Scott
Posted by herpills on November 19, 2011, at 18:00:58
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » herpills, posted by SLS on November 19, 2011, at 1:16:02
You're right, Deplin isn't necessarily benign. My pdoc had a patient who got hypomanic on it. herpills
Posted by DavidR11 on November 21, 2011, at 21:45:55
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by mogger on November 18, 2011, at 20:33:57
Im glad that you were exposed to Deplin. It does not cure everyone that tries it but there is usually little to no elevation of side effects when adding it to a current prescription regime. I do hope you are doing well. Best wishes.
Posted by DavidR11 on November 21, 2011, at 22:03:35
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » herpills, posted by SLS on November 19, 2011, at 1:16:02
Scott,
Good points. I work with Deplin and can tell you that after calling on Psychiatrist for over four years, i have heard every story about natural folate. Thanks for the added information.
Posted by DavidR11 on November 21, 2011, at 22:31:31
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety? » mogger, posted by SLS on November 16, 2011, at 6:27:18
Scott,
I am including two very key studies that demonstrate, compared to placebo, that not only was Deplin efficacious, but in as little as thirty days. Deplin may not work for everyone, as most anti-depressants do not, but Deplin is usually safe and if it can provide a patient any opportunity to get to remission, that is what is important. Thank you for providing your experience.1. Ginsberg LD, Oubre A, Daoud Y. L-methylfolate Plus SSRI or SNRI from Treatment Initiation Compared to SSRI or SNRI Monotherapy in a Major Depressive Episode. Innov Clin Neurosci. 2011;8(1):19-28.
2. Papakostas G, Shelton R, Zajecka J, et al. L-methylfolate Augmentation of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) for SSRI-Resistant Major Depressive Disorder: Results of Two Randomized, Double-Blind Trials. (2011, March). Poster presented at the European Congress of Psychiatry EPA 2011. Vienna, Austria. These data and conclusions should be considered preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal.
Posted by mogger on November 22, 2011, at 0:40:44
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by DavidR11 on November 21, 2011, at 22:03:35
David,
Thanks for the studies. Do you find that psychiatrists are not embracing deplin as you say you have heard every story from them regarding natural folate? What do you mean about hearing every story about natural folate? Thanks,
mogger
Posted by DavidR11 on November 22, 2011, at 20:33:44
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by mogger on November 22, 2011, at 0:40:44
Mogger,
A good number of Psychiatrist seem to hit the same concerns and barriers with explaining to them or the patients about folic acid. Some feel that folic acid should be enough or that they require even more evidence before trying Deplin. However, folic acid cannot cross the blood brain barrier, L-methylfolate does. My perspective, even though there is hard empirical evidence that clearly demonstrates true magnitude of effect, is that it requires a lot for Psychiatrist to try novel approaches.
Posted by Jenbr on December 7, 2011, at 11:38:40
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by DavidR11 on November 22, 2011, at 20:33:44
So, it's still possible for Deplin to take effect given that I have now been on it just shy of 2 days from 4 weeks? I was ready to give up, to be honest. I have not benefited at all so far. But it sounds like it can take effect in 4-6 weeks? Or is that just wishful thinking on my end?
-Jen
Posted by DavidR11 on December 11, 2011, at 23:19:09
In reply to Re: Deplin, Aggravate Depression + Anxiety?, posted by Jenbr on December 7, 2011, at 11:38:40
If you visit the Deplin website, it explains:
You may begin to notice a difference after taking Deplin® for 1 to 2 weeks, but the full effect may take 4 to 8 weeks.2,3 Some individuals have higher nutritional requirements for L-methylfolate to regulate the neurotransmitters that are associated with depression. Deplin®, in addition to your antidepressant, may result in improvement in one or more of the following:*Motivation
Initiative
Alertness
Concentration
Mood
Sociability
Hope this helps.
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