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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
Hey folks,
Ok in brief, I need to hack my sleep, my sleep cycle is all messed up, and I need to figure out how to advance or delay it (i'm not sure).
IN length:
Well i'm doing ok, up and down, but in general better than I was doing a few weeks ago. The Low Dose Naltrexone I actually think worked a bit. And the DHEA as well that i started. They both I believe gave me the push and motivation and REWARD to exercise, and the endurance to exercise for long periods of time DAILY. Which Is really what I think has been improving mood.Anyway problem is that i can't sleep past 3-4am. No matter if i go to sleep at 8pm or 11pm, I keep waking up at this time. At first i thought it was ther LDN since that can disturb sleep, but I tried skipping nightly doses and i'd still wake up. I was having sleep problems before ,but switched back to Saphris at night which got me sleeping again but only for a few weeks. Now I just cannot make it past 3-4am. Interestingly enough I usually wake up, although tired, feeling pretty good, like my mind is spinning. Not hypomanic, but lets just say I wake up, take my meds (including vyvanse), lay back in bed, and it's my favorite part of my day. I think its the endorphins from the LDN and maybe the feeling good after exercise the night before.
But i can't keep going on just 5-6 hours of sleep a night. I really do need my rest. Saphris is already at 10mg at night, and its a pretty good sleeper. Seroquel etc. knocks me out too much during the day. We tried a bunch of other stuff a few months ago for sleep, and saphris was the only thing that at the time kept me asleep.
So what else can I try? By 7-8pm i am so tired that i can't stay up later than that and it really effects sleep. But when i go to sleep earlier at least i get a little more sleep. The problem is that i'm becoming incoherent during the day, i just flubbed majorly a job interview yesterday, wasn't talking intellgently at all, couldn't speak right, and you can probably tell this message is poorly written. Just out of it. Only good thing is that the exercise daily is keeping energy levels relatively ok and mood too.
SO ANY strategies, any hacks? I simply can't stay asleep past 3:30am - 4:00am, even if i take anothert dose of saphris when i wake up. Is there something I can do to hack my sleep, like, what is wrong with my phase. Is it advanced or delayed? If I kept on going to sleep earlier and earlier every night could I eventually reset it? Or maybe just try to stay up the whole night and the whole next day? What should I do what should I do!?
thanks
uncouth
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2011, at 23:30:46
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
Was going to suggest another dose of med when wake as I always wake after four hours and take a piece of valium and sleep again. I don't know? Phillipa
Posted by Raisinb on November 12, 2011, at 10:02:39
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
With all the meds it could be anything and I don't know much about those meds, but my gut reaction is its the exercise, when I used to run all the time, several miles a day, I had the exact same sleep problems. On the days of long runs I could barely sleep at all, and I always ran in the mornings to try not to impact sleep. But I guess the physiological arousal was just too much.
Alternatively, that sleep pattern is a common symptom of depression, if that is a possibility.
Posted by Duncan on November 12, 2011, at 10:31:34
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
If this problem began after you started exercising, maybe you're exercising too close to bedtime. If it's not exercise related, it could be improved by exposing yourself to light at certain times during the day. You can take the circadian rhythm test at this site:
Posted by bleauberry on November 13, 2011, at 4:45:37
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
I would think maybe about working in one of the adaptogens....Rhodiola Rosea, Ashwaganda, Siberian Ginseng....I think in your case ashwaganda would be the best start. Now these aren't going to directly put you to sleep, but over weeks and months they help the body adjust to adverse conditons and rebalance things that are out of balance, such as in the adrenal axis where maybe you are getting a shot of too much at 3am.
Until then, just take a slightly different sleep schedule and go with it. 8pm to 3am, there's nothing wrong with that. I have an early morning waking thing too, usually by 4pm, and it bothers me a little because I used to sleep later. Overall I'm feeling better and to me it is an acceptable deal.
Posted by SLS on November 13, 2011, at 8:05:54
In reply to Re: Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by bleauberry on November 13, 2011, at 4:45:37
> Until then, just take a slightly different sleep schedule and go with it. 8pm to 3am, there's nothing wrong with that. I have an early morning waking thing too, usually by 4pm, and it bothers me a little because I used to sleep later. Overall I'm feeling better and to me it is an acceptable deal.
I think Ben Franklin had it right.
- Scott
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 14, 2011, at 17:00:38
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
Try taking 3mg of melatonin (easily avaliable off of the net) and a sleeping pill (eg Temazepam 30mg) an hour before a reasonable bedtime ( say 10pm) for 3 nights, to help reset your sleep clock.
Posted by Duncan on November 15, 2011, at 11:12:48
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
The University of Utah has been conducting studies of uridine for bipolar disorder. They've been using relatively low doses, and have been getting promising results. Taking fish oil with uridine boosts its effectiveness. This study found that uridine can help with sleep, at least in mice:
Posted by uncouth on November 15, 2011, at 12:04:14
In reply to Re: Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by Duncan on November 15, 2011, at 11:12:48
Thanks! I have some DNA-RNA capsules i've been meaning to try becuase i already take high dose fish oil. I also take lithium and magnesium orotate, and orotic acid breaks down into uridine supposedly, so i may be getting some there too.
Sleep has still been horrible, got only 4 hours of sleep last two nights, dont understand whats doing this as i've stopped taking low dose naltrexone at night. The 10mg Saphris is barely doing anything anymore.
Posted by Duncan on November 15, 2011, at 14:37:42
In reply to Re: Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 15, 2011, at 12:04:14
I took RNA/DNA a while back. It didn't do anything for me, but I'm unipolar, not bipolar. I took uridine more recently. I found it stimulating at higher doses, and somewhat sedating at a lower dose. Ecological Formulas recently introduced 300 mg capsules of uridine.
Posted by uncouth on November 15, 2011, at 15:08:50
In reply to Re: Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by Duncan on November 15, 2011, at 14:37:42
Oh cool, 300mg is way more than what was offered before! I think i'll try some...
Posted by Phidippus on November 15, 2011, at 20:08:13
In reply to Re: Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 15, 2011, at 15:08:50
Here's a list of medications that might help.
Gabitril - is shown to improve sleep. Of all the medications I've tried for sleep, Gabitril effectively kept me asleep.
Cyproheptadine
Clonidine
Trazadone
Seroquel
Lyrica
Oxazepam - Also helps you stay asleep.
Rozerem - Subjective reported sleep time was greater in Ramelteon treated persons, according to studies.
DoxepinIt is difficult to find medications that help you stay asleep-most meds for sleep seem geared toward helping you fall asleep but don't address the issue of staying asleep. Gabitril, Oxazepam and Rozerem are the only drugs I know of that really promote sleep.
If this has been a chronic issue for you, you may have a sleep disorder and it may benefit you to visit a sleep specialist. One method of therapy they might administer is light therapy. Light therapy is often used in the treatment of delayed sleep phase syndrome, a sleep disorder that causes delayed sleep.
Eric
Posted by Zyprexa on November 16, 2011, at 13:46:39
In reply to Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2011, at 19:57:08
Isn't vyvance a stimulant? If so maybe you should take it in the morning and safris at night.
Posted by uncouth on November 16, 2011, at 14:08:59
In reply to Re: Weird sleep cycle problem, please help!, posted by Zyprexa on November 16, 2011, at 13:46:39
Oh I do, that is definitely when I take it! Vyvanse morning Saphris night.
This is the end of the thread.
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