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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 10:56:24
I have been on klonopin for 3 yrs, .5mg per night.I have decided to restart zoloft, and no longer want to be on klonopin. I rarely had panic attacks, and have been diagnosed with gad and depression.I have tried to taper before, but I get vertigo, and it makes me crazy. I would like to know how long into the zoloft restart,I can start to taper klonopin? I have access to Remeron, could that help with dizziness?I will also try just taking a tiny piece off every 2 weeks.
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2011, at 11:03:09
In reply to I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 10:56:24
That old lady on benzos is me. 41 years. I continue to cut down. Not happy about it but if not for them in 20's would never have raised three children, had own business, and become an RN magna c*m Laude. And won many awards for academic excellence. And gone through divorce. So for me it was worth it. But I do know the essence of what you are saying don't want to be dependant on benzos. But for me have had a much harder time trying to get off luvox. Why who knows? Wishing you much luck. Phillipa
Posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 11:10:00
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2011, at 11:03:09
Thanks,Phillipa. You have been able to accomplish alot in your life! I have been told by so many people to get off the benzo now,it will just get harder and harder, the more time passes and the older you get.My mother in law loves zoloft for her menopausal symptoms, and Ive never tried it w/o a benzo. I want to see if I can do it.
Posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 11:18:14
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 11:10:00
I stopped the zoloft previously due to weight gain, but when I look back, I didnt gain that much, and some could be due to my age, 47,my mother gained weight same age. Zoloft helped me, and I didnt have much trouble tapering it.But I was always on the klonopin with the zoloft.So I really dont know what it will feel like w/o the benzo.I do many things to help me with my anxiety, such as massage,hiking,meditating.But the zoloft seemed to help with the mental aspect of worry.
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2011, at 19:38:27
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 11:18:14
Sounds like the menopausal age when my anxiety the worst. Yet I keep hearing time and again how good zoloft is for anxiety. Great to do this now. I keep cutting down on benzos. I bet you suceed. Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 20, 2011, at 19:47:07
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 11:18:14
I dont like being on benzos (or antidepressants) but if it wasnt for the deugs, I'd either have committed suicide by now, be in a mental institution, or at best would be a hermit with no job living in fear of the phone ringing or someone knocking on the door or the power bill comming
The drugs gave me my life back, just the same as insulin gives a diabetic his life back, and for me thatsa fair compromise.
Posted by Phidippus on October 20, 2011, at 21:12:58
In reply to I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 10:56:24
I would start to taper off the Klonopin about two weeks into restarting the Zoloft
Eric
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2011, at 21:16:03
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 20, 2011, at 19:47:07
Jono seriously at my age and been on low dose benzos 41 years and they no longer work, diabetes in family, hypothyroidism, and luvox 50mg with lexapro 2.5mg. Any suggestions for getting a life back at my age? Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 20, 2011, at 21:36:28
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2011, at 11:03:09
I think its a game of "pick your poison." Personally, I'd think about tapering the benzos to as-needed (PRN) use and avoiding the antidepressant. That's just me though.
Philipa--I'd personally say just go slow with a taper and try to introduce stuff--like high-dose niacinamide--that will help you out and maybe make the taper easier. I've heard that taking melatonin at night can help with the insomnia that comes from reducing benzos. Other supplements can help you get your brain back into shape. I'd personally consider lots of c, b-100 a couple times daily, green tea extract, and other such things to improve overall health and boost your antioxidant defense system.
If you need drugs, though, just try to keep the doses low and avoid sedating medications. Your doses seem pretty low, so if you *have* to keep taking them, I don't think its a huge deal. The downside to benzos is the cognitive impairment. My grandfather was on a benzos at pretty high doses ever since he had electroshock in the 70s (that treatment, obviously, doesn't do your cognitive skills any favors, either). At one point, his doctor thought he had Alzheimer's. Turns out his xanax dose was a) too high and b) as he got older, it was causing more pronounced cognitive problems (personally, I think the electroshock plus high dose antidepressants did more to hurt his brain that the benzos, but I'm not a doc, so whatever).
And to gachick...benzos aren't evil, and antidepressants aren't that great. Any psychiatric drug you take will work by altering normal brain function. They don't fix anything; the goal is to alter your brain chemistry in such a way that either you feel better or, in the case on institutionalized people, the people responsible for your care are pleased.
Good luck to both of you.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 20, 2011, at 22:23:42
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by Christ_empowered on October 20, 2011, at 21:36:28
Philipa
I'd give mirtazepine a try as an antidepressant/anti anxiety drug at a dose of say 30mg at bedtime. You can take this along with your SSRI
As for cutting down on your benzos, have a look at the Ashton protocol..... you transfer your self to Valium (a mild, long acting benzo) and slowly discontinue this by say 1mg per week so that there are no withdrawl symptoms - it might take 6 months, but so what, time is somthing we have plenty of.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2011, at 7:44:30
In reply to I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 10:56:24
I went down from 1 mg to .5 mg for months, if not years, then down to .25 mg for months, if not years, then started taking it every other night, then every few nights, then not at all.
That gradually I barely even noticed it, though I admittedly still don't avoid the early morning wakings as well as I did on Klonopin. I've just accepted that.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2011, at 7:51:42
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » jono_in_adelaide, posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2011, at 21:16:03
Therapy? And a willingness to tolerate the anxiety of doing the sort of homework that might require.
Behavioral interventions, even if not done by a strictly CBT therapist, have proven to be very helpful with anxiety.
Although something more than that might be helpful as well.
Posted by gadchik on October 21, 2011, at 9:04:14
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » gadchik, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2011, at 7:44:30
> I went down from 1 mg to .5 mg for months, if not years, then down to .25 mg for months, if not years, then started taking it every other night, then every few nights, then not at all.
>
> That gradually I barely even noticed it, though I admittedly still don't avoid the early morning wakings as well as I did on Klonopin. I've just accepted that.Thanks for your sharing your experience.Ive thought of getting down to .25mg,and staying there for a few months.My pdoc did suggest going every other day, then every few nights.I will also have to accept some change in sleep,perhaps.I think I may also eventually get to as needed.A quarter of a 15mg Remeron will get me to sleep even better than klonopin, however, it doesnt work if I use it often.May try melatonin too.The main issue I have w/tapering is the extreme dizziness,but will try going very slow.I wonder if dramamine might keep the dizziness at bay?
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2011, at 13:57:22
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » Dinah, posted by gadchik on October 21, 2011, at 9:04:14
I think tapering slowly should help that. Try .25 mg and see how that goes.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 23, 2011, at 18:18:22
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » gadchik, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2011, at 13:57:22
Its geenraly best to first change your benzo to diazepam (Valium) as this has an extremely long half life, so drops in doseage arnt such a shock to the body, then to gradualy reduce the doze of diazepam in very small amounts (say 1mg every 1-2 weeks).
If you were taking 15mg per day this would mean you'd taper down over 15 weeks - these small drops shouldnt be noticcable.
Posted by gadchik on October 24, 2011, at 8:52:08
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 23, 2011, at 18:18:22
So if im taking .5mg klonopin only 1x per day, would i try 5mg valium and .25mg klonopin,then get to only 5mg valium and then start to taper that?
Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 24, 2011, at 21:24:54
In reply to I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 20, 2011, at 10:56:24
> I have been on klonopin for 3 yrs, .5mg per night.I have decided to restart zoloft, and no longer want to be on klonopin. I rarely had panic attacks, and have been diagnosed with gad and depression.I have tried to taper before, but I get vertigo, and it makes me crazy.
Slow and steady wins the race. Virtually anyone can get off of a benzo if the taper is gradual enough. Ideally, you should be lowering your dose by no more than 0.125mg every 3-4 days.
If you are done with the taper and having post-acute withdrawal symptoms, you can try to find someone to administer a dose of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flumazenil
This is _NOT_ for use during your taper. Do _NOT_ use this drug if you are benzodiazepine dependent.
This has been ussed _after_ the taper [the theory goes] to reset the receptor complex to its drug-naive state.>I would like to know how long into the zoloft restart,I can start to taper klonopin? I have access to Remeron, could that help with dizziness?I will also try just taking a tiny piece off every 2 weeks.
You should not change anything with the clonazepam until you are on a stable dose of Zoloft.
There are liquid titration kits online for administering microdoses of clonazepam, but I'd ask your doctor/pharmacist for help first.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 29, 2011, at 6:02:11
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos » gadchik, posted by Chairman_MAO on October 24, 2011, at 21:24:54
Change from clonazepam to an equal dose of diazepam (Valium), and get that dispensed as the 2mg tablets.
Reduce the dose half a tablet (1mg) at a time - your body will never notice.
Google Ashton Protocol for detailed instructions etc.
I also agree with chairman, mess with only one drug at a time
Posted by gadchik on October 29, 2011, at 12:49:03
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 29, 2011, at 6:02:11
Sounds like good advice.I keep going back and forth on the decision to stop or not stop klonopin. do you know if pdocs in united states agree w/the ashton method? I have tried sev times to taper directly from klonopin,not for me! I told my pdoc that it felt too difficult,she never mentioned valium,just stated that I must still need it.
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2011, at 19:32:50
In reply to Re: I dont wanna be that old lady on benzos, posted by gadchik on October 29, 2011, at 12:49:03
I once asked my pdoc who is in 70's so been around husband was also a pdoc about the Ashton method and she had never heard of it. She also said the same thing to me. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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