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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 14:42:02
Hey guys,
Still looking for work - the offer I wanted was rescinded (literally) because of my awful credit. I don't know whether to file for bankruptcy or not, especially after Bush's changes to US bankruptcy law, but I should have known - I applied to work at a financial institution.
Before I digress, we're looking at a 50 pound weight gain since June, plus terrible food cravings.
This is what caused me to go off Nardil (and lose work, go on disability, etc) the last time, but I don't take this lightly. I realize subconsciously we humans want to be thin or muscular because of sex; and I don't really care about having sex right now. (I know that may sound crude, but that's the way I see it.)
Having said that there's something indisputably self-esteem boosting about having a body you're pleased with. Has anyone been able to keep this off by going to the gym, and gone from Nardil-induced FATNESS to having a decent figure again (men in particular)?
I'm thinking of opening a membership. Exercise these days (since adding testosterone) gives me a sense of clarity and happiness it wasn't capable of doing during depression. Walking isn't going to get these pounds off, though.
I am keeping a careful eye on Viibryd. I want no med changes until I'm firmly reintegrated into society, but if this medication continues to get good anecdotal reviews after being out 6mo to a year, and I am doing okay at work, I may consider a switch. I probably would take medical leave to do it; considering that I don't know how I'd respond to stopping Nardil.
-z
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2011, at 17:38:03
In reply to Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 14:42:02
Zonked so sorry about the job. I know how excited you were. You feel good enough I'd join a gym and build muscle maybe the added testosterone with even help with that? Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 9, 2011, at 18:32:23
In reply to Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 14:42:02
It seems that some doctors are willing to give MAOI's with a stimulant - could you ask your doctor about taking Nardil along with some phentermine to get the 50 pounds off?
Sorry about the job, it sucks, I know, been there.
Posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 19:23:37
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 9, 2011, at 18:32:23
> It seems that some doctors are willing to give MAOI's with a stimulant - could you ask your doctor about taking Nardil along with some phentermine to get the 50 pounds off?
>
> Sorry about the job, it sucks, I know, been there.I could get Dexedrine or Adderall without a problem, which would also treat my ADD. The problem I have with stimulants is that (at the same dose) they lose efficacy within 3 weeks, and if I take "holidays" on the weekends, I get cranky.
Maybe not this time though? If I begin work and my ADD is too much to handle, it's something I've considered. In the past when I was working, on Nardil (or whatever else I was taking) I asked for an Adderall XR prescription when I had a big project due which required my complete attention. There wasn't much of a taper because usually I asked for a week to two weeks worth. My new psychiatrist is such an expert psychopharmacogist that he's probably open to whatever I suggest as long as it makes sense "up there" and is safe. I do feel fortunate in this regard.
When I am feeling less lazy, I will look into this (anecdotal, I suppose) phenomenon I see described all the time on another forum: Memantine to block against stimulant tolerance. That would be awesome if that worked.
Appreciate the helpful suggestion and the condolence - I am still looking for work. I got far enough as a hire with more money than I've ever made; if it had only been at a company that wasn't a financial institution. I keep plugging away...
Two people have told me that, by law, federal government jobs in the US must give priority to disabled applicants to meet quotas. I'll be verifying this with the California dept of rehab on Monday. I owe them a visit anyway; my primary counselor has been out sick.
If true, US government jobs don't pay quite as much as private industry but the benefits are unbelievable - as my best friend told me on Saturday, "at 83 I'll be operating on myself while the IRS people I work with every day will be coasting into the sunset on their pensions and getting free facelifts."
(An exaggeration, but not much of one!)
Cheers,
-z
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2011, at 21:40:24
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem » jono_in_adelaide, posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 19:23:37
It's very true. Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 9, 2011, at 22:26:15
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem » jono_in_adelaide, posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 19:23:37
Might be worth trying a stimulant to get the 50lb off - I lose 45 pounds using Duromine (Australian brand of phentermine sr) earlier this year. I did it over 3 months...... I'd take the Duromine for 4 weeks, then have a week off, then take it for 4 weeks etc.
This wouldnt solve your problem long term, but it would atleast get you back to a reasonable weight, which you might be able to maintain through strict diet or excersise...... or, you could take phenermine 2 weeks per month to stop weight gain?
Have you considered trying Parnate as a substitute for Nardil - this doesnt cause weight gain (although it isnt as good for anxiety as Nardil is)
BTW, what did you decide about sleeping pills?
Posted by pedr on October 9, 2011, at 22:50:57
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 9, 2011, at 22:26:15
Hi,
The only things for me that reduced the weight I gained on Nardil were:
- abilify. As low as 1mg / day.
- reducing dose down to 60mg and lower.
- experiencing hunger and tolerating it!BTW Jono, as I understand it, Parnate does induce weight gain in many who take it - just not as reliably or spectacularly as Nardil.
Cheers
Pedr
Posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 23:04:44
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 9, 2011, at 22:26:15
> Might be worth trying a stimulant to get the 50lb off - I lose 45 pounds using Duromine (Australian brand of phentermine sr) earlier this year. I did it over 3 months...... I'd take the Duromine for 4 weeks, then have a week off, then take it for 4 weeks etc.
>
> This wouldnt solve your problem long term, but it would atleast get you back to a reasonable weight, which you might be able to maintain through strict diet or excersise...... or, you could take phenermine 2 weeks per month to stop weight gain?Phentermine is highly frowned upon here. I only know of one person who's ever taken it (for weight loss of course) - that's why I mentioned Dex/Adderall, because those wouldn't be hard to get prescribed. Phentermine was part of a popular weight loss combo - the other drug was recalled due to cardiotoxicity but phentermine is still available, but rarely prescribed. I'd have to get a GP to prescribe it, since I highly doubt my psychiatrist would prescribe a weight loss drug.
But the suggestion is right on mark, and appreciated.
> Have you considered trying Parnate as a substitute for Nardil - this doesnt cause weight gain (although it isnt as good for anxiety as Nardil is)
Parnate I reached an interesting conclusion with. I developed tolerance to it, such that, there was no "barrier" between an effective dose and a dose that threw me into mania. In other words, it either did nothing at all or at 100-120mg made me manic. This was not how it started for me; it happened gradually.
I went off meds (except Klonopin) entirely for several months after this, trying decide what route to take. Ended up on Nardil. It's a shame, too, because it worked so well, especially before the tolerance problem set in. I would note that I am not otherwise prone to mania, although I have been diagnosed (at times) with BPII disorder due to some hypomanic things I did on Zoloft, which very well could have been normal things that all college students do.
Currently back to major depression.
> BTW, what did you decide about sleeping pills?Aye, that's a tough one. As Ambien has been causing me to wake up and binge eat at 3am (even though I am fully conscious) and have to take another one, I am just alternating between Ambien, temazepam (which isn't as effective as it once was) and doxylamine.
There's been no magic bullet for that one yet. Exercise helps - but the kind I need to do in the gym. I live in a big city and prefer not to walk around at night.
I'm pondering a gym membership but first I'd have to be convinced I'd use it. I probably might still need a hypnotic, but perhaps not as high a dose.
Still working on that one. :-)
Thanks -
z
Posted by atypical on October 9, 2011, at 23:26:59
In reply to Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 14:42:02
Zonked,
I've been taking Nardil for a few years now at about 60-75mg dose. I would say I've gained five pounds overall since taking it, but that might also be due to normal aging-related weight gain. Maybe this is luck or maybe hard work. Exercise is sort of built into my day. I bike 15-20 minutes to work every day (and back). So that's a given. But I also go to the gym and do cardio exercises (or run outside) *at least* three times a week for about 30-40 mins. Fortunately I do not experience any abnormal cravings due to the medication. I rarely eat desserts like ice cream or cookies. I don't drink sugary beverages, and definitely no soda. I even quit diet soda.
I am pleased with my body. I have great muscle tone, except I do have fat around my midsection, which annoys the heck out of me. It just doesn't go away. I know some other folks like pedr experience this too.
So this has been my experience, which may be, well, atypical.
Atypical
Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 12, 2011, at 21:26:34
In reply to Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by zonked on October 9, 2011, at 14:42:02
Ask your doctor about metformin.
I'm not quite sure why I never did that while I was on Nardil, but that should fix the weight gain problem.
Posted by jedi on October 14, 2011, at 1:26:34
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by Chairman_MAO on October 12, 2011, at 21:26:34
z, I had some huge initial weight gain on Nardil. Over 100 lbs. This never would have happened to me now. It has taken a long time to get rid of it and it is an ongoing battle. Huge physical exertion on an almost daily basis is the best answer. When you are severely depressed this can be impossible. But as you recover, it can be done.
The other thing that works for me is a modified low carb diet. Nardil makes me crave the sweet carbohydrates. It also does something to the feedback mechanism that tells your body it is full. On 90mg, three peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at bedtime, was no problem. Doesn't take long to pack on the pounds like that. When I cut out almost all white food, the problem goes away. I'm talking bread, sugar, potatoes, rice, etc. Fruits and juices are also high in carbs. I eat a high protein and vegetable diet. This cuts the carb cravings like nothing else. It can be a bitch at first, because these high carb foods make you feel good. But it can be done, and you don't miss them after a while.
Be Well,
JediPS Get lots of fiber. Fiber calories don't count as carbs. I use psyllium husk.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 14, 2011, at 21:47:41
In reply to Re: Long-time Nardilers: The weight gain problem, posted by jedi on October 14, 2011, at 1:26:34
Jedi, you are correct.
Unfortunately, not everyone--especially someone coping with a mental illness--can actually implement this. Purely from a health standpoint, I think it is better to take medication to help offset that effect of phenelzine (unless it is desired, because it is in some cases) from the beginning.
This is the end of the thread.
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