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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zonked on August 26, 2011, at 18:41:54
Phew. Guys, I want to apologize for the poor punctuation and at times spelling (bad autocorrect on my ancient flip cell phone) in recent posts. Typing a post takes forever on that thing, if the browser doesn't crash or I don't get a call.
So, yeah. Day two of AndroGel (testosterone 1% 25mg packets) and I feel:
Minimal depression (day one)
No depression (day two)
Minimized anxiety (days one and two)
Increased motivation/energy (more day two)
Increased self confidence (instead of moping in my room and worrying about what could go wrong, I do things - mostly day two)I have not Nardil-napped today for the first time in I don't know how long. Caffeine has been involved, as I slept poorly last night.
I haven't taken my second Xanax dose today yet. THAT is incredible!
I am not 100%, but feel better than I have since some time in June or early July. I won't be 100% until I fix my life. I am in the process of doing so.
If this is placebo effect (which I acknowledge it could be) then my brain is way more powerful than I think.
Now, here's what I wanted to express: What if low testosterone has been the problem THE WHOLE TIME? I won't fret about years lost if it turns out I can dump my psych meds and just take TRT (or still require them, but also TRT), but I will be irritated with the doctors over the years who said "no" to a TRT trial, even with evidence, because my testosterone always tested "low normal" (low 400s). "Low normal" for one person might be "way too low" for another. I first tested "low normal" at age 16 or 17, before I ever became depressed.
I am thankful for my doctor who was willing to give this a shot, and acknowledged he was familiar with the research. I forgot to ask him if I was his first patient on such a trial.
I am thankful for the board, also, which when I feel like life is nothing but dragging myself from one blah event or errand to the next, and sleep; has been essential to keeping my hopes up as I sledge through this.
I will keep everyone updated. I have reasonable expectations: That is, I would not be surprised if this keeps me in remission. I would also not be surprised if several weeks from now, I find myself frustrated again.
What's kind of interesting is that now we have a diagnostic number to go by. That's one thing Lithium responders have that most of us do not - a laboratory test to make sure things are at a proper level. I'm excited to see where I'm at next month. I am pretty sure it won't be low 400s. :-)
-z
90 mg Nardil (30 t.i.d.)
1mg Xanax b.i.d
1 gelpouch AndroGel every morning after showering
10mg Ambien [this one needs work if I sleep poorly again tonight]
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2011, at 18:55:03
In reply to Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax), posted by zonked on August 26, 2011, at 18:41:54
Will definitely stay on my bioidentical hormones estriadol, progesterone, Testosterone and see if same miracle happens for me. I'm thinking you hopefully have found a missing link for many people with depression. Congrats Zonked!!! Phillipa
Posted by zonked on August 26, 2011, at 19:21:42
In reply to Re: Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax) » zonked, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2011, at 18:55:03
> Will definitely stay on my bioidentical hormones estriadol, progesterone, Testosterone and see if same miracle happens for me. I'm thinking you hopefully have found a missing link for many people with depression. Congrats Zonked!!! Phillipa
I seriously think it's not looked at enough. I remember the first time I heard of this for depression, it was a 60 minutes (could have been 48 hours or another clone) piece on WOMEN taking testosterone for depression. If I am timing my memory right, I saw this piece before my first episode because I think I was in high school.
I found out about TRT for depression in men after Zoloft (my first AD) pooped out. Now, 9 years later, I finally get to try it thanks to a shrink who isn't afraid to try something a little unusual.
Thanks Phillipa. :-)
-z
Posted by Lepus on August 26, 2011, at 19:39:36
In reply to Re: Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax) » Phillipa, posted by zonked on August 26, 2011, at 19:21:42
I definitely think the role of hormones in women with depression/anxiety is not given enough attention. Throughout my cycle I know how I will feel. Given how our hormones fluctuate throughout the month, you would think the doctors could help me figure out a solution regarding hormones. But no. I know part of my problem is hormone related but there is just no solution there, even after seeing several endocrinologists.
I'm so glad you have found some relief. Fingers crossed it continues!
Posted by floatingbridge on August 26, 2011, at 19:46:19
In reply to Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax), posted by zonked on August 26, 2011, at 18:41:54
Yay! I hope this gives you that good baseline you've been working to recover. This would be great. And simple. And concrete. Like the lithium test. Or thyroid for some. A number to stay with.
:-)
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2011, at 21:05:26
In reply to Re: Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax) » zonked, posted by floatingbridge on August 26, 2011, at 19:46:19
Also find a bioidentical hormone doctor will either run blood tests or saliva tests and treat your hormones specifically for you. Based on results of tests and monitor them closely. Google bioidentical hormones. Phillipa
Posted by uncouth on August 28, 2011, at 1:29:31
In reply to Re: Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax), posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2011, at 21:05:26
hey
i can't remember if i posted about this two months ago but your experience with androgel is almost exactly similar to mine. i have had TRT depression / bipolar depression for 7 years now, at times its been better sometimes its been worse. my T tested low 500s last year, endo gave me androgel, i used max dose but never really felt meaningful response. also tried T shots a few times but not sure i ever did them correctly (should have just had doctor do them every week).9 months lager, my T had actually DROPPED to mid 300s. so this was why i had no libido, no passion, drive for the world. i could orgasm just fine and could get an erection but the more important parts of libido, the passion, desire for a relationship, love, etc. wasn't ever there. it was all mechanical and hopeless etc. and of course depression was unresponsive to many meds including dopamine stimulation.
SO went back to endo, said F this androgel, it didn't do anything, and now my T is even lower. what to do. well he gave me this brand new T gel that you use under your underarm called Axiron. WHoa. Definitely felt a difference, within a few days. Sexy thoughts came back, energy level, depression improved. Like you I said, so wow you mean i just had low T the whole time? And my pdoc didn't look at this option? I was pretty pissed. I felt good enough to decrease my bupropion from 800mg to 600mg.
Well it was either the bupropion decrease or i just developed tolerance to the T becuase i've kinda reverted to baseline. I am still using two swipes of Axiron. I can tell that i've gained muscle mass (i have a big build) the past two months from the T, though, and not even by doing any weightlifting. Its kinda brought me back to my previous frame size. I am going and getting new labs on monday so we'll see where T is at. I wont' be afraid to push the dose higher if necessary, as i need to get sexual desire and libido back somehow. I can't go on like this. The only weird thing was that the first two weeks of axiron, the sexual thoughts that came back were of sex with MEN, and i don't consider myself gay. Maybe a little bi but i had a huge crush on a girl at the time, have only had GFs in the past, etc. So yes it was a little distressing for me to start cruising around for random hookups with gay guys. Well more than a little distressing (thats for another post). So maybe there is too much going on, i think my sexual preference switch was more due to the general hypersexuality or hypomanic tendencies, and the facct that at least in SF, the quickest way to find someone to get you off is to typically target gay men. Much "easier" than to bag a girl at a bar. At least for me.
So anyway thats MY story. Please keep posting on androgel and T experience. Watch out for hypomania or hypersexuality and please be open and honest and share fi you will any other odd "side effects" of the sexual nature.
OH and i would highly recommend the Axiron instead of the androgel which made absolutley no difference to me.
uncouth
Posted by roscopeeco on August 30, 2011, at 20:27:44
In reply to Day two: Thoughts on AndroGel (+Nardil +Xanax), posted by zonked on August 26, 2011, at 18:41:54
TRT can definitely help. I remember a point in my life where I felt incredible. I was taking a supplement from GNC. It was a "testosterone booster". I was also taking creatine pills along with weight training.
This is the end of the thread.
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