![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 16:24:43
I just took Nardil for four months - it was the Gavis version, was extremely effective, was prosocial, killed social anxiety, killed rejection sensitivity, was fantastic for mood. Incredible effects.
Then... darkness.
Within the course of a few days I got: extreme hypertension, rapid heartbeat, trouble breathing, discoloration of skin, chron's disease type symptoms, double vision, diplopia, diabetic symptoms, edema of the face and belly, and a full blown paranoid schizophrenic episode that lasted two days (never been delusional in my life).
God damn you, Nardil.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:01:51
In reply to Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 16:24:43
Michael, how disappointing and awful this sounds. Have any physical symproms remitted yet?
How long have you been off?
I would be feeling crushed. And maybe angry. What are you doing now may I ask?
Posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 17:17:38
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth » Michael Bell, posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:01:51
> Michael, how disappointing and awful this sounds. Have any physical symproms remitted yet?
>
> How long have you been off?
>
> I would be feeling crushed. And maybe angry. What are you doing now may I ask?
>I am on my second week of withdrawal. The double vision and many of the other symptoms have remitted. However, I still get myoclonic jerking/convulsions when falling asleep.
I am pissed. Disappointed. Hurt. I am one of the Nardil OGs (original gangstas). I used to take it before the formula changed, when it was the most awesome drug ever. Let me tell you, the Gavis version may not be quite as good as the original formula, but damn it is pretty good.
I also realized something else. Nardil can kill you. Not just from hypertensive crises, but from other side effects that most people don't get. For some reason I got them all. So while I am extremely disappointed, I am also very wary of ever going back on again. I'm just not sure what to do.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:38:17
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 17:17:38
> I am on my second week of withdrawal. The double vision and many of the other symptoms have remitted. However, I still get myoclonic jerking/convulsions when falling asleep.I had that just getting off my 6mg of Emsam :-/
>
> I am pissed. Disappointed. Hurt. I am one of the Nardil OGs (original gangstas). I used to take it before the formula
changed, when it was the most awesome drug ever. Let me tell you, the Gavis version may not be quite as good as the original formula, but damn it is pretty good.
>You restarted mostly for social phobia if I remember correctly?
> I also realized something else. Nardil can kill you. Not just from hypertensive crises, but from other side effects that most people don't get. For some reason I got them all. So while I am extremely disappointed, I am also very wary of ever going back on again. I'm just not sure what to do.
Why do you suspect you had such an awful reaction? Are you much older than the previous maintenance run? The formulation itself?
There is a poster who had parnate as a to-go drug for years, then it provoked RA. I think that poster went to amitriptylne.
I am really sorry. So the other sides, like the emergence of chrohns is still with you?
Anything to help with your withdrawal?
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2011, at 20:51:09
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 17:17:38
Michael I didn't know it had all those side effects. I do remember a poster that had the same thing happen. Just went on a benzo then was a famous photographer from NYC. Cant give his name but poster name I think was something like CK1? Phillipa
Posted by lifelover on August 11, 2011, at 21:48:52
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 17:17:38
Hey mike sorry about what happened. Id say go back on it but take lithium or and anti psychotic to suppress any potential skitzo or paranoid side effects. Also how does the Gavis nardil compare to the pfizer. And is it still no where near as good as the original? Or is it closer?
Posted by Michael Bell on August 12, 2011, at 14:39:20
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:38:17
Yeah I took it for social phobia and rejection sensitivity, which I guess could be a symptom of atypical depression, though I was never diagnosed with depression.
As far as why I got all of those symptoms, I have no idea. There are some I forgot to mention. My veins became very small and almost collapsed, in a sense. Doctors had extremely hard time getting blood from me, when just a week earlier (and my shole life) my veins were always very full and perfect for drawing blood. It's almost like Nardil was doing something to my circulatory system. I believe this all started happening when I went up to 60 mg, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
On top of that, I had started getting seizures and my vision would go black for a couple of seconds and I would see very vivid geometrical patterns.
Oh, and I also started getting auditory hallucinations (though I think this was from the Xyrem, not the Nardil).
It is like I was experiencing, one by one, every single side effect listed on the packet insert. Nothing like this has ever happened to me in my life.
I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that I also take Xyrem? They are not officially contraindicated, but you never know.
Posted by Michael Bell on August 12, 2011, at 14:45:25
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by lifelover on August 11, 2011, at 21:48:52
I want to go back on it. Believe me. But tt's not so much the paranoia I am worried about, because I can always add abilify to the mix. But what about the distended belly? The moon face (edema)? The seizures and convulsions? The symptomology of chron's and perhaps Grave's disease (according to the doctor). The hypertension? The rapid heartbeat? The circulatory problems? The double vision? The red eye? THe skin discoloration? I mean, I just have a gut feeling that, if I had continued, the Nardil was going to eventually cause some sort of systemic or organic damage that would not be reversible. Did I go too high with my dose? If I had stayed at 45 mgs, would any of this have happened? Was this just a very bad once in a lifetime experience that I would never experience again? Is this only something that the Gavis Nardil produces? God only knows...
Posted by bleauberry on August 12, 2011, at 17:19:46
In reply to Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 16:24:43
How do you know without a doubt it was the nardil? It doesn't sound like it to me.
Posted by Michael Bell on August 12, 2011, at 19:39:08
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by bleauberry on August 12, 2011, at 17:19:46
> How do you know without a doubt it was the nardil? It doesn't sound like it to me.
Because within a week of being off the nardil all my symptoms cleared up.
Posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2011, at 21:12:44
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 12, 2011, at 19:39:08
Michael I feel you were lucky to get off and feeling better now. Maybe you developed an allergy to it? If you can to antibiotics or other meds why not this also? Phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on August 12, 2011, at 21:49:50
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 11, 2011, at 17:17:38
Posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 10:15:26
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth, posted by Michael Bell on August 12, 2011, at 19:39:08
Ok then, I hear ya, I'm with you. No one knows better than you. So if you say it was Nardil, then it was. Agreed.
Actually if you think about it, everything you described is pretty much what you could expect during a rapid withdrawal. So it makes me wonder....was there something in the diet recently that screwed with the absorption of the med? Was their something wrong in the formulation of the med that you got an inconsistent ingredient from pill to pill or bottle to bottle? We've sure heard a lot about that with nardil over the last few years. In any case, it looks like what would happen if you just suddenly stopped taking it. So the question is, why?
I don't know, other than the above possibilities I mentioned.
Maybe the dose was too high? Ya know, too much feels just as bad as not enough. We usually don't look at it that way, but it's true. A chemical imbalance can not only be fixed with a med, but a new chemical imbalance can be created by taking a wrong dose....overshooting the target.
On the other hand, maybe something happened and now the dose needs to be higher? Ultra high doses are not uncommon with either nardil or parnate.
I know the kind of rapid darkness you talked about. With me it was always a result of taking too much of a med or supplement.
It is an unfair cruel mystery. I wish I had something more useful to say. We all deserve better.
> > How do you know without a doubt it was the nardil? It doesn't sound like it to me.
>
> Because within a week of being off the nardil all my symptoms cleared up.
Posted by hyperfocus on August 16, 2011, at 2:17:32
In reply to Re: Nardil - heaven and hell on earth » lifelover, posted by Michael Bell on August 12, 2011, at 14:45:25
Why were you taking Xyrem at the same time as the Nardil? Xyrem is a pretty powerful anti-anxiety drug isn't it? I never really read about it being used together with Nardil. Usually it's Klonopin or another benzo.
I don't know what to tell you. It could be from interactions with other drugs. Could you state all the drugs you were taking, even non-psych ones like mulitvitamins or bone supplements or herbal preparations?
Hang in there man, we're gonna make it. btw weren't you on Lexapro and Risperdal and doing well with the social phobia?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.