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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 17:55:40
It is the 6th week of my nardil trial and i dont really get whats going on.
Sometimes i have a day where i think ok this is it, this is nardil.. in a couple weeks ill be on cloud 9. Yeah right after that day, next morning: couple suicidal thoughts and a not so good rest of the day.
So hints of nardils effects.. then not anymore. Then a little.
I have many side effects:
Carb cravings , urinary retention, 100% impossible to c*m, i had pretty severe postural hypotension, peed in bed 4 times, twitching, congnitive sides, insomnia strange: sometimes yes other times no.
Is it a good omen that i have the classic nardil side effects? I just want to feel nardil again. There are only two things i wish for my life, have the nardil feeling and have the nardil feeling in socal.
I have to say though that im not that terrible, im better than on ssri at least.
Help please im kinda sad, i cant believe this miracle drug may turn out not be a miracle drug for me anymore
Posted by shot_away on August 6, 2011, at 18:18:03
In reply to Nardil- Side Effects, but little effect. help :(, posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 17:55:40
> It is the 6th week of my nardil trial and i dont really get whats going on.
>
> Sometimes i have a day where i think ok this is it, this is nardil.. in a couple weeks ill be on cloud 9. Yeah right after that day, next morning: couple suicidal thoughts and a not so good rest of the day.
>
> So hints of nardils effects.. then not anymore. Then a little.
>
> I have many side effects:
>
> Carb cravings , urinary retention, 100% impossible to c*m, i had pretty severe postural hypotension, peed in bed 4 times, twitching, congnitive sides, insomnia strange: sometimes yes other times no.
>
> Is it a good omen that i have the classic nardil side effects? I just want to feel nardil again. There are only two things i wish for my life, have the nardil feeling and have the nardil feeling in socal.
>
> I have to say though that im not that terrible, im better than on ssri at least.
>
> Help please im kinda sad, i cant believe this miracle drug may turn out not be a miracle drug for me anymore
>Cyproheptadine for the bladder retention. Extra salt (sodium) in the diet will help raise blood pressure. Sleep issues? Sorry, you'll have to go through them. You sound like you've studied Nardil before deciding on it. You should then know that Nardil side effects can typically last 6-8 months. Sometimes more! Tho if its working you WILL put up with them coz you feel great, well good enough to ride through them.
Um, what dose are you on, what did you start on and how did you escilate? For me it was only 3 weeks in when I got fed up ond went on 60mg. Within a day or 2 bang! I was however meant to start very low and increase very slowly. Doctors orders, but I decided to go the text book way. Tried and tested after all lol.
Number 1 rule for Nardil- NEVER EVER play around with the dose. Its doubtfull you'll get away with it and with suffer somewhat. In what way depends.
Please explain a little more about your dosage regime. Hard to judge without all the facts.
Hope it 'blasts' it's way in soon,
shot
Posted by shot_away on August 6, 2011, at 19:10:34
In reply to Nardil- Side Effects, but little effect. help :(, posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 17:55:40
As an extra note, I find (with my MAOI- Marplan) that even a slight dose adjustment can bring back the side effects, esp the hypotension/fainting/dizziness. For example, I take a high dose for Marplan, 90mg, and I'm sometimes dizzy, sometimes not. If I went to 100mg within a week I wouldn't even be able to see, just as with Nardil when I took it at the beginning. Have you found the hypotension that strong? If I drop to 80mg there is a definite loss of efficiacy so I'm stuck with it. I may try salt myself. Like I said use sodium base salt. I never tried this myself but hundreds say it works and many doctors use the method. Its important to get a PB monitor whether you add salt or not. Its interesting to see changing effects on your bp and what effects it. And even if the dizziness really is allways down to low bp. They are cheap on ebay and realiable and accurate enough.
Posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 23:09:37
In reply to Re: Nardil- Side Effects, but little effect. help :( » Lamdage, posted by shot_away on August 6, 2011, at 19:10:34
Thanks shotaway but its not the side effects im worried about.. I know how to deal with them. What im worried about is that IT DIDNT KICK IN YET!!!
I listed all the side effects to ask if that is a good omen! Lets please leave them out of the way, the side effects arent topic of this thread at all. Topic is if they indicate that nardil should work soon. And topic is also how long it took for nardil 2nd timers, and when in gods name this stuff will kick in.
My dosage has been all over the place.. i got fed up, too. Imagine a year ago i was on 45mg and well hypomanic/euphoric, like its supposed to be in the beginning of nardil treatment.
Right now im at 90-105 mg experimenting a bit. I have been taking nardil for 6 weeks now.. increasing the dosage FAST.I listed all the side effects to state that obviously my body does react to nardil. Just not my brain (yet). I mean obviously the utter inability to orgasm shows that serotonin is up. I just wish i never went off the drug.. 45mg.. and good euphoria. It makes me sad.
What do you think, do the side effects i have indicate that a reaction to the drug treatment in (near) future is likely??
Also im very interested in your experiences with marplan. Its what i will try next if it doesnt kick until end of october. Can you tell me a bit about it?
Thanks in advance
Posted by shot_away on August 7, 2011, at 8:00:46
In reply to Re: Nardil- It didnt kick in yet!! :(:(:(, posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 23:09:37
You should also know it can take 120mg and up to 3 months to kick in. Sometimes an oddon is needed for it to work. A few are Lamictal, Abilify, a TCA, etc... In other words, although your MAO has dropped, something is needed to kick-start it. Often you can take the addon away once stable.
Good luck!
Sincerely,shot
Posted by shot_away on August 7, 2011, at 8:20:47
In reply to Re: Nardil- It didnt kick in yet!! :(:(:(, posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 23:09:37
I know I babblemailed you this already Lamdage, but thought Id stick it on here too. Its info worth postin:
You should also know it can take 120mg and up to 3 months to kick in. Sometimes an addon is needed for it to work. A few are Lamictal, Abilify, a TCA, etc... In other words, although your MAO has dropped, something is needed to kick-start it. Often you can take the addon away once stable.
Not good to play harsh with Nardil, tho one way is to climb steady untill you get a response. Up to 135mg tops id say. BUT, all those proven-wrong meds and foods you've been told not to consume? Avoid them anyway. Just remember, no big sudden dosage jumps. And i also know for some an actual reduction in dosage can 'bring it back'.
Good luck!
Sincerely,shot
Posted by shot_away on August 7, 2011, at 8:26:27
In reply to Re: Nardil- It didnt kick in yet!! :(:(:( » Lamdage, posted by shot_away on August 7, 2011, at 8:20:47
Dam Abilify, makin me all dumb and confused- fun tho and Im not depressed. My new pal Abi :) lol. Sorry 4 the mistakes guys & gals
Posted by Lamdage on August 8, 2011, at 15:18:02
In reply to Re: Nardil- It didnt kick in yet!! :(:(:( » Lamdage, posted by shot_away on August 7, 2011, at 8:20:47
> You should also know it can take 120mg and up to 3 months to kick in. Sometimes an addon is needed for it to work. A few are Lamictal, Abilify, a TCA, etc... In other words, although your MAO has dropped, something is needed to kick-start it. Often you can take the addon away once stable.
And after 3 months the "light switch" may suddenly it me?
After 3 month i could get the euphoria, the pro social and pro confidence effects? Man what i would give to experience that again.
I hope i wont have to take that high of a dosage longterm. I was calculating with 45mg :(What about your Marplan/Marplan vs Nardil experience? Why did you choose to stick with marplan.
Im dying to hear about it! Im sure others here would be interested, tooPeace
Ld
Posted by Lamdage on August 8, 2011, at 21:48:43
In reply to Re: Nardil- It didnt kick in yet!! :(:(:(, posted by Lamdage on August 8, 2011, at 15:18:02
Is it as bad as nardil?
Posted by shot_away on August 9, 2011, at 1:55:31
In reply to And what about marplan in respect to weight gain?, posted by Lamdage on August 8, 2011, at 21:48:43
> Is it as bad as nardil?
No appetite effects at all on Marplan, accept loss of appetite at the very start.
I had weight gain/carb munchies on Nardil. But its ONLY coz I ate more.
I'll get to Marplan soon as I have some time, promise lolshot
Posted by Lamdage on August 10, 2011, at 23:30:40
In reply to Re: Nardil- It didnt kick in yet!! :(:(:(, posted by Lamdage on August 6, 2011, at 23:09:37
Does the full range of side effects i have/have had predict a decent response in the future?
Posted by shot_away on August 11, 2011, at 1:46:01
In reply to Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting, posted by Lamdage on August 10, 2011, at 23:30:40
> Does the full range of side effects i have/have had predict a decent response in the future?
>
>
get on 90mg at least! I think ur gonna need an addon too. Try Abilify. Its worked for me when my MAOI+Klonopin+Valdoxan did diddley sh*t.
Posted by shot_away on August 11, 2011, at 2:16:46
In reply to Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting, posted by Lamdage on August 10, 2011, at 23:30:40
You could try your own 'oh naturell' kickstart. Add L-phenylalinine in the morn & midday (500mg-1g) and L-tryptophan at night (500mg-1g). These are both amino acids and are the building blocks of all tryptamines (inc serotonin & meletonin) & catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine & phenylethylamine). 'Might' help. Go for those aminos instead of Tyrosine or 5-HTP because these have already started the conversion and miss out on many tryptamines (like naturally occuring DMT for one) and other boosters like phenylethylamine. In the latter form they are already on thier way to becoming just the main Mono-amines like serotonin, melatonin, dopamine & norepinephrine. Avoid DLPA unless u are in pain or you cannot source pure L-phenylalinine.
Some herbs might help- St.Johns wort, Kava-kava, Rhodiola. Also SAMe is worth a try. If you try ANY of the above then just watch that BP!!!!!!!
Posted by europerep on August 11, 2011, at 6:35:52
In reply to Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting, posted by Lamdage on August 10, 2011, at 23:30:40
> Does the full range of side effects i have/have had predict a decent response in the future?
No. Maybe you'll respond, maybe not. Noone here can you tell you anything more than that.
Posted by Lamdage on August 11, 2011, at 21:48:25
In reply to Re: Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting » Lamdage, posted by shot_away on August 11, 2011, at 2:16:46
> You could try your own 'oh naturell' kickstart. Add L-phenylalinine in the morn & midday (500mg-1g) and L-tryptophan at night (500mg-1g). These are both amino acids and are the building blocks of all tryptamines (inc serotonin & meletonin) & catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine & phenylethylamine). 'Might' help. Go for those aminos instead of Tyrosine or 5-HTP because these have already started the conversion and miss out on many tryptamines (like naturally occuring DMT for one) and other boosters like phenylethylamine. In the latter form they are already on thier way to becoming just the main Mono-amines like serotonin, melatonin, dopamine & norepinephrine. Avoid DLPA unless u are in pain or you cannot source pure L-phenylalinine.
> Some herbs might help- St.Johns wort, Kava-kava, Rhodiola. Also SAMe is worth a try. If you try ANY of the above then just watch that BP!!!!!!!I have been taking 125mg tryptophan at night and since then i like to wake up real early.. like 5. Which is great. Ive had a couple days were i felt pretty good. One day i even took a higher dose of a mild antipsychotic at night i usually take for sleep because i felt i was bordering hypomania that day. Also, this is strange, i was on 90mg at the time, not 105. I may try again to reduce dosage to 90 or even 75 to see whats up before i increase tryptophan. So its not like i dont feel anything.. Just waiting for the big bang.
Im cautious about the tryptophan because of serotonin syndrome.. Im waiting to get cyproheptadine, not only in case of serotonin syndrome but also because i got the blue balls for more than a month and id like to release some ..pressure.. every couple weeks.
Sorry about being graphic.@Europep, Yeah, i fear youre right. Id just like to hear "yes its a good sign youll be in nardil heaven soon". Or at least some encouragement. Im in week 7 now btw.
Posted by Lamdage on August 11, 2011, at 22:37:43
In reply to Re: Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting, posted by Lamdage on August 11, 2011, at 21:48:25
@shotaway
I think the dosages you suggest though may well mean a ticket to the hospital. Great caution and low starting dose is my advice to anyone who as read shots post.
Lamdage
Posted by Lamdage on August 12, 2011, at 2:41:26
In reply to Re: Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting, posted by Lamdage on August 11, 2011, at 22:37:43
Maybe, just maybe the big bang doesnt come on because my dosage is too HIGH..
I remember back then i didnt have too much trouble to have fun, today it is just completely impossible to climax. Which is a huge pain because the sex drive isnt affected at all. Drivin me nuts..
Back to the topic:Doesnt the complete and utter inability to climax show that today i have way more serotonin action than back then? Maybe now with the high dosage i dont have that balance, dont have my golden combination of neurotransmitters. The fact that i seem to have had more effect with 90 rather than 105 points in that direction.
Posted by hyperfocus on August 16, 2011, at 2:25:07
In reply to No kick in because dosage too high!?, posted by Lamdage on August 12, 2011, at 2:41:26
I guess you need 8 weeks for a full and proper trial, but maybe your expectation of a hypomanic euphoric state isn't realistic? Nardil is supposed to induce something like that at the start of treatment but it goes away naturally and you have to wait a couple of weeks for the real AD effects to kick in.
I know it's hard sitting through months-long med trials, believe me. You're not alone in this, if that's any consolation.
Posted by shot_away on August 16, 2011, at 12:57:05
In reply to Re: Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting, posted by Lamdage on August 11, 2011, at 22:37:43
> @shotaway
>
> I think the dosages you suggest though may well mean a ticket to the hospital. Great caution and low starting dose is my advice to anyone who as read shots post.
>
> LamdageMAOIs IMHO are hugely over-cautioned. My doc thinks so too. But whatever makes you most comfortable I suppose.
Posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 16:23:08
In reply to Re: Come on guys.. im having a rough time waiting » Lamdage, posted by shot_away on August 16, 2011, at 12:57:05
Hey guys,
what can i say.. ive been going down from 105 to 75 and guess what: it has way way more effect than at the high dosage.
Last night i didnt sleep at all despite sleep meds. During the day i cant really say i was too tired. I felt fine actually lol
This points towards mania. If this continues the remainder of the week i will stop bupropion pronto. And probably go down to 60. Why pay all this money if less is more?
No worries though, right now i am so utterly loaded with hypnotics.. ill get sleep ;)
Strange stuff.. but i like it. Maybe the euphoria will build up if i further lower the dosage. Possibly until 45mg, my golden dosage from back then.
Posted by shot_away on August 16, 2011, at 17:09:59
In reply to Paradox, but: Lower dosage equals better effect, posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 16:23:08
> Hey guys,
>
> what can i say.. ive been going down from 105 to 75 and guess what: it has way way more effect than at the high dosage.
>
> Last night i didnt sleep at all despite sleep meds. During the day i cant really say i was too tired. I felt fine actually lol
>
> This points towards mania. If this continues the remainder of the week i will stop bupropion pronto. And probably go down to 60. Why pay all this money if less is more?
>
> No worries though, right now i am so utterly loaded with hypnotics.. ill get sleep ;)
>
>
> Strange stuff.. but i like it. Maybe the euphoria will build up if i further lower the dosage. Possibly until 45mg, my golden dosage from back then.So, is euphoria what you are actually wanting? Your goal? Thats not very healthy. Most of us just want to feel 'normal'. Its a dangerous game too. Many alternatives will give you your euphoria alot quicker than Nardil LOL
Posted by shot_away on August 16, 2011, at 17:12:24
In reply to Paradox, but: Lower dosage equals better effect, posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 16:23:08
This is the end of the thread.
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