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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 13:58:55
If I went off of 50mgs seroquel, 200mgs lamictal, 150mgs effexor xr and .5mgs klonopin would I feel like crap? Probably....
But that's the problem with meds...you can't get off them.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 14:08:35
In reply to Stopping meds, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 13:58:55
My issues are anxiety, depression, PTSD, social phobia/anxiety, with mood lability, irritability at times, very occasional hypomania
family history positive on both sides for psych illness, questionable bipolar on both sides, some psychosis on one side, strong presence of alcoholism on one side.
I'm saying this as if this means a damn thing for me, or whether I just need to get my "sh*t together" as they so nicely say.
Posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 14:18:53
In reply to Stopping meds, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 13:58:55
It is not an either/or thing. Very likely if you got off (once you had got over the discontinuation), you would feel physically better.
Let's say you were reducing your meds one at a time.
Which would you choose to reduce first?
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 14:28:04
In reply to Re: Stopping meds, posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 14:18:53
Seroquel, because of sedation and weight gain
Then
Klonopin
Then effexor because it's such a pain
Then lamictal
Posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 14:45:30
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » sigismund, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 14:28:04
You could consider lowering the Seroquel to zero over a (say) three month period.
If they were all lowered over three months, that would be a year.
Allowing for backsliding and the usual crises, let's say three years.
There is a mindset (certainly when it comes to addictive drugs) that looks at it in an all or nothing way, contemplating the present with dislike and the future with dread.
It is better to try to forget all that and just tell yourself that you will no doubt take it again, but for the moment you will delay it until you need it.
Perhaps that way could be useful to you?
Posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2011, at 16:03:01
In reply to Stopping meds, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 13:58:55
Yeah, if you went off all those meds from those doses, feeling like crap is an understatement. Landing in the emergency room wouldn't surprise me, unless you are tough and nails and can weather the storm for at least a few weeks and maybe a few months. You're right, it's hard to get out of the hole once you're in it. But we never know it's going to be hole until we try, so that stinks.
Here's another strategy. Ok it looks apparent that your meds are not helping much. If that assumption is true, then you need to try some new meds. But that does not mean you have to stop the current ones. You can instead do cross tapers. That is, lower the dose of the one you want to get rid of while introducing a new one.
Seroquel for example could go almost straight across to 2.5mg zyprexa, if you want to stay with antipsychotics. My opinion is zyprexa is a far better med than seroquel. I don't even know why they should prescribe seroquel, except maybe as a sleep med or to knock out elephants. I know it looks ok in studies, but in the real world I just don't see it. Zyprexa looks good in both studies and the real world.
Lamictal. Hmm. Ya know, even in clinical studies the best it did was prevent a relapse for up to 9 months, assuming it works in the first place. I mean, it does work magic with a few people, but hey you are at a good dose and it isn't doing that, so it doesn't look like you are one of those people and thus no reason to stay with it. I honestly don't think you would need a replacement for it, except maybe a very low dose of lithium (50mg-300mg).
Effexor would be tough. Prozac is useful when withdrawing from effexor. You could even just do a straight across swap, or do a careful cross taper. Prozac and zyprexa happen to go real well together. Whatever you do, benedryl is supposedly helpful for withdrawing from effexor.
.5mg klonopin doesn't look like too much of a problem, except maybe that it is worsening your depression. You could decrease it in tiny steps. A better replacement, if anxiety is the issue, would be xanax, since it has some antidepressant potential. There are a handful of botanical medicines that can do the same power as that dose of klonopin.
Whatever you do, decrease doses in tiny steps. I personally think that is even more important than the length of time of the weaning process. Actually the smaller the steps the longer the weaning will be anyway, so that's cool. By tiny steps I mean opening a capsule of effexor and taking out some of its contents. I don't mean gong down to the next available dose size from the pharmacy. That is too big of a step. If it is a pill you're dealing with, cut off a tiny chunk of it. The amount you decrease doesn't have to be exact from day to day, as long as the trend is basically heading downward in small steps. For me I would stay at each new step about 2 to 4 days to see what would happen before going any further.
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2011, at 17:39:45
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » sigismund, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 14:28:04
Personally I wouldn't add zyprexa then as known weight gainer. I'd taper off the seroquel. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on August 6, 2011, at 19:21:26
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » sleepygirl2, posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 14:45:30
sg, some good thoughts from sigi, maybe helpful? It isn't either or. Lots of people don't have their sh*t together. They are out waging war or other mayhem. I sometimes wish those folks would get drugged up to the gills and leave the rest of us with a bit more peace.
People can their sh*t together with or without medication. You can reduce and get off, but what is the hurry? Heck, be kind and go slowly.
Like BB said, and, well take my experience. I ended up in the ER because I was yelling my head off and having what I now realize were siezures. I would never expect anyone to
endure that. I had the worst reoccurrence of PTSD in my flipping unbelievably long life.I ain't worried about you, sg, as just speaking bluntly. Hope it isn't out of bounds.
I might bump effexor up higher on the list after seroquel because it could be a bit of a bear. Maybe not. I hope not. But at least you would have the support of lamictal and klonopin. Some do use a Prozac withdrawal successfully to make the AD discontinuance easier.
> You could consider lowering the Seroquel to zero over a (say) three month period.
>
> If they were all lowered over three months, that would be a year.
>
> Allowing for backsliding and the usual crises, let's say three years.
>
> There is a mindset (certainly when it comes to addictive drugs) that looks at it in an all or nothing way, contemplating the present with dislike and the future with dread.
>
> It is better to try to forget all that and just tell yourself that you will no doubt take it again, but for the moment you will delay it until you need it.
>
> Perhaps that way could be useful to you?
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2011, at 19:38:42
In reply to Re: Stopping meds, posted by floatingbridge on August 6, 2011, at 19:21:26
FB seizures? I thought severe anxiety? Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on August 6, 2011, at 21:09:57
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2011, at 19:38:42
> FB seizures? I thought severe anxiety?
They were tiny little ones. I didn't realize for awhile that's what was probably happening. There is a word for micro seizure like events, yes? Maybe siezures isn't right. Involuntary stiffening and jerking? Intermittent non-fluid motion?
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 7, 2011, at 0:35:00
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on August 6, 2011, at 21:09:57
partial seizures??
I have had my own version of those.
Those can make people really not themselves as I understand it.
Sorry fb, about that happening, and thanks for the logic. I'm just spinning my wheels looking for some direction. I've been on this train a long time, and I guess I never wanted it to be long term.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 7, 2011, at 0:42:15
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » sleepygirl2, posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 14:45:30
yes...patience?
I suppose I can muster some.
thanks
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 7, 2011, at 0:44:45
In reply to Re: Stopping meds, posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2011, at 16:03:01
thanks bb for the thoughtful, helpful post.
:-)
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 7, 2011, at 8:26:51
In reply to Stopping meds, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 13:58:55
> If I went off of 50mgs seroquel, 200mgs lamictal, 150mgs effexor xr and .5mgs klonopin would I feel like crap? Probably....
> But that's the problem with meds...you can't get off them.
>
sg2,
You wrote,[...you xxx get off them (meds)...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could answer the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or False
A. You do not know of anyone that has got off them
B. There could be those that have got off them unbeknownst to you
C. The (meds) are addictive
D. One could kill themselves during the withdrawal period
E. One could kill others during a withdrawal period
F. The drug manufacturers spell this out to the doctors.
G. The doctors that prescribe the drugs have the taker of the drugs sign a form that they have been warned that they could kill themselves after taking the drug.
H. The same doctors spell it out to the taker of the drug that they could (redacted by respondent)
I. Those that say that they got off these drugs did so by a means unbeknownst to you.
K. I would like to know how I could get off drugs (meds)
L. This site has led me to believe that one can not (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 7, 2011, at 22:19:52
In reply to Stopping meds, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 6, 2011, at 13:58:55
If you want to get off of them I would
1. Stop one at a time, not all of them at once
2. Taper each drug slowly down over 4-6 weeks, rather than suddenly stopping cold turkey
It might then take six months for you to be totaly drug free, but whats the rush
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 9, 2011, at 20:47:46
In reply to Re: Stopping meds, posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 7, 2011, at 22:19:52
thanks
I just don't know what to do.
you make good sense :-)
I just hate being stuck on this stuff. I just don't think it's helping.
Of course though...I'm not helping myself. I'm not going to the gym. My sleep is crap. I just want to stay in bed on the weekends, haven't been forcing myself to do things.
doesn't matter though, if it's truly helping or not, I will have to face rebound symptoms, and it's not going to be pretty.
one at a time over 4-6 weeks?
hmmm....
I've done the math. It sounds reasonable.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 9, 2011, at 20:56:01
In reply to Re: Stopping meds » jono_in_adelaide, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 9, 2011, at 20:47:46
Your sleep is crap, too?
I haven't seen any dreams lately.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 9, 2011, at 20:57:11
In reply to Lou's request-knt » sleepygirl2, posted by Lou Pilder on August 7, 2011, at 8:26:51
hi
You have a lot of questions that I don't think I can answer. Using straight logic doesn't do it justice.
I don't think there are bad intentions on the part of drug companies and doctors (at least the majority).
I know drug companies are motivated by their bottom line, but I'd like to believe that their products are from the benefit of research, albeit imperfect.
I dunno.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 10, 2011, at 9:57:22
In reply to Re: Lou's request-knt » Lou Pilder, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 9, 2011, at 20:57:11
Friends,
If you are considering being discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view thhe following video. To view this video:
Lou
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in;
[youtube, The marketing of madness:The about psychotropic drugs, part 2/2]
You will see a pic of a woman and it is posted on Feb 2010
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 10, 2011, at 16:22:40
In reply to Lou's request-urbeengihndokneytd, posted by Lou Pilder on August 10, 2011, at 9:57:22
> Friends,
> If you are considering being discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view thhe following video. To view this video:
> Lou
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in;
> [youtube, The marketing of madness:The about psychotropic drugs, part 2/2]
> You will see a pic of a woman and it is posted on Feb 2010Friends,
If you are considring to be a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
Lou
To view this video;
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in;
[youtube, 11-What psychotropic drugs do-part 1]
Then after that you could do the continuation as clicking on the side where it reads,[What psychotropic drugs do]
Then there is aa number of other videos
Now I am trying to save lives here and to help people rid themselves of these drugs and be free from depression and addiction. i KNOW FIRST HABD THAT ONE CAN OVERCOME THE EFFECTS OF THESE DRUGS SO IF ANYONE TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE ON YOUR DRUG FOR LIFE, TELL THEM THAT THERE IS A GUY THAT HAS BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE HERE FOR YEARS HOW THEY COULD BE FREE FROM THEIR DRUG AND THE ADMINISTRATIN HAS MANY PROHIBITIONS POSTED TO HIM THAT PREVENT HIM FROM GIVING THE EDUCATION AND SUPPORT THAT COULD HELP OTHERS. tHE PROHIBITIONS ARE FOUND IN THE ARCHIVES DEALING WITH THE PROHIBITION OF POSTING MORE THAN 3 CONSECUTIVE POSTS AND POSTING EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL THAT COULD BE LINKED TO THE ERE OF TIME FROM 1933 TO 1945 AND THE PROHIBITION OF POSTING THE FOUNDATION OF jUDAISM AS REVEALED TO ME AS WELL AS OTHER PROHIBITIONS.
As for members here that are supporting the prohibitions, they (redacted by respondent)
Lou
This is the end of the thread.
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