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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by joe schmoe on July 26, 2011, at 12:23:00
In reply to Re: Day 6 of Viibryd, posted by Chris O on July 26, 2011, at 5:09:09
I have had two brief episodes recently of chest pain, both late at night or early in the morning when going to bed or getting up. Could be heartburn, but it's a kind of pain I last felt while on Wellbutrin, where I used to get long lasting chest tightness and pain along with anxiety. Hopefully this is just another passing side effect.
Had difficulty sleeping again.
Posted by mantus on July 27, 2011, at 8:52:19
In reply to Day 26 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 26, 2011, at 12:23:00
I just have to continue to thank you all for your willingness to talk about your trial. I know that if some of my other physical issues go away, Viibryd will be my next choice and I am extremely interested in seeing how real people respond to it. I again thank you, and hope that you can continue your tril with updates until maybe being on 40mg for a month or so? I know you don't want to keep talking about it forever. :)
Thanks,
Mantus
Posted by joe schmoe on July 27, 2011, at 15:21:47
In reply to Re: Day 26 of Viibryd, posted by mantus on July 27, 2011, at 8:52:19
Had a good night's sleep last night for a change.
In the course of starting Viibryd, I have been cycling on and off tongkat ali and maca as usual. They are still effective, i.e. better sexual sensation and libido when on them than off; they are just more effective than they would have been if I was on Celexa. So I don't think Viibryd by itself is going to get me back to a normal sexual state.
Of course, I am middle aged, so I don't expect to feel 25 again just from quitting celexa, even if I hadn't taken antidepressants for ten years. And I do think the celexa did some permanent damage; I have been off it before, on no AD at all for months at a time, and sexual sensations/libido never returned to what I remember before. I can't expect Viibryd to be better than no AD at all. It's not a sexual stimulant after all, it's an AD. So for those trying it, who see some return of sexual sensations and libido but still want more, I would encourage you to experiment with the various sex-boosters mentioned in this thread and elsewhere.
Also I cycled back onto tongkat ali and maca in the last few days after a week or so off them, and I notice that my sense of taste is affected! Diet sodas now seem sickly sweet while beers have gone from bitter to good-tasting. So I think these herbs or whatever the proper term for them is, have some beneficial effects other than sexual. I think they also can work to correct the oversensitivity to bitter tastes that has been plaguing me the past six months, ruining beer tasting off and on. Don't know why I didn't think of it before, but it is possible my taste experiences have been linked to whether I was "on" or "off" in the herb cycling.
This probably isn't an issue unless you like to consume bitter foods like beer, dark chocolate, coffee, grapefruit etc. but if you find they taste worse on ssris, well, it's no accident. As I mentioned in the first post in this thread, this study found ssris greatly increase the taste sensation of bitterness.
Maybe these supplements are the answer to that problem. I will try to keep track and correlate beer taste with supplement cycling and see.
By the way I have gained weight on Viibryd. Seems to make me hungrier most of the time, especially for sweets. I'm going to have to really watch it if I don't want to balloon up - losing weight will be no joke if this continues.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 29, 2011, at 15:43:37
In reply to Day 27 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 27, 2011, at 15:21:47
Been in a great mood lately. No emotional blunting here, that's for sure.
No chest pains or restless legs or loose bowels either, and no dizziness. No anxiety either. I think the annoying side effects have basically gone away, with the exception of getting to sleep, which can be a challenge sometimes, although staying asleep isn't, fortunately.
The next challenge will be to try to lose some weight on this thing - put a lot on with Celexa and I don't think Viibryd is going to make it any easier to drop it. I can't keep sweets in the house - even stuff I normally dislike like dark chocolate, or I will eat the whole bar in a few hours, a piece at a time.
Posted by Chris O on July 29, 2011, at 16:19:45
In reply to Day 29 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 29, 2011, at 15:43:37
That's good to hear this stuff is working for someone. I'm one day 5ish, and so far, nothing much, except perhaps a bit of activation, which is not really pleasant. I'm going to go up to 40mg in the next couple of days just to see if this stuff works for me. Haven't had much luck with SSRIs at all, but not really ready to do the Nardil thing either.
Posted by markwell on July 30, 2011, at 6:05:31
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on July 29, 2011, at 16:19:45
What is activation like? I hope that one goes away. Is that why the problem with insomnia?
Mark
Posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 6:45:21
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd, posted by markwell on July 30, 2011, at 6:05:31
The activation is mild compared to, say, Zoloft or Wellbutrin for me. However, it's still there. Insomnia for me is chronic, so I cannot tell if it has changed after 7 days on this med. I have the sleep 2-3 hour sleep/wake pattern I've had for the past decade or so. In terms of sexual side effects, well, those are here for me. Lack of pleasure/difficulty reaching orgasm is there, even at Day 7. It also has some anti-anxiety effect, but not great at this point. I'm going to continue to post as this goes on.
Chris
Posted by joe schmoe on July 30, 2011, at 10:51:44
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » markwell, posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 6:45:21
> The activation is mild compared to, say, Zoloft or Wellbutrin for me. However, it's still there. Insomnia for me is chronic, so I cannot tell if it has changed after 7 days on this med. I have the sleep 2-3 hour sleep/wake pattern I've had for the past decade or so. In terms of sexual side effects, well, those are here for me. Lack of pleasure/difficulty reaching orgasm is there, even at Day 7. It also has some anti-anxiety effect, but not great at this point. I'm going to continue to post as this goes on.
Are you following the normal taper up of 10 mg for a week, 20 mg for a week, and then 40 mg on Day 15? In an earlier post it sounded like you were going to jump to 40mg after a few days.Just trying to clarify what you mean by "Day 7."
Have you had any dizziness?
Posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 15:35:26
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » Chris O, posted by joe schmoe on July 30, 2011, at 10:51:44
Joe:
I've taken 20mg for the last four days. So, I'm on Day 7, the last four days at 20mg. I haven't gone up to 40mg yet. I will probably jump up there in the next few days if I do not feel much of an effect at 20mg. I haven't had any dizziness. No weight gain either. (I just lost 10 pounds after stopping one and a half years of Paxil, then Serzone.) Side effects, so far, seem to be the lack of pleasure/difficulty reaching orgasm, as I mentioned, and some mild activation. I guess I'll just give the stuff a chance and see what happens after a month or so. How are you doing? What do you notice so far in terms of anti-anxiety/antidepression effects? I was going to start Nardil, but decided to give SSRIs one more chance before doing so.
Chris
Posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:23:37
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 15:35:26
Well, done with the starter pack and took my first pill from a prescription bottle today.
Got over 12 hours' sleep last night - good to know I can catch up on sleep when I have to. (Previous night I was once again interrupted by loud noise in the morning, this time a vacuum cleaner by a cleaning person, so I was sleep deprived). So while getting to sleep isn't always easy, I generally can stay asleep unless rudely awakened.
Mood is quite good and tongkat ali and maca continue to do a super job at sexuality enhancement. I often have to stop what I'm doing and go "relieve the pressure" due to sexual thoughts and sensations - when was the last time I had to do that on celexa! So I am quite pleased overall.
Trying to lose weight will be...interesting.
Posted by Chris O on July 31, 2011, at 22:33:14
In reply to Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:23:37
Joe:
It's interesting to hear your experiences with this medication. As regarding the whole sexual issue thing, I've found, after 8 days on Viibryd (after being off Serzone for 4 months), that the anhedonia in relationship to sex has returned for me. In other words, it was starting to disappear but is now coming back. I guess I'll have to wait until I do a couple of weeks at 40mg to give a more experienced assessment.
Chris
Posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:50:33
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on July 31, 2011, at 22:33:14
Chris,
I'm not sure what you mean. You had sexual problems on Serzone? Or after going off it?
I tried Serzone myself back before it got pulled off the market here, and I seem to recall it actually being a sex enhancer.
Posted by Chris O on August 1, 2011, at 0:53:45
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » Chris O, posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:50:33
Joe:
Serzone a sex enhancer, eh? Wow. Maybe I'm just a freak, but I haven't found any of the SSRIs, or SNRIs, to be "sex enhancers." Since 2008, I've been on high doses of Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, and Serzone. All gave me that lack of interest in sex kind of feeling. I didn't get much, if any benefit, from those drugs, either, even at the highest recommended doses. Lexapro was no better in 2004-2005. I had luck with a Celexa-Wellbutrin combination in 2000-2001, but since then, I've been in the haze of my increasingly debilitating anxiety disorder. My hopes are low for Viibryd, but I'll stick with it for one or two months, just to give it a chance. It's good to know that you're benefiting from the drug, though. Gives me something to hope for.
Chris
Posted by bearfan on August 1, 2011, at 17:45:17
In reply to Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:23:37
I'm also on Day 30 of Viibryd. I'm sort of torn on this medication. I sleep better, which is good, but I still have some dizziness feelings and loose stools. I don't feel as productive, or social as on other medications I've tried. I don't seem to be as hungry like on Paxil, so my weight has stayed about the same. I'd thought I would of lost a little because of eating less, but not so. Libido hasn't been greatly improved, but functioning has. Unless it gets significantly better in the next few weeks, I haven't yet decided to remain on it.
Posted by markwell on August 1, 2011, at 18:02:13
In reply to Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by bearfan on August 1, 2011, at 17:45:17
Bearfan, has viibryd helped at all with anxiety and depression?
Mark
Posted by bearfan on August 2, 2011, at 3:55:16
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by markwell on August 1, 2011, at 18:02:13
It is helping with both anxiety and depression, but not at a level I would call 'satisfactory'. Part of the problem I have with it is that I feel quite dizzy/uncoordinated on it. It was bad enough that I had to switch the dosing to nighttime so it wouldn't adversely effect driving. It's different vs the traditional SSRIs in that I notice more emotional thought in decisions vs meds like Prozac that blunt them at a much greater level. This could be a good thing. A downside is that I don't feel particularly motivated to talk to people, enjoy things or even do chores around the house which is a sign that the depression is not adequately being treated. My depression symptoms have always been more in the mild/moderate range, and this is not a good sign because its probably not going to be strong enough for people that need more help. This may be especially true for those who already been on SSRIs, they started to lose their effectiveness, and looking for something newer or stronger to replace the older ones.
Posted by Chris O on August 2, 2011, at 7:20:23
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by bearfan on August 2, 2011, at 3:55:16
Bearfan:
I completely concur with your assessment of Viibryd. I've been on Viibryd for about 10 days now. I've upped the dose to 40mg already. I've also been on many SSRIs, at high doses, and they do not seem to work much for me anymore. While this medication is doing something, moderately, for my anxiety, I also feel ... blunted or something in terms of talking to people, which is one of my main issues. I still feel like avoiding social interaction on this med. I haven't had the dizziness or lack of coordination symptoms yet, but perhaps I just haven't taken the drug long enough at 40mg. I'm not certain I am going to stick with with Viibryd either because ... at this point in my life I really need something that keeps me "functional."
Chris
"A downside is that I don't feel particularly motivated to talk to people, enjoy things or even do chores around the house which is a sign that the depression is not adequately being treated. My depression symptoms have always been more in the mild/moderate range, and this is not a good sign because its probably not going to be strong enough for people that need more help. This may be especially true for those who already been on SSRIs, they started to lose their effectiveness, and looking for something newer or stronger to replace the older ones."
Posted by markwell on August 2, 2011, at 8:11:03
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » bearfan, posted by Chris O on August 2, 2011, at 7:20:23
So viibryd doesn't sound like the miracle drug. I have major depression and the problem is this is the only drug I haven't tried. Is it worth trying? Does it calm the mind at all?
Mark
Posted by Chris O on August 2, 2011, at 14:12:59
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by markwell on August 2, 2011, at 8:11:03
Mark:
Well, I'm only on Day 10, but already up to 40mg. It doesn't seem at all like "a miracle drug" to me. It seems similar to the other SSRIs I have taken in the last three years--Paxil, Prozac, and Luvox. There is some mild anti-anxiety effect so far for me, but I wouldn't say it calms my mind the way I need it to. It just doesn't feel strong enough, but I'll stick with it a bit longer to see if it improves. My hopes are not high right now.
Chris
Posted by bearfan on August 2, 2011, at 14:41:48
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » markwell, posted by Chris O on August 2, 2011, at 14:12:59
I agree with Mark's comments. For it to be a "Miracle Drug", it really has to offer significantly better efficacy, superior tolerability, broad range of indications/symptom control, and better safety margin. Neither of former has been proven. I view it as another 'me too' SSRI with a slightly different side-effect profile vs the existing therapies. Not to say you and your doctor shouldn't consider using it, but if your expecting 'life changing' results, you may be disappointed.
Posted by joe schmoe on August 2, 2011, at 23:38:49
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by bearfan on August 2, 2011, at 14:41:48
I'm a little puzzled by this talk of miracle drugs, skipping the prescribed dosage taper, and evaluating an antidepressant after only ten days.
Before evaluating an antidepressant I would follow the manufacturer's recommendations for dosage (unless side effects became intolerable) and give it at least month, or two months.
To me Viibryd was supposed to be an ssri antidepressant with minimal sexual or weight gain effects. No more and no less. If you never got any good effect from ssris, then Viibryd was probably nothing to get excited about.
SSRIs do work for me for dysthymia and atypical depression. I take clonazepam for social anxiety. What I wanted from Viibryd was something like celexa but without the sexual numbing or the fatness. So far the sexual numbing seems to be absent, so I am quite happy with it. I wish my appetite was lower, but you can't have everything - and maybe that will improve over time.
Posted by SLS on August 3, 2011, at 6:47:21
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on August 2, 2011, at 23:38:49
> I'm a little puzzled by this talk of miracle drugs,
Me too. No one drug heals all. However, for the one person that a specific drug does heal, it is a miracle drug.
> skipping the prescribed dosage taper,
Desperation?
> and evaluating an antidepressant after only ten days.
This frustrates me to no end when I see people draw a conclusion about the effectiveness of a drug before three weeks passes.
> Before evaluating an antidepressant I would follow the manufacturer's recommendations for dosage (unless side effects became intolerable) and give it at least month, or two months.
I don't know. I think the experience of multiple clinicians over time can yield new ways to use old drugs.
> To me Viibryd was supposed to be an ssri antidepressant
Not really. It was meant to be different. In addition to serotonin reuptake inhibition, Viibryd is a 5-HT1a partial agonist. I'm not sure, but I think the serotonin reuptake inhibition of Viibryd is less robust than the SSRIs.
> with minimal sexual or weight gain effects.
This is due to the 5-HT1a receptor partial agonism.
> No more and no less. If you never got any good effect from ssris, then Viibryd was probably nothing to get excited about.
Possibly, but clinical data on new drugs often supercedes theory.
> SSRIs do work for me for dysthymia and atypical depression. I take clonazepam for social anxiety. What I wanted from Viibryd was something like celexa but without the sexual numbing or the fatness. So far the sexual numbing seems to be absent, so I am quite happy with it. I wish my appetite was lower, but you can't have everything - and maybe that will improve over time.
I wish you luck. I hope you experience a clinical response greater than what your theory would predict.
- Scott
Posted by Chris O on August 3, 2011, at 8:26:39
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on August 2, 2011, at 23:38:49
Joe:
Chris here. I'm the guy who's evaluating Viibryd after 10 days. Perhaps normally, I wouldn't do that (evaluate a drug so quickly). I've come to this board on and off for over ten years, though not as often as others, perhaps. When I saw your post (which started evaluating Viibryd after Day 1, I think), I just decided to share my experience with the drug as well. I thought it would be helpful as an add-on to this thread, and I wanted to interact with someone who was also taking the drug. No more, no less. Even though you and Scott are "puzzled," I'd like to continue to share here. In terms of skipping the prescribed dosing, I did jump up to 40mg a few days before I was supposed to (Yes, I guess I'm "desperate." I'll own that.) But I've been through the SSRI drill enough to get a feeling of how these drugs affect my body/brain. Why another SSRI if the ones I've tried in the past have been unsuccessful? My next stop is Nardil or a tricyclic, and I'd just prefer to have something work with fewer side effects than one of those drugs. That's my story.
Chris
Posted by bearfan on August 3, 2011, at 13:28:02
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on August 3, 2011, at 8:26:39
Who was the one who only tried it for 10 days? I've taken it for 32 and followed the titration schedule
Posted by Chris O on August 3, 2011, at 18:48:10
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by bearfan on August 3, 2011, at 13:28:02
Bearfan:
It's me, Chris. I'm the one who has taken it for ten days.
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