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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 29 to 53 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by dragonblack on July 27, 2011, at 19:13:31
In reply to Re: Giving up on Parnate: what's next before ECT?, posted by utopizen on July 26, 2011, at 18:49:07
> what's wrong with ECT?
>
> I know folks who've done it, and it's changed their lives for the better... and far fewer side effects than Parnate.
>
> All the cheese you can eat, too. Honestly, what's the hesitation?Well, I'm not in a position to argue the merits of ECT, as I've never had it. However, I have significantly impaired memory, which I believe to be the result of hippocampal atrophy stemming from repeated depressive episodes, and the main drawback to ECT seems to be memory loss. Someone close to me who has had ECT is highly against me going this route. Also, I presume that you can't just ask for it but rather I would have to "qualify" for it, and a person like myself, who is not currently suicidal or experiencing psychosis, may need to have demonstrated that a wide range of medications don't work. That's just my guess, though, I haven't pursued it in order to find out what it would take to get it. I do realize that it boasts success rates that nothing else out there can compare to (I think, forgive me if I'm shortchanging some other treatment).
Posted by dragonblack on July 27, 2011, at 19:18:52
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties » dragonblack, posted by floatingbridge on July 26, 2011, at 12:36:36
> Hey DB,
>
> Sorry for all the constraints you havebto deal with regarding medications :-/
>
> Abilify changed it's effect as the dose went up. What's that phrase folks use? Sweet spot? My doc pushed the dose up and up past efficacy.....Thanks, FB, it is a very frustrating process. Hopefully it will make remission all the sweeter, if I ever learn what that word means in any personal sense. Abilify's "Goldilocks" quality, changing it's dopaminergic action depending on the endogenous situation, as dosage is increased, is what attracted me to it, and now they are calling it a "dopamine system stabilizer" for this reason. I'm hoping to reach that sweet spot before I get to an AP-type dosage. I've read that at 10 mg and up it's essentially working as an AP, but I guess I'll have to see how it changes for me. How high did you go, and where do you think the sweet spot was, if you passed it?
Posted by floatingbridge on July 27, 2011, at 21:34:37
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by dragonblack on July 27, 2011, at 19:18:52
>
> Thanks, FB, it is a very frustrating process. Hopefully it will make remission all the sweeter, if I ever learn what that word means in any personal sense. Abilify's "Goldilocks" quality, changing it's dopaminergic action depending on the endogenous situation, as dosage is increased, is what attracted me to it, and now they are calling it a "dopamine system stabilizer" for this reason. I'm hoping to reach that sweet spot before I get to an AP-type dosage. I've read that
at 10 mg and up it's essentially working as an AP, but I
guess I'll have to see how it changes for me. How high did you go, and where do you think the sweet spot was, if you
passed it?
Hi DB, since you asked, can I skip all the disclaimers about
not endorsing, encouraging, or attempting to prescribe?Started at 2 or 2.5mg. Emotionally bracing. After about three-four months doc says 5mg. I feel worse and then the big rush to 10mg. That was a disaster. Interesting you say that at 10mg it theoretically becomes a full-on AP.
In retrospect, it was never a good med for me. But it's effect at the low dose was interesting and, I suppose, useful. I think it's a potent little pill. Plus the starter color was the prettiest. I am so into aesthetics it's silly.
I am wishing you a sweet remission.
Posted by dragonblack on July 28, 2011, at 19:21:04
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties » dragonblack, posted by floatingbridge on July 27, 2011, at 21:34:37
> Hi DB, since you asked, can I skip all the disclaimers about
> not endorsing, encouraging, or attempting to prescribe?
>
> Started at 2 or 2.5mg. Emotionally bracing. After about three-four months doc says 5mg. I feel worse and then the big rush to 10mg. That was a disaster. Interesting you say that at 10mg it theoretically becomes a full-on AP.
>
> In retrospect, it was never a good med for me. But it's effect at the low dose was interesting and, I suppose, useful. I think it's a potent little pill. Plus the starter color was the prettiest. I am so into aesthetics it's silly.
>
> I am wishing you a sweet remission.In the future, please write out all the disclaimers : )
At 2 mg I find it somewhat helpful, though I'm starting to run into sleep issues. I'm hoping to go up to 5 mg tomorrow so hopefully I won't share your negative experience. I also like the look of the pills, they look different than anything I've ever taken. Not sure what to call that color - I'm thinking "Sun-dried Turquoise." Can't wait to see what the 5's look like lol.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 28, 2011, at 20:22:34
In reply to Pretty little pills, posted by dragonblack on July 28, 2011, at 19:21:04
Subjectively speaking, the subsequent color was a disappointment.....
Hey, good luck!
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 28, 2011, at 20:46:34
In reply to Re: Giving up on Parnate: what's next before ECT?, posted by dragonblack on July 27, 2011, at 19:13:31
Bileteral ECT did nothing for my depression, but it did blow holes in my memory. It took about six weeks before I started remembering things. I'm not talking about forgetting one major event. I'm talking about forgetting how to drive from my home to work, forgetting my neighbors names and how I knew them, forgetting almost everything that happened during the ECT treatments. Furthermore, talk about side effects. Parnate gives me insomnia, which I can control with other meds, and gave me hypotension which went away. ECT left me a complete and utter basket case for 24 hours after treatment, with a headache, nausea, not knowing where I was.
Bilateral ECT has to be done inpatient. All the friends in the world (and I have a lot of friends) aren't going to be able to take you home and stay all day with you until you know where you are.
I know some people swear by ECT, but I have had both unilateral (which can be done outpatient) and bilateral (which must be done inpatient) treatments and had no change in mood whatsoever.
Not to talk you out of it. If parnate isn't helping, ECT is something to try, but it's no walk in the park.
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 28, 2011, at 20:49:30
In reply to Pretty little pills, posted by dragonblack on July 28, 2011, at 19:21:04
10mg abilify was magic for me. But it made me gain weight rapidly. Apparently, abilify isn't notorious for this. Some people benefit but don't gain weight.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 28, 2011, at 20:57:02
In reply to Re: Pretty little pills, posted by emmanuel98 on July 28, 2011, at 20:49:30
> 10mg abilify was magic for me. But it made me gain weight rapidly. Apparently, abilify isn't notorious for this. Some people benefit but don't gain weight.
DB, once again, good luck. I think positive reports like emmanuel's on abilify are valuable supportive optimism.
Posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2011, at 7:50:31
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties » dragonblack, posted by floatingbridge on July 27, 2011, at 21:34:37
It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
Morgan
Posted by floatingbridge on July 29, 2011, at 9:48:03
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2011, at 7:50:31
Excellent advice, methinks. Do 'they' make a 3mg dose?
(And if so, why the rush in my own case to go up so fast. Oh, grrrrr.)
Morgan, I didn't knew you had been abilified..... I recall you mentioning zyprexa....
> It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
>
> I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
>
> Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
>
> Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2011, at 13:56:30
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on July 29, 2011, at 9:48:03
> Excellent advice, methinks. Do 'they' make a 3mg dose?
>
> (And if so, why the rush in my own case to go up so fast. Oh, grrrrr.)
>
> Morgan, I didn't knew you had been abilified..... I recall you mentioning zyprexa....
>
>
>
> > It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
> >
> > I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
> >
> > Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
> >
> > Morgan
>
>Yep FB, been Abilified. I can't say that I gave it a good shot. I took one dose and that was enough for me to stay away. It was a fragile and very unstable time for me, so this could have played a role in the sensitive reaction I had to such a low dose of the stuff. Out of all the AP's, I admit a 2 to 3 mg dose of Abilify has been the one that has intrigued me the most. Ya know, people talk about being relieved of depression but too hyped up and numb on some SSRIs, but for me, I think I might have that problem with Abilify. It's soooo powerful. 60 mg of Cymbalta didn't touch what one tiny dose of Abilify did.
And again I have read that 2 or 3 mg of Abilify as an antidepressant adjunct may be more effective than 5 mg, where a little too much dopamine attenuation starts to take place. Sort of like so many people that are trying really low doses of SSRIs now and doing much better(12.5 and 25 mg Zoloft/2.5 to 5 mg Lexapro).
Morgan
Posted by Phillipa on July 29, 2011, at 21:23:53
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2011, at 13:56:30
Morgan it's that powerful a med? Took 60mg of cymbalts once. But 12.5 of seroquel my head fell in my lap and was asleep. Woke easily though. Phillipa
Posted by dragonblack on July 31, 2011, at 3:28:50
In reply to Re: Giving up on Parnate: what's next before ECT?, posted by emmanuel98 on July 28, 2011, at 20:46:34
> Bileteral ECT did nothing for my depression, but it did blow holes in my memory. It took about six weeks before I started remembering things. I'm not talking about forgetting one major event. I'm talking about forgetting how to drive from my home to work, forgetting my neighbors names and how I knew them, forgetting almost everything that happened during the ECT treatments. Furthermore, talk about side effects. Parnate gives me insomnia, which I can control with other meds, and gave me hypotension which went away. ECT left me a complete and utter basket case for 24 hours after treatment, with a headache, nausea, not knowing where I was.
>
> Bilateral ECT has to be done inpatient. All the friends in the world (and I have a lot of friends) aren't going to be able to take you home and stay all day with you until you know where you are.
>
> I know some people swear by ECT, but I have had both unilateral (which can be done outpatient) and bilateral (which must be done inpatient) treatments and had no change in mood whatsoever.
>
> Not to talk you out of it. If parnate isn't helping, ECT is something to try, but it's no walk in the park.Thanks for posting your experience. I'm not anxious to try ECT, I'm pretty afraid of it, to be honest, but I am also pretty frustrated with going nowhere, feeling like I am watching myself slowly become treatment resistant, and just throwing years of my life into unsuccessful drug trials. I wonder how long I can do it before I opt for a more drastic intervention, if ECT can be called such. I feel like it's such a gamble, I have absolutely no way of predicting whether it will be worth it, unlike with drug trials, where I don't have that feeling of complete uncertainty. Anyway, it's still a year or more away for me, I think, so I'll cross that electric stream when I get to it.
Posted by dragonblack on July 31, 2011, at 3:30:58
In reply to Re: Pretty little pills, posted by emmanuel98 on July 28, 2011, at 20:49:30
> 10mg abilify was magic for me. But it made me gain weight rapidly. Apparently, abilify isn't notorious for this. Some people benefit but don't gain weight.
Did you go off due to the weight issue, or stick with it because it was working?
Posted by dragonblack on July 31, 2011, at 3:35:54
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2011, at 7:50:31
> It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
>
> I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
>
> Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
>
> MorganThis was my thought exactly, I'm actually taking some days at 2.5 mg first, then I think I am going to sit at 3 mg for a while. Even though it' only 3 mg, I can't help but view it as a 50% dose increase! Jumping to 5 seems to make little sense to me, especially when you hear over and over how strong so many people find 2 mg.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 31, 2011, at 11:11:38
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by dragonblack on July 31, 2011, at 3:35:54
> > It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
> >
> > I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
> >
> > Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
> > Morgan
>
> This was my thought exactly, I'm actually taking some days at 2.5 mg first, then I think I am going to sit at 3 mg for a while. Even though it' only 3 mg, I can't help but view it as a 50% dose increase! Jumping to 5 seems to make little sense to me, especially when you hear over and over how strong so many people find 2 mg.The jump from sun-dried turquoise to 5mg was a profound one for me.....
Routing (not rooting?) for you!
Posted by dragonblack on July 31, 2011, at 11:33:50
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by floatingbridge on July 31, 2011, at 11:11:38
> > > It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
> > >
> > > I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
> > >
> > > Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
> > > Morgan
> >
> > This was my thought exactly, I'm actually taking some days at 2.5 mg first, then I think I am going to sit at 3 mg for a while. Even though it' only 3 mg, I can't help but view it as a 50% dose increase! Jumping to 5 seems to make little sense to me, especially when you hear over and over how strong so many people find 2 mg.
>
>
>
> The jump from sun-dried turquoise to 5mg was a profound one for me.....
>
> Routing (not rooting?) for you!
>Thank you! You make a wonderful wireless router : )
I must admit, I like the 5 mg pills, though I'm still searching for a good name for that color. "Mudless Puddle?" Something tells me paint stores would have a hard time moving that. Maybe the 10 mg pills will be a deeper blue, something that will really make my eyes pop.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 31, 2011, at 12:25:35
In reply to Re: Abilified, and other semantic cruelties, posted by dragonblack on July 31, 2011, at 11:33:50
> > > > It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
> > > >
> > > > I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
> > > >
> > > > Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
> > > > Morgan
> > >
> > > This was my thought exactly, I'm actually taking some days at 2.5 mg first, then I think I am going to sit at 3 mg for
a while. Even though it' only 3 mg, I can't help but view it as a 50% dose increase! Jumping to 5 seems to make little sense to me, especially when you hear over and over how strong so many people find 2 mg.
> >
> >
> >
> > The jump from sun-dried turquoise to 5mg was a profound one for me.....
> >
> > Routing (not rooting?) for you!
> >
>
> Thank you! You make a wonderful wireless router : )
>
> I must admit, I like the 5 mg pills, though I'm still searching for a good name for that color. "Mudless Puddle?"
Something tells me paint stores would have a hard time moving that. Maybe the 10 mg pills will be a deeper blue, something that will really make my eyes pop.Well, prepare for disappointment in the color department :-/. Nothing beats the color of that first pill.
I could do a much better job of coloring pills. I really could.
Your posts give me a smile. How you manage that and depression at the same time?
Posted by dragonblack on August 1, 2011, at 2:51:43
In reply to Re: Abilified in full color » dragonblack, posted by floatingbridge on July 31, 2011, at 12:25:35
> > > > > It may be wise to just stick with around 3 mg Abilify for a few weeks to see if this is enough. Ask your doctor about this, you have two weeks to spare I'm sure, no need to rush into anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've read reports that 3 mg may be more effective as an AD than 5 mg. It really is a very powerful drug, far to powerful for me(1.5 mg sent me spinning). I believe it can be very effective for treating bad and chronic cases of depression.
> > > > >
> > > > > Though I'm not crazy about the use of AAP's for anything other than severe acute manic episodes and psychosis, I do think some cases of depression are exceptions. I really hope it helps you!
> > > > > Morgan
> > > >
> > > > This was my thought exactly, I'm actually taking some days at 2.5 mg first, then I think I am going to sit at 3 mg for
> a while. Even though it' only 3 mg, I can't help but view it as a 50% dose increase! Jumping to 5 seems to make little sense to me, especially when you hear over and over how strong so many people find 2 mg.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The jump from sun-dried turquoise to 5mg was a profound one for me.....
> > >
> > > Routing (not rooting?) for you!
> > >
> >
> > Thank you! You make a wonderful wireless router : )
> >
> > I must admit, I like the 5 mg pills, though I'm still searching for a good name for that color. "Mudless Puddle?"
> Something tells me paint stores would have a hard time moving that. Maybe the 10 mg pills will be a deeper blue, something that will really make my eyes pop.
>
> Well, prepare for disappointment in the color department :-/. Nothing beats the color of that first pill.
>
> I could do a much better job of coloring pills. I really could.
>
> Your posts give me a smile. How you manage that and depression at the same time?
>
>I'm not sure, but it seems to be a full time job.
It wasn't that long ago that I wasn't even able to get myself to read PB, let alone post, so the very fact that I'm here at all is a sign of progress to me. But it's like climbing a skyscraper to get back to normalcy, I feel like I just climbed 20 flights and I'm still closer to the bottom than the middle, even. Forget about the top.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 1, 2011, at 8:51:04
In reply to Re: Abilified in full color, posted by dragonblack on August 1, 2011, at 2:51:43
> > Your posts give me a smile. How you manage that and depression at the same time?
> >
> >
>
> I'm not sure, but it seems to be a full time job.
>
> It wasn't that long ago that I wasn't even able to get myself to read PB, let alone post, so the very fact that I'm here at all
is a sign of progress to me. But it's like climbing a skyscraper to get back to normalcy, I feel like I just climbed 20 flights and I'm still closer to the bottom than the middle, even. Forget about the top.Have you had the experience, usually at a health care provider''s office, of being asked verbally or having to write out the answer to " do you work? When was the last time you worked?".? I always hesitate. Can you write, oh yeah, all the time, hardly stop for breath?
Am I rooting or routing for you? Quietly cheering at the very least.
If I find an elevator, I'll let you know.
Posted by dsae3 on August 4, 2011, at 7:31:23
In reply to Re: Giving up on Parnate: what's next before ECT?, posted by bleauberry on July 27, 2011, at 16:15:54
Posted by dsae3 on August 4, 2011, at 7:34:57
In reply to Dear Blauberry - (nm) » bleauberry, posted by dsae3 on August 4, 2011, at 7:31:23
Dear Blauberry - Sorry for posting to this thread but I can not pm you directly as you disabled it. I have replied to a relatively old post of yours but I am not sure if you will read it. Can you go to the post :
http://group-study.org/babble/20110728/msgs/992721.html
Can you reply me?
Posted by dragonblack on August 4, 2011, at 16:48:41
In reply to Re: Abilified in full color » dragonblack, posted by floatingbridge on August 1, 2011, at 8:51:04
>
> > > Your posts give me a smile. How you manage that and depression at the same time?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I'm not sure, but it seems to be a full time job.
> >
> > It wasn't that long ago that I wasn't even able to get myself to read PB, let alone post, so the very fact that I'm here at all
> is a sign of progress to me. But it's like climbing a skyscraper to get back to normalcy, I feel like I just climbed 20 flights and I'm still closer to the bottom than the middle, even. Forget about the top.
>
> Have you had the experience, usually at a health care provider''s office, of being asked verbally or having to write out the answer to " do you work? When was the last time you worked?".? I always hesitate. Can you write, oh yeah, all the time, hardly stop for breath?
>
> Am I rooting or routing for you? Quietly cheering at the very least.
>
> If I find an elevator, I'll let you know.
>
>
>Yeah, I've been asked that a great deal. I'm always forced to ask, "Do you mean when was I last employed, or when was I last 'not broken'?"
An elevator would be great, or even an urban sherpa who gives piggy back rides would suffice. : )
Take care,
DB
Posted by floatingbridge on August 4, 2011, at 18:43:34
In reply to Re: Abilified in full color, posted by dragonblack on August 4, 2011, at 16:48:41
> Yeah, I've been asked that a great deal. I'm always forced to ask, "Do you mean when was I last employed, or when was I last 'not broken'?"
>
> An elevator would be great, or even an urban sherpa who gives piggy back rides would suffice. : )
>
> Take care,
>
> DB
>Just the other day I told my son I needed a Sherpa. He looked at me, then carried his own backpack. :-)
Posted by dragonblack on August 5, 2011, at 22:34:29
In reply to Re: Abilified in full color » dragonblack, posted by floatingbridge on August 4, 2011, at 18:43:34
> > Yeah, I've been asked that a great deal. I'm always forced to ask, "Do you mean when was I last employed, or when was I last 'not broken'?"
> >
> > An elevator would be great, or even an urban sherpa who gives piggy back rides would suffice. : )
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > DB
> >
>
> Just the other day I told my son I needed a Sherpa. He looked at me, then carried his own backpack. :-)
>
>
>
>: )
How old is your son?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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