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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by zonked on July 5, 2011, at 10:51:25
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:14:05
Wow! you're really ambitious... I'm looking forward to hearing more. I told my pharmacy I wanted my refill to be the same generic I got last fill (Gavis) but got Greenstone instead. Will use a different pharmacy next fill. =)
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 20:48:45
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating! » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 5, 2011, at 10:51:25
Ok the coating aint that easy! Maybe ill have to give the filled caps to a compounding pharmacy
Posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:52:11
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 20:48:45
Today, for a couple i felt a hint of "at ease" mood for 1-2 hours at a time. Maybe somethings coming on... I so sure hope so.
Posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:55:56
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:52:11
How much can i take without risking adverse effects?
Posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 1:43:48
In reply to how much trazodone is safe while on nardil?, posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:55:56
> How much can i take without risking adverse effects?
I'm not sure of the safe dosage. I used 100mg with 90mg of Nardil and it used to just knock me out. I didn't like the drugged feeling and would really have to shake off the hangover in the morning. I'm sure, at this dose, it blocks the histamine H1 receptor, among other actions. I am really sensitive to the sleep inducing affects of the histamine blocking medications. I've read that trazodone is prescribed in the 25mg to 75mg dosages for insomnia.
Be well,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
In reply to Re: how much trazodone is safe while on nardil?, posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 1:43:48
I just read an old thread of nardil disciple Ace. He said that for many who restart nardil it takes alot longer to kick in than the first time.
Can someone confirm this? Please make me feel hopeful again!
Zonked how was this for u?
Posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:17:20
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Ok i took it only 17 days. But i went up with the dosage agressively (why! how is this written -.- ), taking 75 and even 90mg for two days, sort of to beat the sh*t out of mao.
Then i gradually decreased again to 52.5..Well.. i just wish i had this huge relieving epiphany tomorrow, just like i did last time. Who can blame me?
Posted by zonked on July 7, 2011, at 20:01:29
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Lamdage, hang in there. My first Nardil remission I don't remember exactly but it seems like it worked within days. Don't remember the starting dose, and wasn't posting here then. This time, I was on 30 mg for maybe a week and a half, 45 for 5 days, 60 for 5 days, and 75 ever since. Within two to three days of going up to 60, I noticed it starting to work. Improvement have been gradual but consistent since then. So yep, it took me longer this time. Was well worth the wait and the benefits continue. I am perfectly happy staying at 75. :-)
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 2:41:59
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Ok i took it only 17 days. But i went up with the dosage agressively (why! how is this written -.- ), taking 75 and even 90mg for two days, sort of to beat the sh*t out of mao.
Then i gradually decreased again to 52.5..Well.. i just wish i had this huge relieving epiphany tomorrow, just like i did last time. Who can blame me?
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 3:18:34
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 2:41:59
Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
Posted by zonked on July 8, 2011, at 9:35:45
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 3:18:34
> Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
Hmm. I'm not exactly following you, do you mean to sleep better? I wash my bedding about every two weeks. When you say you had am epiphany do you mean Nardil has started working? You may wanna go up to 60 if you aren't starting to feel better soon, at least, that is what it took for me to begin to have symptoms start to go away. Good luck! -z
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:02:41
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer? » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 8, 2011, at 9:35:45
> > Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
>
> Hmm. I'm not exactly following you, do you mean to sleep better? I wash my bedding about every two weeks. When you say you had am epiphany do you mean Nardil has started working? You may wanna go up to 60 if you aren't starting to feel better soon, at least, that is what it took for me to begin to have symptoms start to go away. Good luck! -zDoh! This was for another fred lol. Sorry about that.
Yes, when the medication kicked in i had a very massive epiphany, kind of multiple epiphanies. I was in complete and utter denial before i took the drug.
The psychologist told me in therapy that i was very fortunate the medication had this effect on me. Her face literally lit up when i talked.God i want this to come back! These freakin idiots who weined me off of it and did all this sh*t to my head with the full range of sh*t meds. I was doing swell on 45 mg and it didnt look like that was going to stop.
I hope they didnt make me treatment resistant.
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:04:22
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:02:41
If they did make me treatment resistant to nardil im gonna get a steel pipe and bring this place TO THE GROUND
Posted by Lamdage on July 10, 2011, at 7:21:39
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:04:22
Im up to 67.5mg phenelzine!
If it kicks in to heavy (god please make it!), ill reduce it the next day.
Posted by Lamdage on July 11, 2011, at 10:58:01
In reply to Up to 67.5, posted by Lamdage on July 10, 2011, at 7:21:39
Ok my "lost excipient" formula so far is:
2 teaspoons of:
Kaolin
Gelatine
White wheat flour
Methocel
Calcium CarbonateThen:
Honey Powder (small teaspoon)
Potassium Carbonate (just a hint)
Bioperine (just a hint)
Carnauba wax (just a hint)
Magnesium Stearate (just a hint)Again like i said i mix this "lost ingredient formula" with nardil 1-2. 1/3 lost ingredients 2/3 nardil.
The coating with foodlac (food grade shellac-ethanol solution) works OK. Ive bought a nail-lac bottle and cleansed it thoroughly. This is where i put the shellac in and "paint" it on the capsules. I use a normal Capsule maker and put the capsules in there in a way so 2/3 of the capsules stick out. (you will figure out how to accomplish this).
Then i coat them carefully, let it dry for 24 hours and turn them 180 degrees and do the same again with the other end. I do this so that there are at least 2 films of shellac on each half. This means 2x coating the top and 2x coating the bottom. The top and bottom films are overlapping, this is important. After the 4 (or 2 if you will so) coatings, again i let it dry for 48 hours. This way the caps get nice and hard.
Whats also important is, that humidity is the enemy of enteric coating with shellac. This means excess air exposure is NOT good for the caps to dry. I put it in a carton and close it, only venting it once every 8 hours or so.Its a bit of a pain, for sure. Its kinda difficult and time consuming but once you get the swing of it its OK. I recommend getting "000" Pills and putting 45mg in each to make the effort worth it.
Id say that 2/3 of my caps reach the intestine intact or 90% intact. The remainder may have opened in advance BUT my formula is alot more alkaline than pfizers original and in this case the formula will not have been exposed to stomach acid for a very long time.I bought two very handy items and i recommend these to anyone trying to create their own interpretation of nardil :
A large 5 pound heavy granite mortar. Capable to crush like 10 pills at a time. (poor little nardil pills) :D
And a medium quality coffee grinder, capable of grinding espresso size particles.
Makes life alot easier.
I have alot of trouble figuring out about this "Acacia". Id like to have a CAS number or an accurate unmistakeable name.
There are lots of different products from Acacia Catechu. If i had to bet id say that the astringent action is why it was in nardil but i could be very wrong. Ive read somewhere that some catechu products actually block absorption of alot of substances. Maybe someone can enlighten me.Besides that id like to bring a hint of alcohol into the formula, but im not really sure how to do this. I dont want the inside of the capsules to be wet and sticky cuz i want them to have a good "shelf life". Any ideas?
On a quest to make the ultimate nardil!
Ld
Posted by zonked on July 11, 2011, at 15:36:34
In reply to Excipients/ Make your own nardil, posted by Lamdage on July 11, 2011, at 10:58:01
Very ambitious!! I hope you start to feel better soon... I'm rooting for ya. -z
Posted by hopefullynow on July 12, 2011, at 7:15:27
In reply to Re: Excipients/ Make your own nardil » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 11, 2011, at 15:36:34
> I'm rooting for ya. -z
Mee too !!!The kind of people like you are the winners.
Those who take their fate (cautious) in their hands !!!
Posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:33:49
In reply to Re: Excipients/ Make your own nardil, posted by hopefullynow on July 12, 2011, at 7:15:27
I think its doing something..
its some feeling to the head.. light pressure, a hint of tingling.. feel a little drugged. Maybe 2-3 shots type of drugged.
Is that good?
Posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:42:10
In reply to I feel different, posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:33:49
Its not a pleasant feeling but not too unpleasant either. No insomnia, at all.
Posted by jedi on July 14, 2011, at 11:37:29
In reply to I feel different, posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:33:49
> I think its doing something..
>
> its some feeling to the head.. light pressure, a hint of tingling.. feel a little drugged. Maybe 2-3 shots type of drugged.
>
> Is that good?Lamdage,
Not sure if it is good or not. But I got that tingly sensation in the scalp when Nardil first kicked in for me. I assumed it was part of the hypomania I experienced. But you say no insomnia? I would say that is unusual when Nardil kicks in, but we are all different. If you can get the benefits without the insomnia, that's great.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 15, 2011, at 4:54:16
In reply to Re: I feel different » Lamdage, posted by jedi on July 14, 2011, at 11:37:29
Pupils are growing.. somethings going on! xD
Man i remember back then people even commented on how my voice got more grounded and stable. Simply put more "alpha". How cool is that!? Lets hope it will have the same awesome effects.
Maybe my brain needs some time to recover from all this SSRI and antipsychotic garbage to respond to nardil properly. I remember in the hospital they put risperdal into my system after i told them how my parents abused me.. and then they saw me read a piece of the bible. That was sufficient to put me on a strong antipsychotic, risperdal, the next day. Its a crime sort of.
> > I think its doing something..
> >
> > its some feeling to the head.. light pressure, a hint of tingling.. feel a little drugged. Maybe 2-3 shots type of drugged.
> >
> > Is that good?
>
> Lamdage,
> Not sure if it is good or not. But I got that tingly sensation in the scalp when Nardil first kicked in for me. I assumed it was part of the hypomania I experienced. But you say no insomnia? I would say that is unusual when Nardil kicks in, but we are all different. If you can get the benefits without the insomnia, that's great.
> Good Luck,
> Jedi
>
Posted by Lamdage on July 18, 2011, at 12:31:43
In reply to Pupils grow!, posted by Lamdage on July 15, 2011, at 4:54:16
Its kicking in.. I feel VERY drugged though and i fall asleep during the day often.
Sometimes trouble to focus my eyesight on a point and with balance a little bit.I have to confess that i took humongous amounts of Phenelzine these last days.. I could not bring up the patience to wait anylonger.
Will move to a more reasonable dosage now.
Posted by zonked on July 18, 2011, at 13:40:47
In reply to Its kicking in, posted by Lamdage on July 18, 2011, at 12:31:43
Yay! I am glad for you man.:) I will be asking to go up to 90 my next appointment. Also I have found a pharmacy that will carry the Gavis generic for me (no more worrying about Pfizer/Greenstone sh*t Nardil) although others haven't reported a problem. What did it take for you to start responding? I just hope you can continue to get your Nardil without train rides to other countries lol! Keep us posted! You earned this man, I applaud you for being so proactive about your depression.
Posted by Lamdage on July 18, 2011, at 14:20:10
In reply to Re: Its kicking in » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 18, 2011, at 13:40:47
> Yay! I am glad for you man.:) I will be asking to go up to 90 my next appointment. Also I have found a pharmacy that will carry the Gavis generic for me (no more worrying about Pfizer/Greenstone sh*t Nardil) although others haven't reported a problem. What did it take for you to start responding? I just hope you can continue to get your Nardil without train rides to other countries lol! Keep us posted! You earned this man, I applaud you for being so proactive about your depression.
Thanks man;)
Oh man the last 2-3 days must have been in the 200 - 250 range. I really wanted to destroy that MAO! And some carelessness in there, too, i got scared it wont kick in anymore and lost patience( + a piece of my mind i guess;)). I swear i would have destroyed that hospital place if they had f*ck*d up my nardil responsivity.
I hope i wont have to take more than 60mg in the long haul.Is gavis nardil supposed to me consistent with potency or why do you strive to acquire it?
Posted by zonked on July 18, 2011, at 17:20:35
In reply to Re: Its kicking in, posted by Lamdage on July 18, 2011, at 14:20:10
> > Yay! I am glad for you man.:) I will be asking to go up to 90 my next appointment. Also I have found a pharmacy that will carry the Gavis generic for me (no more worrying about Pfizer/Greenstone sh*t Nardil) although others haven't reported a problem. What did it take for you to start responding? I just hope you can continue to get your Nardil without train rides to other countries lol! Keep us posted! You earned this man, I applaud you for being so proactive about your depression.
>
> Thanks man;)
>
> Oh man the last 2-3 days must have been in the 200 - 250 range. I really wanted to destroy that MAO! And some carelessness in there, too, i got scared it wont kick in anymore and lost patience( + a piece of my mind i guess;)).I don't blame you!! Wish I had the luxury of doing that; I have to go by what my insurance company will pay for (which doesn't allow for such experimentation; I'd need a surplus of Nardil to do that.)
>
I swear i would have destroyed that hospital place if they had f*ck*d up my nardil responsivity.
>
I understand. I've read your posts about the risperdal, etc. Psych hospitals love to put people on antipsychotics (Christ_Empowered pointed this out recently) regardless of complaint; luckily my one AAP experience was enough that when I've been in the hospital I have always refused them.
> Is gavis nardil supposed to me consistent with potency or why do you strive to acquire it?Ah, yes. It's a new generic available only in the US (new as of 2011), and it's what I started on this time. See:
http://dr-bob.org/babble/20110630/msgs/990818.html
It's what I started on, and started to respond to. I noticed a backslide a little bit after I'd mostly run out of the Gavis Nardil and started the Pfizer/Greenstone (the PD 270 ones).. the last two days, I dumped out the remainder of the pills and have the few Gavis pills I had left (no more left!) and surprise, felt better! Could be all in my head, but at least my refill this week WILL be Gavis.
There was some belief on another forum that croscarmellose sodium (an excipient present in Pfizer/Greenstone Nardil but not Gavis) might result in reduced efficacy or absorption or something.
The prescribing information for Gavis phenelzine sulfate, complete with inactive ingredients, is here:
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=40483372-448f-4284-976c-8462ef256661
If anyone in the US is reading this, Rite-Aid was happy to order the Gavis for me. CVS promised me at my last refill that they would, but produced a mixture of Gavis and Greenstone (Pfizer) instead.
Nardil responders unite! :D
-z
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