![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 88 to 112 of 130. Go back in thread:
Posted by jedi on July 4, 2011, at 11:13:57
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 9:43:06
> Im not chasing the euphoria, especially i dont increase the dosage to achieve this. I just wonder how i know if phenelzine kicks in.
> The insomnia will is a pretty safe indicator i guess?Hey Lam,
I sure wasn't saying that you were chasing the high. There have just been other posters on this board, over the years, that have mistaken the hypomania/euphoria sometimes induced by phenelzine as the only antidepressant response. When this euphoria went away, they would report that the medication had pooped out. As you know, the hypomania is a side effect, not the true antidepressant response. Damn, it felt good though, after being depressed for so long! My head would tingle, and I would get just a giddy feeling. Just want to warn everyone that goes through this, be very careful with major life changes and financial decisions during this period.Hey Lam, I kind of wrote a small book on this. I've decided I am going to copy it into another thread on hypomania. I really think it is that important that people in this state get the information.
I so hope you recapture the the phenelzine antidepressant response. When it hits, it can be as sudden as throwing a light switch. One day my thinking was completely jumbled and I had no hope at all. The next day, the answers were very clear. I have never experienced anything like this before or since.
Good Luck and be well,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 16:58:11
In reply to Re: phenelzine » Lamdage, posted by jedi on July 4, 2011, at 11:13:57
Me neither,
Nardil has launched me way out of depression in a matter of 2 days lol.
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:07:50
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 16:58:11
Dear fellow nardil disciples,
i just did 4 pills of enteric coated nardil with added ingredients kaolin and methocel. I was able to attain a product called "food shellac spray".
Namely exactly this product: "ruth food shellac": http://www.scff.com/shop/product.php?productid=25218
You can order it in the states!!
Who invented it?? The swiss! lolIts really not hard at all, even quite fun. I bought a pill crusher, this type: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/10800845/2/istockphoto_10800845-pill-crusher.jpg
If you store your nardil dry (you should), it goes to a non sticky powder form instantly.I have found that 1 crushed Pfizer Nardil Pill equals about 2/3 of an empty capsule size "0". So all you have to do is get your ingredients
(can someone post a list of the ones that are missing in the new nardil please?)
, mix them nicely and then mix them with crushed nardil.
You can approach the accurate amount of the missing 1/3 in these "0" capsules step by step. With practice comes skill.
If you want to do a 50/50 mix nardil/lost ingredients youd have to purchase "00" pills.As for mixing, a high quality coffee grinder is best i believe. When i can afford it, i will get one.
But if you are able to attain all the "lost" ingredients in fine powder form you can do it way easier. Just mix it manually, im sure you are creative enough to figure out a good way. I just had a hard time finding powdered methocel, so i bought veggy caps..For the coating process with spray, I think the coolest solution would be a flat top with little "sinkholes" where you can put the pills on. Important is that more than 50% of the pill are exposed to air, but they should be fixed somehow in order to be able spray the shellac on nicely. Maybe i will build something in the future. It can be done easily with soft wood and whittle tools.
The pills should be turned by 180 degrees and sprayed from the other side. For a total of 2-3 layers.
When i refined my technique i will post more detailed instructions! Maybe even pictures. This is an awesome hobby! :D
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:14:05
In reply to Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:07:50
btw: never again pay too much for too expensive enteric coated whatever.
Posted by zonked on July 5, 2011, at 10:51:25
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:14:05
Wow! you're really ambitious... I'm looking forward to hearing more. I told my pharmacy I wanted my refill to be the same generic I got last fill (Gavis) but got Greenstone instead. Will use a different pharmacy next fill. =)
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 20:48:45
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating! » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 5, 2011, at 10:51:25
Ok the coating aint that easy! Maybe ill have to give the filled caps to a compounding pharmacy
Posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:52:11
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 20:48:45
Today, for a couple i felt a hint of "at ease" mood for 1-2 hours at a time. Maybe somethings coming on... I so sure hope so.
Posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:55:56
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:52:11
How much can i take without risking adverse effects?
Posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 1:43:48
In reply to how much trazodone is safe while on nardil?, posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:55:56
> How much can i take without risking adverse effects?
I'm not sure of the safe dosage. I used 100mg with 90mg of Nardil and it used to just knock me out. I didn't like the drugged feeling and would really have to shake off the hangover in the morning. I'm sure, at this dose, it blocks the histamine H1 receptor, among other actions. I am really sensitive to the sleep inducing affects of the histamine blocking medications. I've read that trazodone is prescribed in the 25mg to 75mg dosages for insomnia.
Be well,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
In reply to Re: how much trazodone is safe while on nardil?, posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 1:43:48
I just read an old thread of nardil disciple Ace. He said that for many who restart nardil it takes alot longer to kick in than the first time.
Can someone confirm this? Please make me feel hopeful again!
Zonked how was this for u?
Posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:17:20
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Ok i took it only 17 days. But i went up with the dosage agressively (why! how is this written -.- ), taking 75 and even 90mg for two days, sort of to beat the sh*t out of mao.
Then i gradually decreased again to 52.5..Well.. i just wish i had this huge relieving epiphany tomorrow, just like i did last time. Who can blame me?
Posted by zonked on July 7, 2011, at 20:01:29
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Lamdage, hang in there. My first Nardil remission I don't remember exactly but it seems like it worked within days. Don't remember the starting dose, and wasn't posting here then. This time, I was on 30 mg for maybe a week and a half, 45 for 5 days, 60 for 5 days, and 75 ever since. Within two to three days of going up to 60, I noticed it starting to work. Improvement have been gradual but consistent since then. So yep, it took me longer this time. Was well worth the wait and the benefits continue. I am perfectly happy staying at 75. :-)
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 2:41:59
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Ok i took it only 17 days. But i went up with the dosage agressively (why! how is this written -.- ), taking 75 and even 90mg for two days, sort of to beat the sh*t out of mao.
Then i gradually decreased again to 52.5..Well.. i just wish i had this huge relieving epiphany tomorrow, just like i did last time. Who can blame me?
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 3:18:34
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 2:41:59
Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
Posted by zonked on July 8, 2011, at 9:35:45
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 3:18:34
> Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
Hmm. I'm not exactly following you, do you mean to sleep better? I wash my bedding about every two weeks. When you say you had am epiphany do you mean Nardil has started working? You may wanna go up to 60 if you aren't starting to feel better soon, at least, that is what it took for me to begin to have symptoms start to go away. Good luck! -z
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:02:41
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer? » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 8, 2011, at 9:35:45
> > Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
>
> Hmm. I'm not exactly following you, do you mean to sleep better? I wash my bedding about every two weeks. When you say you had am epiphany do you mean Nardil has started working? You may wanna go up to 60 if you aren't starting to feel better soon, at least, that is what it took for me to begin to have symptoms start to go away. Good luck! -zDoh! This was for another fred lol. Sorry about that.
Yes, when the medication kicked in i had a very massive epiphany, kind of multiple epiphanies. I was in complete and utter denial before i took the drug.
The psychologist told me in therapy that i was very fortunate the medication had this effect on me. Her face literally lit up when i talked.God i want this to come back! These freakin idiots who weined me off of it and did all this sh*t to my head with the full range of sh*t meds. I was doing swell on 45 mg and it didnt look like that was going to stop.
I hope they didnt make me treatment resistant.
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:04:22
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:02:41
If they did make me treatment resistant to nardil im gonna get a steel pipe and bring this place TO THE GROUND
Posted by Lamdage on July 10, 2011, at 7:21:39
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:04:22
Im up to 67.5mg phenelzine!
If it kicks in to heavy (god please make it!), ill reduce it the next day.
Posted by Lamdage on July 11, 2011, at 10:58:01
In reply to Up to 67.5, posted by Lamdage on July 10, 2011, at 7:21:39
Ok my "lost excipient" formula so far is:
2 teaspoons of:
Kaolin
Gelatine
White wheat flour
Methocel
Calcium CarbonateThen:
Honey Powder (small teaspoon)
Potassium Carbonate (just a hint)
Bioperine (just a hint)
Carnauba wax (just a hint)
Magnesium Stearate (just a hint)Again like i said i mix this "lost ingredient formula" with nardil 1-2. 1/3 lost ingredients 2/3 nardil.
The coating with foodlac (food grade shellac-ethanol solution) works OK. Ive bought a nail-lac bottle and cleansed it thoroughly. This is where i put the shellac in and "paint" it on the capsules. I use a normal Capsule maker and put the capsules in there in a way so 2/3 of the capsules stick out. (you will figure out how to accomplish this).
Then i coat them carefully, let it dry for 24 hours and turn them 180 degrees and do the same again with the other end. I do this so that there are at least 2 films of shellac on each half. This means 2x coating the top and 2x coating the bottom. The top and bottom films are overlapping, this is important. After the 4 (or 2 if you will so) coatings, again i let it dry for 48 hours. This way the caps get nice and hard.
Whats also important is, that humidity is the enemy of enteric coating with shellac. This means excess air exposure is NOT good for the caps to dry. I put it in a carton and close it, only venting it once every 8 hours or so.Its a bit of a pain, for sure. Its kinda difficult and time consuming but once you get the swing of it its OK. I recommend getting "000" Pills and putting 45mg in each to make the effort worth it.
Id say that 2/3 of my caps reach the intestine intact or 90% intact. The remainder may have opened in advance BUT my formula is alot more alkaline than pfizers original and in this case the formula will not have been exposed to stomach acid for a very long time.I bought two very handy items and i recommend these to anyone trying to create their own interpretation of nardil :
A large 5 pound heavy granite mortar. Capable to crush like 10 pills at a time. (poor little nardil pills) :D
And a medium quality coffee grinder, capable of grinding espresso size particles.
Makes life alot easier.
I have alot of trouble figuring out about this "Acacia". Id like to have a CAS number or an accurate unmistakeable name.
There are lots of different products from Acacia Catechu. If i had to bet id say that the astringent action is why it was in nardil but i could be very wrong. Ive read somewhere that some catechu products actually block absorption of alot of substances. Maybe someone can enlighten me.Besides that id like to bring a hint of alcohol into the formula, but im not really sure how to do this. I dont want the inside of the capsules to be wet and sticky cuz i want them to have a good "shelf life". Any ideas?
On a quest to make the ultimate nardil!
Ld
Posted by zonked on July 11, 2011, at 15:36:34
In reply to Excipients/ Make your own nardil, posted by Lamdage on July 11, 2011, at 10:58:01
Very ambitious!! I hope you start to feel better soon... I'm rooting for ya. -z
Posted by hopefullynow on July 12, 2011, at 7:15:27
In reply to Re: Excipients/ Make your own nardil » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 11, 2011, at 15:36:34
> I'm rooting for ya. -z
Mee too !!!The kind of people like you are the winners.
Those who take their fate (cautious) in their hands !!!
Posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:33:49
In reply to Re: Excipients/ Make your own nardil, posted by hopefullynow on July 12, 2011, at 7:15:27
I think its doing something..
its some feeling to the head.. light pressure, a hint of tingling.. feel a little drugged. Maybe 2-3 shots type of drugged.
Is that good?
Posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:42:10
In reply to I feel different, posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:33:49
Its not a pleasant feeling but not too unpleasant either. No insomnia, at all.
Posted by jedi on July 14, 2011, at 11:37:29
In reply to I feel different, posted by Lamdage on July 14, 2011, at 7:33:49
> I think its doing something..
>
> its some feeling to the head.. light pressure, a hint of tingling.. feel a little drugged. Maybe 2-3 shots type of drugged.
>
> Is that good?Lamdage,
Not sure if it is good or not. But I got that tingly sensation in the scalp when Nardil first kicked in for me. I assumed it was part of the hypomania I experienced. But you say no insomnia? I would say that is unusual when Nardil kicks in, but we are all different. If you can get the benefits without the insomnia, that's great.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 15, 2011, at 4:54:16
In reply to Re: I feel different » Lamdage, posted by jedi on July 14, 2011, at 11:37:29
Pupils are growing.. somethings going on! xD
Man i remember back then people even commented on how my voice got more grounded and stable. Simply put more "alpha". How cool is that!? Lets hope it will have the same awesome effects.
Maybe my brain needs some time to recover from all this SSRI and antipsychotic garbage to respond to nardil properly. I remember in the hospital they put risperdal into my system after i told them how my parents abused me.. and then they saw me read a piece of the bible. That was sufficient to put me on a strong antipsychotic, risperdal, the next day. Its a crime sort of.
> > I think its doing something..
> >
> > its some feeling to the head.. light pressure, a hint of tingling.. feel a little drugged. Maybe 2-3 shots type of drugged.
> >
> > Is that good?
>
> Lamdage,
> Not sure if it is good or not. But I got that tingly sensation in the scalp when Nardil first kicked in for me. I assumed it was part of the hypomania I experienced. But you say no insomnia? I would say that is unusual when Nardil kicks in, but we are all different. If you can get the benefits without the insomnia, that's great.
> Good Luck,
> Jedi
>
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.