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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:19:24
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » morgan miller, posted by Huxley on July 7, 2011, at 4:56:08
Huxley, you misunderstood me, I did not say that you had mental illness because you were angry. Maybe I did not articulate things properly, I seem to be having issues with that lately.
Posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:13:18
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 4:37:29
Drug addicts create resentment by (among other things) taking great quantities of euphoric drugs, creating envy by access to unauthorised mental states.
It is a testament to people's hope and devotion that some psychiatric treatments are persisted with so long when they bear so little fruit.
Posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:18:45
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
>Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
>Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
>These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
Very interesting. I had not realised that it was so hard to get off.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 15:26:53
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:13:18
> Drug addicts create resentment by (among other things) taking great quantities of euphoric drugs, creating envy by access to unauthorised mental states.
>
> It is a testament to people's hope and devotion that some psychiatric treatments are persisted with so long when they bear so little fruit.
>
>
"In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" by Gabor Mate is a very good book that
addresses addiction in helpful terms.
The author is a very compassionate doctor in Vancouver BC.Huxley, I am very sorry you have health issues now, and that they were brought on by your treatment. I am very glad you are mentally sound now. Please, good luck.
Posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:47:48
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 15:26:53
I might highlight that.
"In the realm of hungry ghosts"
Looks interesting. I might get it.
It's a Buddhist idea, this hungry ghost thing, I think?
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 16:03:40
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:47:48
Yes. Wikipedia has an entry.
He believes the potential for addiction is an innate human quality that different people manage in different ways.
Hungry Ghosts are maybe from China. Folklore.
Posted by B2chica on July 7, 2011, at 16:23:05
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:18:45
i am actually able to stop from 10mg, with little side effects, and stop from 5 with none.
i think it really depends on each persons system and how it is effecting them.
i almost feel that zyprexa was almost...something my system needed since i have never seemed to have much problem with it other than weight gain. also that i am fortunate enough to get off with no problem. it seemed like it was a little more 'natural' (would that it were) to my system.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 16:33:32
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
Depends on the person.
I might be.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 17:27:36
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 16:33:32
I might try and get off of most of the medication I'm on.
I'm never really better anyway.
I'll go the radical acceptance path.
Why all the protest anyway?
Sh*t happens. Since I am never psychotic I can go with that.
Wish me luck!
Posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:01:30
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sigismund, posted by B2chica on July 7, 2011, at 16:23:05
> i am actually able to stop from 10mg, with little side effects, and stop from 5 with none.
> i think it really depends on each persons system and how it is effecting them.
> i almost feel that zyprexa was almost...something my system needed since i have never seemed to have much problem with it other than weight gain. also that i am fortunate enough to get off with no problem. it seemed like it was a little more 'natural' (would that it were) to my system.
>
>Early on in my treatment I stopped (after 6 months) I could stop with no major ill effects.
Then I tried again a year later and it was completly different. I have found plenty of others who are having the same problems. Plenty of people who can't sleep at all if they stop taking it..People who get 6 weeks of constant throwing up...
All sorts of strange reactions.
It is a hell of a drug.
Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:04:03
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 17:27:36
SG,
Please go very slowly if you go this way. The meds/no meds is difficult to navigate. You deserve gentle kindness. I always wish you luck. You know my experiences color this post. Consider how long your treatment has been and taper judiciously.
Warmly,
fb
> I might try and get off of most of the medication I'm on.
> I'm never really better anyway.
> I'll go the radical acceptance path.
> Why all the protest anyway?
> Sh*t happens. Since I am never psychotic I can go with that.
> Wish me luck!
Posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:06:21
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:19:24
> Huxley, you misunderstood me, I did not say that you had mental illness because you were angry. Maybe I did not articulate things properly, I seem to be having issues with that lately.
Sorry Morgan.
I am wrong to direct my anger at you. Infact I think I am wrong to direct it here in general at what seems like a bunch of good people just trying to get by and manage there conditions.
I always told people close to me when I was withdrawing that they should walk a mile in my shoes before they judged me.
Probably should apply the same wisdom to myself.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:08:04
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 17:27:36
> Sh*t happens. Since I am never psychotic I can go with that.
> Wish me luck!I have been having some scary rebound symptoms. Not psychotic. But pretty untenable. I am not saying not to; I am saying this stuff can bite back. Look at Huxley's thread. Keep a coolish head. Yeah?
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:10:32
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:04:03
I know it has to go very slowly for it to really happen. That has to be part of the decision. I wish meds were the answer. I'm not really interested in letting go of my Pdoc, but I think I do need to let go of most, if not all, of my meds.
Slowly, very slowly. Thanks fb. How are you?
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:23:29
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:10:32
> I know it has to go very slowly for it to really happen. That has to be part of the decision. I wish meds were the answer. I'm not really interested in letting go of my Pdoc, but I think I do need to let go of most, if not all, of my meds.
> Slowly, very slowly. Thanks fb. How are you?Well then, I am behind you :-) Retaining
your pdoc, if s/he will support your taper could be very valuable. If you have that kind of relationship. Just thinking
someone who has observed you and help you sort through any withdrawal
symptoms....if any :-)Just an additional 2¢.
(Me? I'm sorting through my own cold turkey rebound issues. Rough. Still here.)
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:48:57
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:23:29
I don't know what my Pdoc will think. I do know that pdocs tend to be reluctant about taking people off meds. I can understand that. I also know that I spent 25 or so years not on meds and I can do it again. The sadness and anxiety will probably always be there.
I've put a lot of work in though, and I'm better for it. I think I can manage it. It'll be a process, but I think it's important.
I am definitely not going the cold turkey route. I went cold turkey for a couple of days off effexor. It was awful.
Thanks fb. :-)
I hope you feel better every day.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 20:42:40
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:48:57
Not yet, but I did mean it
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 7, 2011, at 20:51:26
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:06:21
Well, having been an actual drug addict (addicted to opiates and alcohol), to me there is a huge difference between trying to find a psych med (which are not addictive in the sense of causing a high which the addict chases despite negative life consequences) that relieves depression or other psychiatric symptioms and drug addiction. I take parnate. Doesn't make me high. I don't crave it. I don't take higher and higher dosages to maintain an even keel. It has some side effects and apparently, if I try to go off it, I will have some withdrawal effects. This doesn't make me addicted to parnate, just dependent on it.
Posted by Bob on July 7, 2011, at 22:41:32
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:18:45
> >Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
>
> >Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
>
> >These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
>
> Very interesting. I had not realised that it was so hard to get off.
Oh yeah. I know exactly how this feels. It took me months to get off of Effexor back in the nineties and that was before my body was totally and completely wasted. I don't think I could even touch Effexor now. I have had some sort of discontinuation problem with almost every single psychoactive drug I've ever taken and I have never met anyone with difficulties as extreme as this.Bob
Posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2011, at 1:53:23
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:06:21
No worries huxley, I'm sure your a good person that only wants what we all want, to feel good and get back to living. I think it takes some guts and strength to say what you said, I have a ton of respect for it.
I really do hope you continue to improve and sooner than later feel more like you used to, and hopefully better at some point!
Be well and hang in there brotha.
Morgan
Posted by bleauberry on July 8, 2011, at 4:26:16
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
I can certainly relate to your story and have seen it happen multiple times.
"Drug addict" might not be the perfect description, because addiction requires a "craving", but I get your point for sure. I would say, maybe in general we become experts and expert guinea pigs on psych meds, we earn self taught masters degrees in psychiatry, but we don't even take class 101 on the other issues that cause depression, most of which cause the very same depression/anxiety we have all felt, but are not dealt with in the psychiatric circles.
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:15:44
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sigismund, posted by Bob on July 7, 2011, at 22:41:32
> > >Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
> >
> > >Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
> >
> > >These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
> >
> > Very interesting. I had not realised that it was so hard to get off.
>
>
> Oh yeah. I know exactly how this feels. It took me months to get off of Effexor back in the nineties and that was before my body was totally and completely wasted. I don't think I could even touch Effexor now. I have had some sort of discontinuation problem with almost every single psychoactive drug I've ever taken and I have never met anyone with difficulties as extreme as this.
>
> Bob
I feel somewhat guilty for having grown to tolerate the discontinuation of these drugs with relative ease. However, I developed a method of minimizing withdrawal symptoms through practice. I do remember the first time I tried to withdraw from Klonopin after a year of continuous exposure. The brain zaps were like lightening going off in my head. I swear I could even see the bolts.
- Scott
Posted by rculater on July 8, 2011, at 12:34:28
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by bleauberry on July 8, 2011, at 4:26:16
I agree.
I've always needed something.
From a child until my mid teens it was a comfort pillow.
Then in my mid teens it was nicotine and cigarettes.
In my late teens until my mid twenties it was recreational drugs.
Following this came alcohol.
When I gave up all the above I needed Psch meds
Now after 10+ years of the psych med merry go around, i,ve given up on them and started smoking cigarettes again..
Posted by mellow on July 8, 2011, at 14:34:05
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
You are right to be angry. I agree with every single item you listed as far as big pharma dressing this thing up to get as many people medicated as possible, but I choose to look at myself as an individual not as part of the masses or part of some conspiracy. I have to believe that my therapist and pdoc are in the industry to help me. They are both wonderful people despite the fact that they make money at the expense of people's suffering. They are at least trying to help.
In the 1960's my grandfather would destroy the family home. He would break furniture and terrify his wife and children. He would lock himself up drinking whiskey until the doctor would come drag him to the state hospital where he would be shocked repeatedly...back when they had no clue what they were doing with ECT. They wrote him off as a schizophrenic which he clearly was not.
Now some might say we are the stage with meds where they don't know what they hell they are doing and we being experimented on. If you read all the books like "Anatomy of an Epidemic" it is almost impossible not to make make that assumption and become very angry. But I have to believe that coming from the blood line that I do that I have had and will lead a better life than my grandfathers, my father and my uncle because of how far psychiatry has come.
The atypical anitpsychotics alone are an incredible advancement if you read some pyschopharmacology textbooks and realize how close they are getting to symptom reduction in the exact areas of the brain they are aiming for. I am a recovered alcoholic and drug addict myself and I can tell you that recreation drugs were my psych meds before I was taking psych meds. There was obviously some "medicating" going on before I even stepped into the mental health game.
If anything I think working with a good hearted doc in addition to having a strong spiritual life is a much better alternative to addiction rather than an addiction in of itself. Our lives on psych meds may not be ideal, but would they have been ideal anyhow? We obviously had problems in the first place or we wouldn't have sought help.
I wish you all the luck in the world Huxley. In fact I am jealous you have gotten so far in your taper. For the sake of my sanity I don't even have a time table for being med free anymore. If that miracle is going to happen it will happen in good time. Please let us know how you do.
mellow
Posted by joe schmoe on July 8, 2011, at 15:20:49
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Bob, posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:15:44
> I feel somewhat guilty for having grown to tolerate the discontinuation of these drugs with relative ease. However, I developed a method of minimizing withdrawal symptoms through practice. I do remember the first time I tried to withdraw from Klonopin after a year of continuous exposure. The brain zaps were like lightening going off in my head. I swear I could even see the bolts.
>
>
> - Scott
I am curious what this method is. I take klonopin and if I ever need to go off it, I may need to know!
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