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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 4:30:08
In reply to phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on June 25, 2011, at 5:05:30
This sh*t aint kickin in:(
Could it be that my archimedes batch of phenelzine is screwed because it hasnt been stored in the fridge for a couple days?
Posted by zonked on July 3, 2011, at 7:38:53
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 4:30:08
> This sh*t aint kickin in:(
> Could it be that my archimedes batch of phenelzine is screwed because it hasnt been stored in the fridge for a couple days?
>
>Give it more time. Last year I did a brief retrial of Nardil and stopped it because I expected it to kick in as quickly as it had before... oops. Took a little longer this time. Also see that you're only on 45 mg, it took a little bit at 60 for me to start really noticing things. I always wonder why people outside of north america are told to keep their nardil in the fridge... aren't the inactive ingredients mostly the same? I did this once but my tablets got wet... oops.
Posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 9:32:33
In reply to Re: phenelzine » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 3, 2011, at 7:38:53
> > This sh*t aint kickin in:(
> > Could it be that my archimedes batch of phenelzine is screwed because it hasnt been stored in the fridge for a couple days?
> >
> >
>
> Give it more time. Last year I did a brief retrial of Nardil and stopped it because I expected it to kick in as quickly as it had before... oops. Took a little longer this time. Also see that you're only on 45 mg, it took a little bit at 60 for me to start really noticing things. I always wonder why people outside of north america are told to keep their nardil in the fridge... aren't the inactive ingredients mostly the same? I did this once but my tablets got wet... oops.I agree. Why should get the ingredient turn "bad" in one compound while its ok in another. Maybe some corn starch will go smelly but who cares.. thats what i was thinking, but who knows?
Im taking 52.5 now.. i assume that it got a bit worse than last time. Thanks to various doctors i generally need higher dosages now. After each horrendously deep depressed phase without meds i needed a little more to get me back on my feet.
Posted by hopefullynow on July 3, 2011, at 15:43:01
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 9:32:33
Lam, I hope phenelzine will kick in and let's hope that it wasn't comprised from the online pharmacy to you.
Always looking forward of your trial
Posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 1:06:02
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by hopefullynow on July 3, 2011, at 15:43:01
i wonder if i will get the euphoria again this time..
Back then it didnt stop being euphoric for 3 months :D
Posted by jedi on July 4, 2011, at 1:35:19
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 1:06:02
> i wonder if i will get the euphoria again this time..
>
> Back then it didnt stop being euphoric for 3 months :DWhen phenelzine first kicked in for me in 1998 the hypomania lasted a long time. It felt so good after being depressed for so long. On multiple restarts of the medication, mostly after the reformulation in 2003, I've never recaptured this feeling. Of course, it is not the true antidepressant response of phenelzine.
Don't chase that one my friend,
Jedi
Posted by SLS on July 4, 2011, at 6:18:11
In reply to Re: phenelzine » Lamdage, posted by jedi on July 4, 2011, at 1:35:19
> > i wonder if i will get the euphoria again this time..
> >
> > Back then it didnt stop being euphoric for 3 months :D
>
> When phenelzine first kicked in for me in 1998 the hypomania lasted a long time. It felt so good after being depressed for so long. On multiple restarts of the medication, mostly after the reformulation in 2003I estimate that it will take two full years for me to approach remission using phenelzine. Of course, I have four other drugs on board, but it was the addition of phenelzine that began my "true" response to this drug. Some people on PB have reported having to wait four months before feeling any improvement. After the initial "high", it took me another four months to respond again, but with a more stable improvement. It is possible that the more severe and chronic depressions will take an extended period of time to improve. My improvement has been gradual, but sustained. Lithium seems to have helped prevent mood fluctuations.
When I assess my progress on a monthly basis, my improvement is gradual, but persistent. To assess one's depression on a daily or weekly basis is often counterproductive and can result in a premature abortion of the treatment trial.
> I've never recaptured this feeling.
Wait four months at 60-90 mg/day. You might be pleasantly surprised.
> Of course, it is not the true antidepressant response of phenelzine.
I agree. Waiting four months to respond to phenelzine might be necessary.
> Don't chase that one my friend,
I agree. In a desperate attempt to recapture the initial high, wild dosage fluctuations effected for many months could leave one treatment resistant.
Currently:phenelzine 90mg
nortriptyline 150mg
lamotrigine 200mg
aripiprazole 10mg
lithium 300mg
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 9:43:06
In reply to Re: phenelzine » jedi, posted by SLS on July 4, 2011, at 6:18:11
Im not chasing the euphoria, especially i dont increase the dosage to achieve this. I just wonder how i know if phenelzine kicks in.
The insomnia will is a pretty safe indicator i guess?
Posted by jedi on July 4, 2011, at 11:13:57
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 9:43:06
> Im not chasing the euphoria, especially i dont increase the dosage to achieve this. I just wonder how i know if phenelzine kicks in.
> The insomnia will is a pretty safe indicator i guess?Hey Lam,
I sure wasn't saying that you were chasing the high. There have just been other posters on this board, over the years, that have mistaken the hypomania/euphoria sometimes induced by phenelzine as the only antidepressant response. When this euphoria went away, they would report that the medication had pooped out. As you know, the hypomania is a side effect, not the true antidepressant response. Damn, it felt good though, after being depressed for so long! My head would tingle, and I would get just a giddy feeling. Just want to warn everyone that goes through this, be very careful with major life changes and financial decisions during this period.Hey Lam, I kind of wrote a small book on this. I've decided I am going to copy it into another thread on hypomania. I really think it is that important that people in this state get the information.
I so hope you recapture the the phenelzine antidepressant response. When it hits, it can be as sudden as throwing a light switch. One day my thinking was completely jumbled and I had no hope at all. The next day, the answers were very clear. I have never experienced anything like this before or since.
Good Luck and be well,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 16:58:11
In reply to Re: phenelzine » Lamdage, posted by jedi on July 4, 2011, at 11:13:57
Me neither,
Nardil has launched me way out of depression in a matter of 2 days lol.
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:07:50
In reply to Re: phenelzine, posted by Lamdage on July 4, 2011, at 16:58:11
Dear fellow nardil disciples,
i just did 4 pills of enteric coated nardil with added ingredients kaolin and methocel. I was able to attain a product called "food shellac spray".
Namely exactly this product: "ruth food shellac": http://www.scff.com/shop/product.php?productid=25218
You can order it in the states!!
Who invented it?? The swiss! lolIts really not hard at all, even quite fun. I bought a pill crusher, this type: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/10800845/2/istockphoto_10800845-pill-crusher.jpg
If you store your nardil dry (you should), it goes to a non sticky powder form instantly.I have found that 1 crushed Pfizer Nardil Pill equals about 2/3 of an empty capsule size "0". So all you have to do is get your ingredients
(can someone post a list of the ones that are missing in the new nardil please?)
, mix them nicely and then mix them with crushed nardil.
You can approach the accurate amount of the missing 1/3 in these "0" capsules step by step. With practice comes skill.
If you want to do a 50/50 mix nardil/lost ingredients youd have to purchase "00" pills.As for mixing, a high quality coffee grinder is best i believe. When i can afford it, i will get one.
But if you are able to attain all the "lost" ingredients in fine powder form you can do it way easier. Just mix it manually, im sure you are creative enough to figure out a good way. I just had a hard time finding powdered methocel, so i bought veggy caps..For the coating process with spray, I think the coolest solution would be a flat top with little "sinkholes" where you can put the pills on. Important is that more than 50% of the pill are exposed to air, but they should be fixed somehow in order to be able spray the shellac on nicely. Maybe i will build something in the future. It can be done easily with soft wood and whittle tools.
The pills should be turned by 180 degrees and sprayed from the other side. For a total of 2-3 layers.
When i refined my technique i will post more detailed instructions! Maybe even pictures. This is an awesome hobby! :D
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:14:05
In reply to Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:07:50
btw: never again pay too much for too expensive enteric coated whatever.
Posted by zonked on July 5, 2011, at 10:51:25
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 8:14:05
Wow! you're really ambitious... I'm looking forward to hearing more. I told my pharmacy I wanted my refill to be the same generic I got last fill (Gavis) but got Greenstone instead. Will use a different pharmacy next fill. =)
Posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 20:48:45
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating! » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 5, 2011, at 10:51:25
Ok the coating aint that easy! Maybe ill have to give the filled caps to a compounding pharmacy
Posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:52:11
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 5, 2011, at 20:48:45
Today, for a couple i felt a hint of "at ease" mood for 1-2 hours at a time. Maybe somethings coming on... I so sure hope so.
Posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:55:56
In reply to Re: Old Nardil reconstruction/enteric coating!, posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:52:11
How much can i take without risking adverse effects?
Posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 1:43:48
In reply to how much trazodone is safe while on nardil?, posted by Lamdage on July 6, 2011, at 16:55:56
> How much can i take without risking adverse effects?
I'm not sure of the safe dosage. I used 100mg with 90mg of Nardil and it used to just knock me out. I didn't like the drugged feeling and would really have to shake off the hangover in the morning. I'm sure, at this dose, it blocks the histamine H1 receptor, among other actions. I am really sensitive to the sleep inducing affects of the histamine blocking medications. I've read that trazodone is prescribed in the 25mg to 75mg dosages for insomnia.
Be well,
Jedi
Posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
In reply to Re: how much trazodone is safe while on nardil?, posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 1:43:48
I just read an old thread of nardil disciple Ace. He said that for many who restart nardil it takes alot longer to kick in than the first time.
Can someone confirm this? Please make me feel hopeful again!
Zonked how was this for u?
Posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:17:20
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Ok i took it only 17 days. But i went up with the dosage agressively (why! how is this written -.- ), taking 75 and even 90mg for two days, sort of to beat the sh*t out of mao.
Then i gradually decreased again to 52.5..Well.. i just wish i had this huge relieving epiphany tomorrow, just like i did last time. Who can blame me?
Posted by zonked on July 7, 2011, at 20:01:29
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Lamdage, hang in there. My first Nardil remission I don't remember exactly but it seems like it worked within days. Don't remember the starting dose, and wasn't posting here then. This time, I was on 30 mg for maybe a week and a half, 45 for 5 days, 60 for 5 days, and 75 ever since. Within two to three days of going up to 60, I noticed it starting to work. Improvement have been gradual but consistent since then. So yep, it took me longer this time. Was well worth the wait and the benefits continue. I am perfectly happy staying at 75. :-)
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 2:41:59
In reply to nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 7, 2011, at 19:02:51
Ok i took it only 17 days. But i went up with the dosage agressively (why! how is this written -.- ), taking 75 and even 90mg for two days, sort of to beat the sh*t out of mao.
Then i gradually decreased again to 52.5..Well.. i just wish i had this huge relieving epiphany tomorrow, just like i did last time. Who can blame me?
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 3:18:34
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 2:41:59
Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
Posted by zonked on July 8, 2011, at 9:35:45
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 3:18:34
> Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
Hmm. I'm not exactly following you, do you mean to sleep better? I wash my bedding about every two weeks. When you say you had am epiphany do you mean Nardil has started working? You may wanna go up to 60 if you aren't starting to feel better soon, at least, that is what it took for me to begin to have symptoms start to go away. Good luck! -z
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:02:41
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer? » Lamdage, posted by zonked on July 8, 2011, at 9:35:45
> > Then again if you use your refular comforter and pillow that wont work. See if you can do this experiment somehow without anything that could be infested! Textiles need to be washed hot to get them free of allergenes.
>
> Hmm. I'm not exactly following you, do you mean to sleep better? I wash my bedding about every two weeks. When you say you had am epiphany do you mean Nardil has started working? You may wanna go up to 60 if you aren't starting to feel better soon, at least, that is what it took for me to begin to have symptoms start to go away. Good luck! -zDoh! This was for another fred lol. Sorry about that.
Yes, when the medication kicked in i had a very massive epiphany, kind of multiple epiphanies. I was in complete and utter denial before i took the drug.
The psychologist told me in therapy that i was very fortunate the medication had this effect on me. Her face literally lit up when i talked.God i want this to come back! These freakin idiots who weined me off of it and did all this sh*t to my head with the full range of sh*t meds. I was doing swell on 45 mg and it didnt look like that was going to stop.
I hope they didnt make me treatment resistant.
Posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:04:22
In reply to Re: nardil 2nd timers: onset of action takes longer?, posted by Lamdage on July 8, 2011, at 19:02:41
If they did make me treatment resistant to nardil im gonna get a steel pipe and bring this place TO THE GROUND
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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