![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 21:06:36
Doesn't surprise me as have experienced this myself seems now there are studies of antiinflammatories and antibiotics boosting SSRI Tx in Depression. Phillipa
From Medscape Medical News > Psychiatry
Antibiotics, Anti-Inflammatories Boost Depression Treatment
Fran Lowry
Prescribing Information June 30, 2011 (Brighton, United Kingdom) Adding an anti-inflammatory medication to an antidepressant may augment efficacy and enhance depression treatment, researchers said here at the International Congress of the Royal College of Psychiatrists 2011.
Carmine Pariante, MD, PhD, from the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College, London, United Kingdom, told delegates attending the International Congress of the Royal College of Psychiatrists 2011 that a series of studies published during the last 5 years offers clear evidence to support the combination therapy with anti-inflammatory drugs and antidepressant medication.
Dr. Carmine Pariante"Inflammation is a key element in the pathogenesis of depression, and using anti-inflammatory drugs is a novel strategy that uses a completely new antidepressant approach, finally, after 20 years of me-too drugs," Dr. Pariante told Medscape Medical News.
Speaking on behalf of the Psychiatric Research into Inflammation, Immunity and Mood Effects (PRIME), a consortium of UK researchers in biological psychiatry, Dr. Pariante said that it is well known that long-term illness is a trigger for depression and that people with chronic disorders also have high levels of inflammatory markers or cytokines.
"These links have now been shown by clinical trials carried out by PRIME researchers from Brighton, Glasgow, and Bristol, as well as King's College. Recently, 2 studies by UK scientists have shown that levels of clinical depression increased significantly when people were given medication for hepatitis C and vaccinations against typhoid, both of which are known to raise levels of inflammation.
Promising Approach for Other Conditions
As reported by Medscape Medical News, combination therapy with antibiotics has also shown promise in severe multiple sclerosis, fragile X syndrome, stroke, and Parkinson's disease.
During his presentation, Dr. Pariante discussed an article by Julien Mendlewicz, MD, from the Department of Psychiatry at Erasme Hospital in Belgium, and colleagues, which showed that acetylsalicylic acid (ASA) added to a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) improved the response rate and extended time to remission in depressed patients who had failed to respond to 4 weeks of SSRI treatment alone.
"This study was chosen for discussion because it is the most classical of the anti-inflammatory drug studies, and the ASA has a good side effect profile, at least at the dose used. There were also some animal data from the same authors that suggested antidepressant efficacy, as discussed in their paper," Dr. Pariante said.
"My own research has demonstrated high levels of inflammation in a variety of depression models," he added.
High levels of inflammation induce depressive symptoms, especially those that are more somatic, such as tiredness, loss of appetite, and disturbed sleep.
"Hence, because the high levels of inflammation are participating in the pathogenesis of depressive symptoms, decreasing inflammation has a therapeutic antidepressant effect," he said.
Minocycline One of Many Potential Options
John Potokar, MD, of the Academic Unit of Psychiatry, Bristol University, United Kingdom, noted that 1 theory of how drugs that reduce inflammation work in depression holds that evolutionary biology is responsible for both depressive traits and inflammation.
"All the behavior that we call depression can also be seen in sickness behavior...the behavioral changes that occur during inflammation. It may be that humans evolved these behaviors as a protective mechanism," Dr. Potokar said in a statement released at the Congress.
Dr. Pariante said he is also considering the antibiotic minocycline, which dampens inflammation, as a possible adjunct to antidepressant medication.
"We are interested in minocycline because it is cheap, well tolerated, and has already been used in other samples of patients with mental health problems in the context of inflammation, but never, surprisingly, in depression. It is also important to stress that minocycline is used as an antibiotic, but the anti-inflammatory effects, which we hope to use to help depression, are through a direct anti-inflammatory action that is independent from the antibiotic action."
The ultimate aim, he said, is to "bring forward a program of research using anti-inflammatory action in depression. Minocycline is only one of the options that we are considering."
International Congress of the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCP) 2011. Presented June 29, 2011.
Posted by Bob on July 1, 2011, at 21:53:11
In reply to Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 21:06:36
I wish they would have mentioned some of the many other options they are exploring.
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 23:33:18
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by Bob on July 1, 2011, at 21:53:11
Dentist had me take 3 200mg ibphrophens for 24 hours and honestly the next day felt great. So I believe this could be true. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2011, at 0:33:34
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » Bob, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 23:33:18
> Dentist had me take 3 200mg ibphrophens for 24 hours and honestly the next day felt great. So I believe this could be true. Phillipa
What's old is new again.
I tried doxycycline for over 6 consecutive months as an adjunct to several antidepressants. Nothing. This trial was performed on me at least 5 years ago, and doxycycline was chosen because it is actually a more powerful anti-inflammatory than minocycline.
Is the inflammation present in depression its cause or, rather, is it a systemic reaction to depression? Which is cause and which is effect?
Inflammation does seem to be a biomarker of depression, but how reliable is it in making differential diagnoses or establishing etiologies?
There are numerous dysfunctional microscopic neural structural and chemical changes along with organelle damage that together produce cascades of signalling events that might possibly stimulate an immune reaction to these anomalies. Just a guess. Basically, changes in cell surface proteins and other chemical entities result from the damage, atrophy, and induction of apoptotis of neurons. Much of these signals are also the result of altered gene activity as a reaction to stress and how it works to produce damaging free radical species.
Which came first - the local and systemic biological stresses resulting from depression or the immune processes associated with it?
Poor rats and mice. We may need to sacrifice more of them to figure these things out. It should be easy to design investigations to study a rat's behavioral reaction to pro-inflammatory cytokines.
:-(
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on July 2, 2011, at 1:19:36
In reply to Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 21:06:36
Some natural anti-inflammatories have other actions on neurotransmitters that can have mood boosting effects, such as curucumin.
Here's a list of all the natural and potent anti-inflammatories I am familiar with, most of which have other actions that positively impact both mood and general health:
Curcumin
Holy Basil/Tulsi
Boswellia
EPA/DHA omega 3s
Ginger
Astaxanthin(no more than 3 to 5 mgs for inflammation, higher than that may promote inflammation)
Pycnogenol
Grapeseed Extract
Green Tea
Posted by sigismund on July 2, 2011, at 1:23:44
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by morgan miller on July 2, 2011, at 1:19:36
Boswellia is fantastic.
Posted by jms600 on July 2, 2011, at 6:27:36
In reply to Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 21:06:36
Tumeric contains curcumin. Doesn't curcumin inhibit monoamine oxidase to some degree??
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2011, at 8:05:42
In reply to Curcumin as an antidepressant?, posted by jms600 on July 2, 2011, at 6:27:36
WTF.
They just realeased a study showing that antiinflamitory use lowered the effectiveness of AD's.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110425153602.htm
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2011, at 8:24:05
In reply to Re: Curcumin as an antidepressant?, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2011, at 8:05:42
Maybe it's the sporadic use of motrin as it can cause heart attacks now also. Today have a road trip and will take low dose of motrin and see if I do better. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on July 2, 2011, at 12:54:09
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by morgan miller on July 2, 2011, at 1:19:36
Morgan,
If someone were to begin an herb from the list below, what might you suggest?
Boswellia? Cucurmin if one is experiencing pain? I would like to start slow :-) and observe. Blood thinning is not an issue for me. I would like to know if cucurmin might be contraindicated with maoi's as JMS suggested.
(Fish oil is onboard. I need to restart :-/ )
Thanks.
> Some natural anti-inflammatories have other actions on neurotransmitters that can have mood boosting effects, such as curucumin.
>
> Here's a list of all the natural and potent anti-inflammatories I am familiar with, most of which have other actions that positively impact both mood and general health:
>
> Curcumin
> Holy Basil/Tulsi
> Boswellia
> EPA/DHA omega 3s
> Ginger
> Astaxanthin(no more than 3 to 5 mgs for inflammation, higher than that may promote inflammation)
> Pycnogenol
> Grapeseed Extract
> Green Tea
>
Posted by sigismund on July 2, 2011, at 18:20:15
In reply to Curcumin as an antidepressant?, posted by jms600 on July 2, 2011, at 6:27:36
That's what it feels like when I take around 1g of soluble curcuminoids.
I can feel the difference in the day and insomnia follows that night.
Posted by sigismund on July 2, 2011, at 18:33:31
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on July 2, 2011, at 12:54:09
Boswellia is particularly good for arthritis.
Pycnogenol is good for cardiovascular.
Curcumin to prevent cancer? And everything else it does.
Grapeseed extract is nice and cheap, though resveretrol gives me insomnia.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 2, 2011, at 19:18:44
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by sigismund on July 2, 2011, at 18:33:31
> Boswellia is particularly good for
arthritis.I have heard that, too. Though couldn't remember :-/ until you wrote that.
Curcumin and sleep you mentioned to JMS. That's enough to have me wait. Herbals are another ball game.
>
> Pycnogenol is good for cardiovascular.
>
> Curcumin to prevent cancer? And everything else it does.
>
> Grapeseed extract is nice and cheap, though resveretrol gives me insomnia.
Posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2011, at 19:44:48
In reply to Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2011, at 21:06:36
I totally agree with the antibiotic approach in depression, primarily because me and thousands of other lymies have personally experienced the improvement. I shouldn't say just Lyme however. Many possible stealth chronic infections.
Inflammation can come from other things besides infection, but it is my belief infection is the primary cause. We don't have reliable tests to pinpoint a suspect, so trial and error is routine. Some of the best markers are immune system markers, such as CD57.
Maybe depression itself causes inflammation. I don't know. Either way it doesn't matter. if they go hand in hand as common as the authors have witnessed, then therapy for one should help the other. That is unless inflammation came first, in which an antidepressant won't do squat.
The problem in choosing an antibiotic is there are so many different mutations of bugs. Lyme on the west coast responds well to Teasel Root, but not so well on the east coast. Why is that? The same mysterious phenomenon happen with antibiotics. For one person, Minocycline. Another Doxycycline. Another Flagyl. Maybe Rifampin. Usually a mix of 2 or 3 or sometimes a rotation of 2 or 3, so as to get the regular guys, the cyst guys, and the intracellular guys....a different antibiotic for each. Doxycycline does have some unique anti inflammation potency differentiating it from the others. Doses that are too low for infection have anti inflammatory mechanisms.
My own personal experience is that Doxycycline did help me better than any of a couple dozen psychiatric meds. But then, so did Diflucan. Diflucan is probably the most potent rapid antidepressant I've ever had, lifting me from the dumps in about 4 hours after the first dose. How could that be? I don't know. It takes a few days for the bugs to die off enough to feel any Herxing or improvement, so what happened in just 4 hours? My only guess is an immediate anti inflammatory response and somehow someway doing genetic instructing that somehow ties into mood chemicals indirectly.
Which brings up another complication. The symptoms of bacterial infection can look identical to lyme or other infections or depression. Brain fog and fatigue are the big clues to look for in any infection.
Ghosts. And yet another complication. As explained to me on a chart by my doctor, some bacteria change the genetic coding of your own DNA. So even after you have eradicated all the pathogenic organisms, the symptoms remain....the genes were changed in a negative way. In that situation, now we are dealing not only with anti inflammation, but trying to figure out how to bridge the genetic roadblock.....5htp, dlpa, tyrosine,ssirs, snris, stimulants, antipsychotics. They have far more actions than are popularly talked about, including turning certain genes up, down, on, or off. So through trial and error we get lucky and find the one that tweeks our genes the right way.
Anyway, I am a believer in antibiotics for depression except I don't approach it in such a general blanket one size fits all manner as the authors did. It just aint that simple. That's why Doxycycline for 6 months didn't help SLS. For whatever reason, it didn't hit the right bugs and/or it didn't massage the genes the right way to make any difference. A different substance might.
Posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2011, at 20:09:05
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on July 2, 2011, at 12:54:09
Excellent question. I've been through them all, read books on them, and read of posts on the web about how they worked or didn't work with other people.
I would put the number one best choice a fair distance higher than any on this list. That would be Japanese Knotweed, or more specifically Resveratrol by Source Naturals. Knotweed happens to be a major source of resvertrol. Most manufacturers use grapes instead. But Knotweed happens to have a lot of amazing properties to it, so Knotweed Resveratrol offers a lot more. Potent anti inflammation is just one of its features. Source naturals Resveratrol in the 40mg dose is the right one. While resvertrol is a miracle supplement in its own right, in this case it is just an extra bonus on top of the Knotweed.
Roaming the web, Curcumin/Tumeric seems to help a lot of people. But not me. Holy Basil and be hit or miss. If someone has adrenal fatigue or low cortisol, it will be problematic because it lowers cortisol.
We all respond differently so while I view the list I see I did badly on Curcumin/Tumeric....actually got a lot worse, and actually all of them caused me complications without benefit. Tops on that list I would say is Boshwellia. That is based on my respect for a couple really good herbal authors who give that herb high marks, higher than other more common names. Devils Claw would be another good one. I drink Ginger in various herbal teas practically everyday and I find it mildly helpful.
A few others not on the list that I found profoundly helpful....as in completely eliminating migraines....would be either Andrographis or Teasel Root. A lesser known one but very reliable and potent, acting much in the same way as our own natural steroids is Stephania Root.
Depending on the cause of inflammation, omega 3 oils can sometimes make it worse. They can be metabolized into the wrong stuff which is moderately toxic to the nervous system, and then of course the resulting inflammation involving the nervous system and brain. I find I can get away with one capsule a day of liver oil for omega 3 (potentiates antibacterial herbs/meds but straight fish oil doesn't). More than a capsule however, inflammation gets worse and so does mood. That's why I always say dose is so important....too much can be just as bad as too little. There's a proper individual fit that only we can find through trial and error, which could be anywhere from 1/10th of the smallest dose to twice the highest dose.
Hey, what can I say? Most chronic lymies know a ton about inflammation and depression, because that is the territory they live in every day. So I thought I would just share a little of my own experiences in case anyone finds it helpful.
For anyone wanting to explore this route, my advice is to start somewhere and keep trying one after another to find the best fit for you. In the end, it is usually a combo of 2 or 3 that does the job best, because they tweek inflammation and immunity in synergistic ways, spanning the spectrum of all manmade drugs, such as COX inhibitors and so on.
> Morgan,
>
> If someone were to begin an herb from the list below, what might you suggest?
>
> Boswellia? Cucurmin if one is experiencing pain? I would like to start slow :-) and observe. Blood thinning is not an issue for me. I would like to know if cucurmin might be contraindicated with maoi's as JMS suggested.
>
> (Fish oil is onboard. I need to restart :-/ )
>
> Thanks.
>
> > Some natural anti-inflammatories have other actions on neurotransmitters that can have mood boosting effects, such as curucumin.
>
> >
> > Here's a list of all the natural and potent anti-inflammatories I am familiar with, most of which have other actions that positively impact both mood and general health:
> >
> > Curcumin
> > Holy Basil/Tulsi
> > Boswellia
> > EPA/DHA omega 3s
> > Ginger
> > Astaxanthin(no more than 3 to 5 mgs for inflammation, higher than that may promote inflammation)
> > Pycnogenol
> > Grapeseed Extract
> > Green Tea
> >
>
>
Posted by floatingbridge on July 2, 2011, at 20:20:06
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2011, at 20:09:05
Hi BB,
Thanks here :-) Let me see if I heard you correctly. Boswellia (sp!) was o.k. for you.
The knotweed. That keeps coming up. Did it interfere with your sleep?
(I think I will ask anymore herbal questions over at alt board.)
fb
> Excellent question. I've been through them all, read books on them, and read of posts on the web about how they worked or didn't work with other people.
>
> I would put the number one best choice a fair distance higher than any on this list. That would be Japanese Knotweed, or more specifically Resveratrol by Source Naturals. Knotweed happens to be a major source of resvertrol. Most manufacturers use grapes instead. But Knotweed happens to have a lot of amazing properties to it, so Knotweed Resveratrol offers a lot more. Potent anti inflammation is just one of its features. Source naturals Resveratrol in the 40mg dose is the right one. While resvertrol is a miracle supplement in its own right, in this case it is just an extra bonus on top of the Knotweed.
>
> Roaming the web, Curcumin/Tumeric seems to help a lot of people. But not me. Holy Basil and be hit or miss. If someone has adrenal fatigue or low cortisol, it will be problematic because it lowers cortisol.
>
> We all respond differently so while I view the list I see I did badly on Curcumin/Tumeric....actually got a lot worse, and actually all of them caused me complications without benefit. Tops on that list I would say is Boshwellia. That is based on my respect for a couple really good herbal authors who give that herb high marks, higher than other more common names. Devils Claw would be another good one. I drink Ginger in various herbal teas practically everyday and I find it mildly helpful.
>
> A few others not on the list that I found profoundly helpful....as in completely eliminating migraines....would be either Andrographis or Teasel Root. A lesser known one but very reliable and potent, acting much in the same way as our own natural steroids is Stephania Root.
>
> Depending on the cause of inflammation, omega 3 oils can sometimes make it worse. They can be metabolized into the wrong stuff which is moderately toxic to the nervous system, and then of course the resulting inflammation involving the nervous system and brain. I find I can get away with one capsule a day of liver oil for omega 3 (potentiates antibacterial herbs/meds but straight fish oil doesn't). More than a capsule however, inflammation gets worse and so does mood. That's why I always say dose is so important....too much can be just as bad as too little. There's a proper individual fit that only we can find through trial and error, which could be anywhere from 1/10th of the smallest dose to twice the highest dose.
>
> Hey, what can I say? Most chronic lymies know a ton about inflammation and depression, because that is the territory they live in every day. So I thought I would just share a little of my own experiences in case anyone finds it helpful.
>
> For anyone wanting to explore this route, my advice is to start somewhere and keep trying one after another to find the best fit for you. In the end, it is usually a combo of 2 or 3 that does the job best, because they tweek inflammation and immunity in synergistic ways, spanning the spectrum of all manmade drugs, such as COX inhibitors and so on.
>
> > Morgan,
> >
> > If someone were to begin an herb from the list below, what might you suggest?
> >
> > Boswellia? Cucurmin if one is experiencing pain? I would like to start slow :-) and observe. Blood thinning is not an issue for me. I would like to know if cucurmin might be contraindicated with maoi's as JMS suggested.
> >
> > (Fish oil is onboard. I need to restart :-/ )
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > > Some natural anti-inflammatories have other actions on neurotransmitters that can have mood boosting effects, such as curucumin.
> >
> > >
> > > Here's a list of all the natural and potent anti-inflammatories I am familiar with, most of which have other actions that positively impact both mood and general health:
> > >
> > > Curcumin
> > > Holy Basil/Tulsi
> > > Boswellia
> > > EPA/DHA omega 3s
> > > Ginger
> > > Astaxanthin(no more than 3 to 5 mgs for inflammation, higher than that may promote inflammation)
> > > Pycnogenol
> > > Grapeseed Extract
> > > Green Tea
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by morgan miller on July 2, 2011, at 23:07:18
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on July 2, 2011, at 12:54:09
One of the best alternative pain remedies is one called Curamin by Terry Naturally. It's a combination of DLPA, a patented curcumin, a patented boswellia, and nattokinase. New Chapter's Zyflamend is pretty darn good too. I think I would take fish oil and curcumin starting out. I'm not sensitive to curcumin's mao inhibiting properties, but others are. Really it's a trial and error.
Like Sigi said, boswellia is great stuff. There is a highly concentrated boswellia supplement called 5 Loxin(boswellia is a 5 lox inhibitor-5 Lox is an inflammatory pathway), I've heard great things about it but have not yet tried it myself.
So, fish oil, if you are not already, and either curcumin or boswellia. Jarrow makes a good curcumin. If you want one that may be much more potent than your average 95 percent curcumin concentrated extract, look for any product with BCM-95(Curamed by Terry Naturally, BCM095 by Life extension, etc.), Meriva, or Longvida. Himalaya and Avesta make good Boswellia products. And then there is the 5-Loxin product I mentioned.
Posted by morgan miller on July 2, 2011, at 23:13:18
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2011, at 20:09:05
Yeah I forgot about resveratrol. Good post BB, thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2011, at 23:16:10
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2011, at 20:09:05
BB when the lymes was really active that's when hasimotos which is imfammed thyroid as you know I know you know (triple knows!!!!). That's when the real psych problems started. Even though given rocephin IV and then biaxin xl for two years three months on and three months off still 7 bands positive. The infection control doc is or was so stymied that tried doxy for a month and stopped. Interestingly enough when on the biaxin the day after stopping it for the last time sitting on a small Island we shelled on eating a sandwich and all of a sudden felt like I crashed to the ground. Wasn't imagined as involved in eating and talking and having a good time. Well the road trip today one motrin and felt better til about l0 hours later. To me never had a herx reaction but feel in my heart that there is a connection with imflammation and psych problems. Again the which came first chicken or egg?. Something is definitely going on and it's not in my mind as now I require less and less of benzos. To me ridiculous after 41 years. Shouldn't I be craving more? I guess they just don't work anymore or I don't need them anymore. Very confusing and frustrating. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on July 3, 2011, at 7:43:17
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2011, at 20:09:05
Hi BB,
Thanks here :-) Let me see if I heard you correctly. Boswellia (sp!) was o.k. for you.
The knotweed. That keeps coming up. Did it interfere with your sleep?
(I think I will ask anymore herbal questions over at alt board.)
fb
> Excellent question. I've been through them all, read books on them, and read of posts on the web about how they worked or didn't work with other people.
>
> I would put the number one best choice a fair distance higher than any on this list. That would be Japanese Knotweed, or more specifically Resveratrol by Source Naturals. Knotweed happens to be a major source of resvertrol. Most manufacturers use grapes instead. But Knotweed happens to have a lot of amazing properties to it, so Knotweed Resveratrol offers a lot more. Potent anti inflammation is just one of its features. Source naturals Resveratrol in the 40mg dose is the right one. While resvertrol is a miracle supplement in its own right, in this case it is just an extra bonus on top of the Knotweed.
>
> Roaming the web, Curcumin/Tumeric seems to help a lot of people. But not me. Holy Basil and be hit or miss. If someone has adrenal fatigue or low cortisol, it will be problematic because it lowers cortisol.
>
> We all respond differently so while I view the list I see I did badly on Curcumin/Tumeric....actually got a lot worse, and actually all of them caused me complications without benefit. Tops on that list I would say is Boshwellia. That is based on my respect for a couple really good herbal authors who give that herb high marks, higher than other more common names. Devils Claw would be another good one. I drink Ginger in various herbal teas practically everyday and I find it mildly helpful.
>
> A few others not on the list that I found profoundly helpful....as in completely eliminating migraines....would be either Andrographis or Teasel Root. A lesser known one but very reliable and potent, acting much in the same way as our own natural steroids is Stephania Root.
>
> Depending on the cause of inflammation, omega 3 oils can sometimes make it worse. They can be metabolized into the wrong stuff which is moderately toxic to the nervous system, and then of course the resulting inflammation involving the nervous system and brain. I find I can get away with one capsule a day of liver oil for omega 3 (potentiates antibacterial herbs/meds but straight fish oil doesn't). More than a capsule however, inflammation gets worse and so does mood. That's why I always say dose is so important....too much can be just as bad as too little. There's a proper individual fit that only we can find through trial and error, which could be anywhere from 1/10th of the smallest dose to twice the highest dose.
>
> Hey, what can I say? Most chronic lymies know a ton about inflammation and depression, because that is the territory they live in every day. So I thought I would just share a little of my own experiences in case anyone finds it helpful.
>
> For anyone wanting to explore this route, my advice is to start somewhere and keep trying one after another to find the best fit for you. In the end, it is usually a combo of 2 or 3 that does the job best, because they tweek inflammation and immunity in synergistic ways, spanning the spectrum of all manmade drugs, such as COX inhibitors and so on.
>
> > Morgan,
> >
> > If someone were to begin an herb from the list below, what might you suggest?
> >
> > Boswellia? Cucurmin if one is experiencing pain? I would like to start slow :-) and observe. Blood thinning is not an issue for me. I would like to know if cucurmin might be contraindicated with maoi's as JMS suggested.
> >
> > (Fish oil is onboard. I need to restart :-/ )
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > > Some natural anti-inflammatories have other actions on neurotransmitters that can have mood boosting effects, such as curucumin.
> >
> > >
> > > Here's a list of all the natural and potent anti-inflammatories I am familiar with, most of which have other actions that positively impact both mood and general health:
> > >
> > > Curcumin
> > > Holy Basil/Tulsi
> > > Boswellia
> > > EPA/DHA omega 3s
> > > Ginger
> > > Astaxanthin(no more than 3 to 5 mgs for inflammation, higher than that may promote inflammation)
> > > Pycnogenol
> > > Grapeseed Extract
> > > Green Tea
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by SLS on July 3, 2011, at 8:42:31
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » bleauberry, posted by floatingbridge on July 3, 2011, at 7:43:17
In case it gets lost in the discussion here, the anti-inflammatory properties of minocycline and doxycycline are separate from their antibiotic properties. It's like taking two separate drugs. Although these drugs may fail as antibiotics to specific pathogens, they still exert anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective properties. You don't need to have Lyme to benefit from these drugs.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2011, at 10:43:38
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's, posted by SLS on July 3, 2011, at 8:42:31
So glad you posted this. I'm hoping you have a paper or something that explains the difference as you are a great researcher I'm not. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 3, 2011, at 12:23:29
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » SLS, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2011, at 10:43:38
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21350981
- Scott
Inflammopharmacology. 2011 Apr;19(2):99-110. Epub 2011 Feb 25.
Anti-inflammatory properties of doxycycline and minocycline in experimental models: an in vivo and in vitro comparative study.
Leite LM, Carvalho AG, Ferreira PL, Pessoa IX, Gonçalves DO, Lopes Ade A, Góes JG, Alves VC, Leal LK, Brito GA, Viana GS.
SourceFaculty of Medicine of Juazeiro de Norte, Av. Tenente Raimundo Rocha s/n, Juazeiro do Norte, 63.040-360, CE, Brazil.
Abstract
AIMS AND METHODS:
Minocycline (Mino) and doxycycline (Dox) are second generation tetracyclines known to present several other effects, which are independent from their antimicrobial activities. We studied in a comparative way the anti-inflammatory effects of Mino and Dox, on acute models of peripheral inflammation in rodents (formalin test and peritonitis in mice, and carrageenan-induced paw oedema in rats). Immunohistochemical assays for TNF-alpha and iNOS in rat paws of carrageenan-induced oedema were also carried out as well as in vitro assays for myeloperoxidase (MPO) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH). Furthermore, antioxidant activities were evaluated by the DPPH assay.
RESULTS:
In the formalin test although Mino and Dox (1, 5, 10 and 25 mg/kg, i.p.) inhibited the first phase, they acted predominantly on the second phase of the test, where inhibition of the licking time close to 80% were observed. Mino and Dox were very efficacious in reducing the carrageenan-induced paw oedema in rats (10, 25 and 50 mg/kg, i.p.) and carrageenan-induced leucocyte migration (1 and 5 mg/kg, i.p.) to mice peritoneal cavities. Besides, they also significantly inhibited MPO and LDH releases at doses ranging from 0.001 to 1 μg/ml. Thus, in general, the anti-inflammatory activity of Dox was higher as compared to that of Mino, although the radical scavenging activity of Mino was of a magnitude 10 times higher.
CONCLUSIONS:
Our data indicate that anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects, involve the inhibition of iNOS and TNF-alpha, among other properties, and these encourage clinical studies of these compounds for new therapeutic applications, especially those were inflammation plays a role.
PMID:
21350981
[PubMed - in process]
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2011, at 12:59:22
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » Phillipa, posted by SLS on July 3, 2011, at 12:23:29
Scott thanks. I do think the mystery so to speak is narrowing a bit. Was thinking yesterday that weren't Maoi's developed for TB patients and when given they became or seemed happy. And these were sick people so imflammation had to have been involved. Pieces of the puzzel. So much brain power here. Thanks again. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2011, at 13:04:23
In reply to Re: Anti inflammatories and Antibiotics Boost SSRI's » SLS, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2011, at 12:59:22
Found this also. Phillipa although the skin it's cytokines.
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