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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WAS on May 19, 2011, at 20:26:06
I have not found anything on the Web or various boards about this. After taking Parnate for about a year I discovered that I had Vitamin B-12 and Folate deficiency (also known as "Pernicious Anemia," which includes low Red Blood Cell (RBC) count and abnormally large RBCs.) I know for a fact that I did not have this condition before starting Parnate, although I cannot attribute it to the Parnate. My internist began giving me B-12 shots each week and I took a prescription folic acid pill every day. My anemia lessened to the extent that my internist suggested that I begin to take OTC B-12 pills rather than the shot. I took the first B-12 pill (manufactured by Finest Natural) on Saturday at 6:30 pm. It is a "Timed Release" pill. I took my normal evening dose of Parnate at 9:30 pm (40 mg). Sunday morning when I awoke I had bad "brain zaps," like in Serotonin Discontinuation Syndrome. These continued all day Sunday, which is very unusual for me. Sunday at supper I took another B-12 pill, and Monday my mood started to go south (and the brain zaps continued). By Tuesday I was crying without warning and beginning to want to die. It finally occurred to me that maybe the B-12 pills had something to do with what was clearly a huge change in the bioavailability of serotonin and probably other monoamines. So I didn't take the B-12 pill on Tuesday evening, and on Wednesday I felt a bit better. By Thursday afternoon the zaps had stopped completely, I no longer wanted to die, most of the crying jags had stopped, and my mood had turned around (although it was not back to the point it had been when I dropped off the cliff).
I can only surmise that there was something about the B-12 pill (or the Folic Acid pill) that interfered with the metabolism of the Parnate. Has anyone else out there had this kind of experience? I'm going to try taking the sublingual form of B-12 and see how I tolerate that, but in the meantime I would be interested in any experiences with B-12, Folic Acid, or other OTC meds. Thanks.WAS
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2011, at 10:58:40
In reply to B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by WAS on May 19, 2011, at 20:26:06
I have no experience but this is very interesting. I'd like to follow the thread. As Deplin the folic acid prescription pill list pernicious anemia as a side effect. And a few on here are taking Deplin and parnate or nardil. Thanks Phillipa. so glad you are feeling better. Oh and I'd think sublingual would be fast acting like an IM as goes directing into blood system or at least works quickly.
Posted by henryo on May 20, 2011, at 16:23:48
In reply to B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by WAS on May 19, 2011, at 20:26:06
Try Deplin. Look at my previous posts about it. It is entertwined with anemia. I bet you that stuff works wonders for you. Not a pharmaceutical but it does require a scrip. Its medical food of all things. I was glad to see your post- my grandfather had terrible Pernicious Anemia and I can see some of those issues in me. I do B12 injections because Deplin can mask a deficiency but the Deplin itself has worked wonders. It is what your body is supposed to be able to metabolize folate into. Many people are unable to. I'm not going to go in to it in this post because I and others have written so much about it elsewhere on this board. I would love to hear about your experience with it. If you are part of the huge gene pool who cannot process folic acid, then even if you eat it by the pound it wouldn't help you. Check out the website on Deplin.
Posted by henryo on May 20, 2011, at 16:31:11
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by henryo on May 20, 2011, at 16:23:48
Didn't see Phillipa's post before I posted. She mentioned Deplin first and that is a great thing to look at. Search pscho-babble for it. You will be fascinated. And probably helped. L-methylfolate
Posted by WAS on May 21, 2011, at 16:50:47
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by henryo on May 20, 2011, at 16:31:11
Many, many thanks. Will follow up right away.
WAS
Posted by henryo on May 22, 2011, at 1:18:31
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by WAS on May 21, 2011, at 16:50:47
Please post again a week or two after you try Deplin. I'd like to hear what you think. Thanks
Posted by SusanWhelan on May 25, 2011, at 15:45:29
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by henryo on May 20, 2011, at 16:23:48
Hi, I work with Deplin. I am so glad that you have had success with Deplin. Just to give some additional information that may help others, Deplin is L-methylfolate, the active form of folate, what your body makes from folic acid. Deplin works through a natural process in the brain to manage the monamines associated with mood. Deplin, when taken with an anti-depressant, provides greater improvement in depression symptoms in a shorter period of time compared to monotherapy. You can find additional information on our website. http://www.deplin.com/ Please let me know if you have questions regarding Deplin.
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2011, at 22:03:05
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by SusanWhelan on May 25, 2011, at 15:45:29
Susan glad you posted. Phillipa
Posted by henryo on May 29, 2011, at 4:40:37
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by SusanWhelan on May 25, 2011, at 15:45:29
What does that mean, "I work with Deplin"?
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2011, at 5:15:53
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by SusanWhelan on May 25, 2011, at 15:45:29
> Hi, I work with Deplin. I am so glad that you have had success with Deplin. Just to give some additional information that may help others, Deplin is L-methylfolate, the active form of folate, what your body makes from folic acid. Deplin works through a natural process in the brain to manage the monamines associated with mood. Deplin, when taken with an anti-depressant, provides greater improvement in depression symptoms in a shorter period of time compared to monotherapy. You can find additional information on our website. http://www.deplin.com/ Please let me know if you have questions regarding Deplin.
Just because methylfolate is a "natural" substance does not make it benign, especially in supratherapeutic dosages. I have tried Deplin three times. The results for each trial were the same. After an initial mild improvement, I became moderately dysphoric for the remaining weeks I remained on it. Within 48 hours of discontinuation, I felt the dysphoria disappear.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2011, at 5:17:25
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate? » SusanWhelan, posted by SLS on May 29, 2011, at 5:15:53
> Just because methylfolate is a "natural" substance does not make it benign, especially in> supratherapeutic
I meant "supranutritional".
> dosages. I have tried Deplin three times. The results for each trial were the same. After an initial mild improvement, I became moderately dysphoric for the remaining weeks I remained on it. Within 48 hours of discontinuation, I felt the dysphoria disappear.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2011, at 5:31:30
In reply to B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by WAS on May 19, 2011, at 20:26:06
I don't know about Parnate, but it is my understanding that Nardil can eat up folate.
Deplin should not be taken to treat anemia without first having blood tests, as it can mask the symptoms of B12 deficiency anemia.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2011, at 19:46:30
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate?, posted by henryo on May 29, 2011, at 4:40:37
Works for the company that manufactures Deplin she babbled me. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2011, at 19:48:58
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate? » SusanWhelan, posted by SLS on May 29, 2011, at 5:15:53
I'm so sorry seems it works well for those that lack the enzyme that converts folate but if you do have it I see no purpose in taking it. Tried it and decided same that could mask pernicious anemia.Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on June 5, 2011, at 16:27:06
In reply to Re: B12 and Folate deficiency related to Parnate? » WAS, posted by SLS on May 29, 2011, at 5:31:30
> I don't know about Parnate, but it is my understanding that Nardil can eat up folate.
>
> Deplin should not be taken to treat anemia without first having blood tests, as it can mask the symptoms of B12 deficiency anemia.
>
>
> - Scottgiven the extreme safety of b12, i think it prudent to just take some b12, though if you actually have anemia its probably worth figuring out why.
-d/r
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