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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by 49er on April 21, 2011, at 2:51:16
In reply to How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 0:53:32
> Can someone explain how my situation is different to say a heroin addict.
>
> I seem to be addicted to Zyprexa. I can't stop taking it without horrible side effects that seem to be similar to a heroin withdrawal.
>
> Where is the difference?
>Hi Huxley,
My heart goes out to you.
I see no difference to be honest.
How have you tried to taper? Can you post an example of your tapering schedule?
49er
Posted by SLS on April 21, 2011, at 6:25:46
In reply to How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 0:53:32
> Can someone explain how my situation is different to say a heroin addict.
>
> I seem to be addicted to Zyprexa. I can't stop taking it without horrible side effects that seem to be similar to a heroin withdrawal.
>
> Where is the difference?
>
The absence of cravings.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2011, at 11:16:31
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by SLS on April 21, 2011, at 6:25:46
Do you crave it or have withdrawal? In a way to me it is about the same as heroine illegal and zyprexa prescribed. But if can't get off still the same pain? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on April 21, 2011, at 12:05:41
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2011, at 11:16:31
"Addiction is a primary, chronic, neurobiologic disease, with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. It is characterized by behaviors that include one or more of the following: impaired control over drug use, compulsive use, continued use despite harm, and craving." - Wiki
Not the same, Phillipa.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2011, at 13:11:00
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict? » huxley, posted by 49er on April 21, 2011, at 2:51:16
> > Can someone explain how my situation is different to say a heroin addict.
> >
> > I seem to be addicted to Zyprexa. I can't stop taking it without horrible side effects that seem to be similar to a heroin withdrawal.
> >
> > Where is the difference?
> >
>
> Hi Huxley,
>
> My heart goes out to you.
>
> I see no difference to be honest.
>
> How have you tried to taper? Can you post an example of your tapering schedule?
>
> 49erFriends,
If you are considering posting here, I am requesting that you view the following article.
Lou
To se this,
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in,
[Thomas-An-Ruth, psychotropic drugs, withdrawal, PAWS
Posted by bleauberry on April 21, 2011, at 16:54:51
In reply to How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 0:53:32
There isn't any difference except in the way it is phrased to be politically correct. Abusive drugs cause withdrawals. But nonabusive drugs cause "discontinuation syndrome". Same darn thing. Stupid play on words by the elite.
I guess there is only one difference I can think of....with the abusive drugs there is the craving for the next dose. Not just the need for it, but a powerful craving. With zyprexa, if you crave it at all it is just to end the agony but not a real craving.
I came off 5mg after being on it 8 years. My advice to anyone else is to take the dose downward in very tiny steps and don't set a timeframe on it. Let the journey itself guide you. If you dropped the dose in too big of a step or too rapidly, you will for sure feel it.
It took me about 3 months to get off it. I used a pill splitter to cut a pill in half. And then a razor blade to shave a tiny corner off the half. If my dose was the full pill, then my new dose was the full half along with the other half that has a tiny chunk missing off the corner. Over time the chunks you cut off and throw away get bigger until you're down to a half a pill. Keep going that way. Eventually that tiny crumb you cut off on the first day, well, a crumb about that same size is all you will be taking in the ending days of gentle taper down.
Someone else might be able to do it much faster than I did. I'm just sharing the way it went with me.
In any case, yeah, drop the dose too fast and it feels like a withdrawal because it is. Your body has come to depend on the zyprexa molecule and freaks out if it is all of a sudden missing.
Posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 18:53:25
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by bleauberry on April 21, 2011, at 16:54:51
I am stuggling to see the difference myself.
One difference I can see is that the governent will give you assistance to get off one where the other you are hung out to dry.
I have been trying to get off it for about a year and a half now. My first attemps were cold turkey which didnt end well and then I tried tapers that were way to fast.
Now I am taptering about 1mg of the tablet every 4 weeks. The tablet weighs 140mg and I am down to 49mg. I started having serious problems at about 156mg.
I still get withdrawal problems even with this slow taper.
I constantly have a mild case of the 'flu' which medicine doesnt help.
My sleep is terrible.
My muscles ache horribly.
I look like I am hungover, bad skin, dark rings under my eyes.
Every day at 2:00 like clockwork My anxiety is greatly increased and I get mild depresonalisation and fatigue.
I relate this all to my withdrawl because if I updose it all goes away.
It really feels like it has ruined me physically and I hope I recover.
This is going to take two years to get off.
Thanks for the kind words to those who gave them.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 22, 2011, at 7:17:25
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 18:53:25
> I am stuggling to see the difference myself.
>
> One difference I can see is that the governent will give you assistance to get off one where the other you are hung out to dry.
>
> I have been trying to get off it for about a year and a half now. My first attemps were cold turkey which didnt end well and then I tried tapers that were way to fast.
>
> Now I am taptering about 1mg of the tablet every 4 weeks. The tablet weighs 140mg and I am down to 49mg. I started having serious problems at about 156mg.
>
> I still get withdrawal problems even with this slow taper.
>
> I constantly have a mild case of the 'flu' which medicine doesnt help.
>
> My sleep is terrible.
>
> My muscles ache horribly.
>
> I look like I am hungover, bad skin, dark rings under my eyes.
>
> Every day at 2:00 like clockwork My anxiety is greatly increased and I get mild depresonalisation and fatigue.
>
> I relate this all to my withdrawl because if I updose it all goes away.
>
> It really feels like it has ruined me physically and I hope I recover.
>
> This is going to take two years to get off.
>
> Thanks for the kind words to those who gave them.huxley,
You wrote,[...trying to get off it for about a year and a half now...still get withdrawal problems even with this slow taper...It really feels like it ruined me physically...].
I really would like to help you to be healed but there are directives to me here from the owner of this site, Robert Hsiung, that I am prohibited from posting particular material that IMHO could have the potential to save your life and free you from your ruined condition that you describe. Then there is another directive to me that I can not post here where you could find that material.
Day upon day, night upon night, I read the posts here of the sufferings of those that take mind-altering psychotropic drugs. Drugs that the research now agrees can cause one to think of killing themselves and/or others. Drugs that they take and if they want to stop them they could have the condition that you describe here. Drugs that can induce a life-ruining condition that may never go away even when the druug is stopped such as tardive dyskinesia, diabetes, and other conditions that could lead to the death of the drug-taker.
When one wants to rid themselves of mind-altering drugs there is now that tthe research agrees with that when in that state their mind could be alterd to compel them to want to kill themselves and/or others. And the drug taker and one that is wanting to stop the drug is in a community that promulgates racial/religious defamation toward a group, the person taking the drug, or in the condition of trying to rid themselves of the drug, could have their mind directed to want to murder a person of the group that the community allows to be defamed.
I am posting this so that members here will hopfully remember that if your mind becomes alterd from either taking these type of mind-altering chemicals or if you are in the state of trying to rid yourself of the drug, that you might not target another to murder, or kill yourself, and know tthat the drug ,or the state of trying to rid yourself of the drug, could induce this compulsion and you will hopefully not allow it to take over you.
You could also look at the admin board and see the pages upon pages of outstanding notifications and requests from me to Mr. Hsiung. Requests tthat IMHHHO, if answerd, could mark the difference between life and death to some here that are suffering from these drugs and trying to rid themselves of them. And if answerd IMHO could have the potential to save lives.
Lou
Posted by ron1953 on April 24, 2011, at 11:05:16
In reply to How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 0:53:32
No difference, in my not-so-humble OPINION. My realization of my addiction to Klonopin, and subsequent horrible withdrawal were the final events that convinced me that big pharma's "cures" are worse than the disease. People take illicit psychotropic drugs to feel better. People take prescription psychotropic drugs to feel better. Same goal with often the same negative consequences.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2011, at 12:30:41
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by ron1953 on April 24, 2011, at 11:05:16
> No difference, in my not-so-humble OPINION. My realization of my addiction to Klonopin, and subsequent horrible withdrawal were the final events that convinced me that big pharma's "cures" are worse than the disease. People take illicit psychotropic drugs to feel better. People take prescription psychotropic drugs to feel better. Same goal with often the same negative consequences.
ron1953,
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20101122/msgs/971745.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2011, at 13:07:33
In reply to Lou's response-pstilrknro » ron1953, posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2011, at 12:30:41
Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this tthread, I am requesting that you read the following.
Lou
To read this,
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in;
[psychotropic drugs, dr axe,inn depression, medications, January 20 2010,]
This usually is first but the phrase {if you or your children are taking psychotropic drugs} can be seen, then is the one
Posted by floatingbridge on April 25, 2011, at 11:34:04
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 18:53:25
For me, the difference is how I think of myself. Addict implies willful abuse and moral weakness above and beyond the average person. It's self-maligning. Whatever one may think of heroin addicts, Meth addicts--and I personally have the idea that for whatever reason they fell to self-medicating--the connotations of 'addict' do not help me at all in dealing with my own psych med
issues. I feel strongly about this because I just and *finally* (hopefully) put this to bed for myself :(You are not an *addict*. Pysch meds do cause withdrawals a.k.a. the more neutral term discontinuation syndrome as it's now called. Whatever, really. The difference between discontinuation and
withdrawal is a bit too fine for me, esp out of the mouth of a drug rep (but not a pdoc. That they use the dw phrase Seems responsible and accurate.)How does the baggage that the word addict carries help when one needs
everything to deal with withdrawal, taper, discontinuance? Official recognition, in the form of medical assistance from the government (are you in the UK?) would be great. So would acknowledgment from your doctor. And then help treating
the physical and mood symptoms you've
been left to deal with.Does any doctor acknowledge what is happening to you? I ask because I have one or two that understand that it is not all in my head. Though my head has a great deal to say about it all. That's why
I've worked to get myself out of the addict category. I was just tormenting myself.So flu-symptoms? And mood crashes? What else? And maybe, how do you work with the anticipated crash each day?
Hope this reads o.k. I'm hurrying.
Take good care.
> I am stuggling to see the difference myself.
>
> One difference I can see is that the governent will give you assistance to get off one where the other you are hung out to dry.
>
> I have been trying to get off it for about a year and a half now. My first attemps were cold turkey which didnt end well and then I tried tapers that were way to fast.
>
> Now I am taptering about 1mg of the tablet every 4 weeks. The tablet weighs 140mg and I am down to 49mg. I started having serious problems at about 156mg.
>
> I still get withdrawal problems even with this slow taper.
>
> I constantly have a mild case of the 'flu' which medicine doesnt help.
>
> My sleep is terrible.
>
> My muscles ache horribly.
>
> I look like I am hungover, bad skin, dark rings under my eyes.
>
> Every day at 2:00 like clockwork My anxiety is greatly increased and I get mild depresonalisation and fatigue.
>
> I relate this all to my withdrawl because if I updose it all goes away.
>
> It really feels like it has ruined me physically and I hope I recover.
>
> This is going to take two years to get off.
>
> Thanks for the kind words to those who gave them.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 25, 2011, at 11:35:57
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 18:53:25
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2011, at 14:16:12
In reply to Lou's request-kkrmehygnsthewmhniddy, posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2011, at 13:07:33
> Friends,
> If you are considering being a discussant in this tthread, I am requesting that you read the following.
> Lou
> To read this,
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in;
> [psychotropic drugs, dr axe,inn depression, medications, January 20 2010,]
> This usually is first but the phrase {if you or your children are taking psychotropic drugs} can be seen, then is the oneFriends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that ou view the following video.
To view this video;
A. Bring up Google
B. Type in;
[youtube, ADD ADHD Drugs Dangerous and Addictive]
You will see a screen showing a woman and a man and the time is 15 min posted on Nov 30, 2010
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 26, 2011, at 15:54:16
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 21, 2011, at 18:53:25
If it was a street drug like heroin or meth, it would be worse. There would always be a temptation to increase the dose, making it almost impossible to taper.
It might help you if you could switch to a different anti-psychotic for the taper. There appears to be no liquid form of Zyprexa. Switching to a drug available as a liquid would be easier than finely cutting tablets.
Posted by huxley on April 26, 2011, at 23:01:26
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict? » huxley, posted by mtdewcmu on April 26, 2011, at 15:54:16
It is an interesting comparrison that is for sure.
I will get off Zyprexa, it's just a long and hellish road that I never needed to walk down and wouldn't had it of not been for trigger happy doctors and greedy salespeople.If I could get back to the state I was in before I tried any psych meds I would be greatful.
Some may claim that it is merely the natural progression of my illness.. But I can say %99 that this is not the case for me. I have had my physical health destroyed by psych meds and I don't believe it has done a great deal for my mental health. Infact, it has destroyed my memory and motor capabilities which makes living in society and working very hard.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 27, 2011, at 4:08:59
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 26, 2011, at 23:01:26
> It is an interesting comparrison that is for sure.
>
>
> I will get off Zyprexa, it's just a long and hellish road that I never needed to walk down and wouldn't had it of not been for trigger happy doctors and greedy salespeople.
>
> If I could get back to the state I was in before I tried any psych meds I would be greatful.
>
> Some may claim that it is merely the natural progression of my illness.. But I can say %99 that this is not the case for me. I have had my physical health destroyed by psych meds and I don't believe it has done a great deal for my mental health. Infact, it has destroyed my memory and motor capabilities which makes living in society and working very hard.
>
> Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following.
Lou
To view this video,
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in;[youtube,Every Month Psychiatric drugs]
You will see a pic of a woman..in the heading is {more than 911}...the time is 11 min posted on Feb 9 2009
>
Posted by SLS on April 27, 2011, at 5:36:43
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 26, 2011, at 23:01:26
> I will get off Zyprexa, it's just a long and hellish road that I never needed to walk down and wouldn't had it of not been for trigger happy doctors and greedy salespeople.
If you haven't corresponded with 49er yet, I believe he can coach you on how to discontinue Zyprexa using a gradual taper. He actually has a mathematical formula to schedule dosage reductions. His recommendations to avoid withdrawal syndromes should make it easier.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 5:44:20
In reply to Re: How am I different to a drug addict?, posted by huxley on April 26, 2011, at 23:01:26
> It is an interesting comparrison that is for sure.
>
>
> I will get off Zyprexa, it's just a long and hellish road that I never needed to walk down and wouldn't had it of not been for trigger happy doctors and greedy salespeople.
>
> If I could get back to the state I was in before I tried any psych meds I would be greatful.
>
> Some may claim that it is merely the natural progression of my illness.. But I can say %99 that this is not the case for me. I have had my physical health destroyed by psych meds and I don't believe it has done a great deal for my mental health. Infact, it has destroyed my memory and motor capabilities which makes living in society and working very hard.
>
>
> huxley,
You wrote,[...off Zyprexa...a long and hellish road...if I could get back to the state...health destroyed by psych meds...destroyed my memory...].
There are several aspects that I have found that could help people get off mind-altering psychotropic drugs. Some I am prohibited by the owner of this site to post and also prohibited from posting here where you can find that information. I come here to save lives, not to ruin them. You want to go back where you think that you once belonged, I know a way.
But let it be with the administration here. My heart is in your desire to be free from this drug.
The first thing that I would like for you to know is as to what Zyprexa is. Zyprexa is a type of benzodiazepine. And benzodiazepines are addictive, are they not? So we have a goal in front of us to break any addiction if that be the case here. Now Zyprexa is the target of thousands of suits for damages from people that claim that the drug gave them diabetes and other conditions. The research is pretty convincing to me that that is the case, for the drug causes weight gain and the increase of triglycerides.
But there is much more to this. You see, a benzodiazepine has a [benzo} in the chemical structure. If we have a knowledge of what {benzene} is, this could help us to undertsnad what is goin' on in your nervous system.
Thousands of years ago there were people that used mind-altering substances to control others and to assasinate others. These people, were called sorcerers in English, which is a translation of the Greek word,{pharmakopeia}. Now the drugs came from plants and animals and there was oil that oozed from the ground.
The oil from the ground is where benzene comes from as well as phynol and phynyl and other related substanxces such as pyridazine which play a part in psychotropic drugs. I will not have a study here of organic chemistry unless it could help one to undertsnad what the drug manufactures are doing so as to help you.
Now benzene is a carcinogen. Benzene can be formed by heating wood as in a forest fire. Now in tobacco, a cigerette can produce benzene in the smoke from the heat. The non-smoking people in a room where there is a smoker then are subject to inhaling a known substance that can cause cancer. There is a point here, and that is to know the chemistry of benzene could be helpful for one to make a more informed decision as to take a drug that has benzene in it in some chemical way at the molecular level, which hen involves the nerves.
Now I am prohibited from posting here particular content concerning {nerve-agents}. I think that if one had a knowledge of that, their education could go further into what's goin' on in your nervous system when you take Zyprexa. Now even if you don't know, there is still a chemical process going on that the people who take this drug have posted about here and on other sites.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 20:04:29
In reply to Lou's response-part 1 » huxley, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 5:44:20
Lou sorry but you I feel you are mistaken as zyprexa is a atypical antipsychotic and is not a benzodiazapine. You might google both and see the pharmacal composition is very different for both meds. Benzos include valium, xanax, ativan, tranxene, Librium, ativan and others I'm sure I've forgotten. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 20:30:20
In reply to Re: Lou's response-part 1 » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 20:04:29
> Lou sorry but you I feel you are mistaken as zyprexa is a atypical antipsychotic and is not a benzodiazapine. You might google both and see the pharmacal composition is very different for both meds. Benzos include valium, xanax, ativan, tranxene, Librium, ativan and others I'm sure I've forgotten. Phillipa
Phillipa,
Zyprexa has in it's chemical structure a thineobenzodiazepine. It is a type of BZD in it's chemical structure, or one could say that the parts that combine to make a benzodiazepine are in the chemical structure of Zyprexa. Zyprexa has in its chemical structure a thineobenzodiazepine.
I think that it is important in my discussion here that this is presented to the one wanting to be free from this drug. This educatinal aspect of the composition of Zyprexa could play an important role later so I introduced it now.
Here is a web site that shows this about Zyprexa. It is not my intention to discuss molecular biology or organic chemistry here, but just to know what the constituants of the drug are.
Lou
http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB6755515.htm
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 20:52:42
In reply to Lou's reply - Zyprexa a type of benzodiazepine » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 20:30:20
> > Lou sorry but you I feel you are mistaken as zyprexa is a atypical antipsychotic and is not a benzodiazapine. You might google both and see the pharmacal composition is very different for both meds. Benzos include valium, xanax, ativan, tranxene, Librium, ativan and others I'm sure I've forgotten. Phillipa
>
> Phillipa,
> Zyprexa has in it's chemical structure a thineobenzodiazepine. It is a type of BZD in it's chemical structure, or one could say that the parts that combine to make a benzodiazepine are in the chemical structure of Zyprexa. Zyprexa has in its chemical structure a thineobenzodiazepine.
> I think that it is important in my discussion here that this is presented to the one wanting to be free from this drug. This educatinal aspect of the composition of Zyprexa could play an important role later so I introduced it now.
> Here is a web site that shows this about Zyprexa. It is not my intention to discuss molecular biology or organic chemistry here, but just to know what the constituants of the drug are.
> Lou
> http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB6755515.htm
>
> correction
Zyprexa is a thienobenzodiazepine, not a thineobenzodiazepine
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 21:54:47
In reply to Lou's correction- Zyprexa a type of benzodiazepine, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 20:52:42
I will google zyprexa differences between benzodiazepines see what I get. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 22:00:14
In reply to Lou's correction- Zyprexa a type of benzodiazepine, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 20:52:42
drug-information/thienobenzodiazepine-vs-benzodiazepine-50541
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 22:21:42
In reply to Lou's correction- Zyprexa a type of benzodiazepine, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2011, at 20:52:42
Put this in your browser. Sorry time to post ebay now getting late. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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