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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by hyperfocus on April 6, 2011, at 22:47:31
Last week I decided to add Risperdal to my combo to try to deal with the recurring, distracting thoughts that I have. Even though my mood is markedly improved since I've been on my current combo for the past couple of months (200mg amitriptyline + 25mg tianeptine) it's like there are these deep grooves in my mind that have been laid down that I find my internal focus traveling on when I'm trying to concentrate. Like I'd read for 5 minutes or be watching a Youtube video and then realize that I had stopped paying attention and was thinking about something (bad) which I had thought about at least a couple of thousands of times over the years that I had already resolved. Clearly this is not an ideal state to be in when you work with computers for a living. So basically I wanted the Risperdal to help me hyperfocus on important stuff I chose - not no-longer-important stuff I don't want to think about. And I knew from previous experience that Risperdal did not negatively affect my response to the other 2 meds - I'd be able to start and stop it and return to my current baseline easily.
So I started Risperdal and it did help. My focus and overall mood have increased significantly. I'm able to type this, for instance, in one go. If this improvement continues I'll be able to label this Risperdal experiment as a success and add .5mg Risperdal permanently to my meds.
The thing is not what's happening now but what happened last week. I should have started at a dose like .5mg but I'm impatient and tolerate most meds well and needed to know if it would work or not quickly. So I started at 1mg.
So it started helping - both with focus and overall mood and anxiety. But then I had some work stuff that didn't go as expected and we screwed up a presentation for a new client. And from that day my thoughts began spiraling downwards. And they didn't stop till I crashed into the trees and burst into flames. The best way I can describe what I felt like: it was as if somebody had turned the contrast knob all the way up on a black-and-white projection I had of my entire life. Everything was just laid out in stark detail and the conclusion was clear: It just wasn't good enough. I would never be good enough. With work or fun or friends or family or wife or kids or anything. God Himself had put his mark on me. This was the stark fact. I really had had enough. When my mood goes down I always eat a lot more but not this time. I didn't eat at all for 2 days and the days following that very little. It was very, very painful, beyond description really.
So I had the good sense to cut the Risperdal back to .5mg. And like I said I'm feeling much better. But something is just...different inside. I feel like I'm not going to forget the I pain felt and what I experienced.
In a novel called Flight of the Intruder about the Vietnam war, there's a horrific passage where a pilot dies trying to save another pilot. The doomed pilot's plane goes down but after the crash he manages to switch on his emergency radio and everyone participating in the rescue of the other pilot, including the other pilot himself, can hear the dying pilot...hear him die. And the narrator mentions that hearing the other guy's screams - a guy who lost his life trying to save him - hearing the guy's screams in the last few minutes of his life branded the other pilot inside for the rest of his life like never before. Like even though he was rescued and came through the war without a scratch, he would be different from that day.
It isn't as dramatic, but honestly it's sort of how I feel now. Like I came though the the other side of the Risperdal-induced suicidal state, and objectively everything with my illness is better, and I should be happy about that; but something inside me is just different. Like what I felt and thought about and saw for those days last week is burned inside of me and I can't be the same. I don't think in all the years I've been sick that I've ever been so far, far down in that pit. And I can't seem to forget it.
I'm not really sure what I'm trying to ask here, but has anybody ever had a similar experience? Like things got very very bad and something changed inside of you and you were sort of scared because it seems like your view of life shifted and everything is sort of different now? And you're not really sure about some things anymore?
Maybe it will pass - dissolve into my subconscious just like all the other acute depression episodes over the years. Maybe next week I'll be me again. Maybe I'm better inside. I really don't know.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 6, 2011, at 23:34:03
In reply to To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by hyperfocus on April 6, 2011, at 22:47:31
hyperfocus,
Absolutely. Yes. You described it. I am writing and not thinking this absolutely through, but....
Imo, it will pass, like all experience, but bad scares can leave marks (yea, okay, so I do have ptsd).
Have you been in this space before? Similar? (I don't know your history. SI = self-injury or suicidal ideation?)
Do you have a therapist? I wonder what the best approach would be. I feel talking about it with someone, not necessarily a therapist, but why not? Or someone who can handle it.
Like a bad trip, I feel psychic experiences are real in that they are experiences. However, like I tell my son about dreams, they are dreams. Context. Give yourself
and get someone to validate the context. You had a hyper-real, dysphoric psychic thought of significant duration. Drug induced.Now, to counter that takes calm muster.
You are not crashing and burning. You are not that pilot. You are here. You have enormous value that you might underestimate. You have been kind to me in the past, and it made a difference.
I've got to go now, but will check back later.
Big time hugs. You're o.k.
Posted by hyperfocus on April 7, 2011, at 0:17:45
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger » hyperfocus, posted by floatingbridge on April 6, 2011, at 23:34:03
thanks fb, I really appreciate the response. I've had a lot of suicidal ideation in the past. It's just never seemed so real or convincing before. Like I'm accustomed struggling with self-worth but this time I wasn't really struggling.
I guess it is sort of like a bad trip. It will pass eventually I guess and I'm not in any danger now. Just a bit too close to the event to shrug it off just yet.
Anyway thanks for your kind words. You've also helped me, now and in the past. I guess we all have to lean on each other and get through this.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 7, 2011, at 0:59:26
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger » floatingbridge, posted by hyperfocus on April 7, 2011, at 0:17:45
hp, glad to be here for you :)
I've had some bad drug reactions. Actually, one was my first of only two AP's, seroquel. The only dose (don't know how much; I was green and just home from my only MI hospitalization) and it was an intolerable feeling. I thought it would never pass, but it did. Not the nightmare you describe, but something maybe akin, like the world had been stripped of a protective covering that made it tolerable.
My (further) advice would be to be really gentle to yourself. I've had to forgo certain media input. A media diet :) of sorts. That's one way I cope. Sometimes more strictly adhered to than others. For example, I spared myself watching the twin towers topple over and over. I avoid certain books, even by authors I
might adore. We all have our ways.I also remember to hug my kid alot. My kid doesn't see me the way I can when I hit the skids, so I try his lenses on when I can remember.
I am sorry you went through that, and am glad you've regained your course.
It's good to reach out. Maybe you could find someone to speak to in person. Maybe posting is enough, too.
Take good care of yourself.
fb
Posted by B2chica on April 7, 2011, at 8:10:45
In reply to To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by hyperfocus on April 6, 2011, at 22:47:31
i have experienced this several times. each time i come through it i feel i can never ever go through that again. i feel exhausted, guilty almost ashamed to even be here. but then as time goes by and meds help i pull more out of the depression. i cant say i forget completely, but what i remember changes. it changes from the feelings above to more appreciation, more thankfulness, and less into what others are into (money, success, cars, clothes, etc). so if anything i feel a little more detached from my common man.
thats why 'thank God' there is babble. the people here. get it.
they've been to those depths, survived....and Know.
we understand. and we are Better for it.
best wishes
B2c.
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2011, at 11:35:42
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by B2chica on April 7, 2011, at 8:10:45
I feel it's a form of PTSD as the initials stand for it takes time to recover and eventually it recedes to the back of you memory as time goes by. My take anyway. Phillipa
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 7, 2011, at 11:51:16
In reply to To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by hyperfocus on April 6, 2011, at 22:47:31
You felt like a worthless person??
Sounds like a serious crash :-(
Sounds traumatic even, with the intensity of it all.
I hope you're telling your Pdoc all about it. (really, please do)
Take good care of yourself, take it easy, feel better.
-sleepy
(formerly sid)
Posted by mellow on April 8, 2011, at 14:23:06
In reply to To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by hyperfocus on April 6, 2011, at 22:47:31
My mania generally manifest itself in those type of thought behaviors or extreme thought blocking. I might try meditating or listening to music and two minutes later I'm thinking again about the suicidal thoughts or how I'm gonna end up in the psych ward again and lose my job, and lose my benefits, and my family will be worn out with me, and then I'll never be stable again....you see where I'm going. You described it so well with how you can't even watch a 5 minute youtube video. That is EXACTLY how I get.
Sometimes I believe I could be diagnosed with ADHD during these periods and its so frustrating I sometimes start crying and freaking out. I can't get anything done and I can't even sit down and relaxed b/c my head is moving so fast. One day I tried to drive to the gym and it took me thirty minutes because I kept getting so lost in my thoughts I was missing exits on the highway over and over.
To get to my point...my doctor and I have standing orders that my risperdal can go as high as 2 mg when this happens. Generally after about three weeks to a month of my body metabolizing that much antipsychotic I feel great. I just went through one of these episodes six weeks ago and I went from 0.5 mgs to 2 mgs. I feel great now and was even too scared to go back down when my doc suggested it yesterday. I combating weigh gain and sluggishness with a vegetarian diet, yoga and intense cardiovascular exercise.
They say antipsychotics can cause grey matter brain tissue loss...but they also say intense exercise can increase your brain volume so I think its worth it to try like 1-2mgs for like a month at night maybe with some magnesium citrate to get great sleep and get you stable. Your thoughts will calm down in my experience. Don't psych yourself out you are stronger than you think. The worst thing you can do is tinker too much. Historically I have watched people on babble tinker and tinker and fall to pieces. Pick a dose level and and stick with it for 4-6 weeks. You will find some clarity. Let the good days stack up one by one.
I wish you well!
mellow
Posted by floatingbridge on April 8, 2011, at 15:25:46
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by mellow on April 8, 2011, at 14:23:06
Mellow,
I found your post very helpful reading, even if it was not addressed to me--thanks.
(Before reading, I thought I was the only one to have gotten lost on freeways before in the same way :-o )
Your advice not to tinker, nor over-estimate is useful, too. I forget. (And forget.)
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on April 8, 2011, at 15:27:35
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger » mellow, posted by floatingbridge on April 8, 2011, at 15:25:46
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2011, at 21:06:34
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger » mellow, posted by floatingbridge on April 8, 2011, at 15:25:46
FB I also do the same a form of disassociation due to high stress levels. I found that the stick to something for four to six weeks very helpful. Phillipa ps so impatient to get there but where is there some place that doesn't exist????
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 8, 2011, at 22:02:31
In reply to To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by hyperfocus on April 6, 2011, at 22:47:31
How are you?
Posted by hyperfocus on April 8, 2011, at 23:46:29
In reply to Hey » hyperfocus, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 8, 2011, at 22:02:31
I'm ok, thanks for asking :). I'm feeling better with the Risperdal settling down. How are you? I haven't seen you posting at all the last two weeks or so.
Posted by hyperfocus on April 9, 2011, at 0:01:41
In reply to hp, hope you're well (nm) » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on April 8, 2011, at 15:27:35
I feel better fb, thanks for your concern. I'm starting to sort of process the whole thing and just trying to put in the past. It wasn't the memories of the whole experience, really, that shook me. I've had acute dysphoric states in the past that were painful, sometimes intense and lasted longer. It's not really about how painful the last time was - it's just those particular images and thoughts that found their way into my mind that I find disturbing and hard to put away. Like I never saw things that way and I didn't really know a place like that existed.
But I mean a lot of people on PB have probably experienced this at some point or another so I'm not alone. I'm glad I have people like you who care about me.
Posted by hyperfocus on April 9, 2011, at 0:15:07
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by mellow on April 8, 2011, at 14:23:06
Thanks for your response mellow. Yeah it can bring you to tears when you can't stop your mind from racing like that - I know exactly how you feel. That was the most distressing thing about my illness that finally drove me to seek help all those years ago. Like I had become so habituated to thinking about the bad stuff that happened to me and now I couldn't turn it off. If I did drive I'd probably have the same problems you and fb have.
But the Risperdal seems to be helping - I do really need to give it like a couple of weeks to make a decision. I am concerned about weight gain though, so I really need to stick to my workout plan.
Thanks for you well wishes - what's your diagnosis btw? Did you try anything else for the racing distracting thoughts?
Posted by hyperfocus on April 9, 2011, at 0:30:30
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2011, at 11:35:42
I honestly haven't found a doctor that could tell me exactly what's wrong with me. All my symptoms are connected and they all usually simultaneously get better or worsen. I have all the symptoms of C-PTSD; but a couple of them are sort of exaggerated. Each doctor I go to I'm only able to articulate and describe like 1 or 2 dimensions and then they decide that the other dimensions are outgrowths of the core ones. Like I tell them about the social phobia and paranoia or about the depression and the racing obsessive thoughts, or about the dissociation that started together with the SP but has become a separate entity entirely, or these acute dysphoric states when part of my own mind seems wholly focused on destroying itself. I can't figure out what's primary and what's secondary. The thing that has always puzzled me is that I'm able to sort of hold it together and describe what's happening to me but I can't seem to fix myself emotionally. Like my mind is split into 2 with one half observing andd taking notes and the other just convulsing with pain and anxiety and all the rest. I don't know if this is a result of the dissociation or is what caused the dissociation...it's all beyond me.
But I am getting better I think. Thanks for your concern.
Posted by hyperfocus on April 9, 2011, at 0:38:51
In reply to Re: To the depths of despair with Risperdal-SI trigger, posted by B2chica on April 7, 2011, at 8:10:45
> i have experienced this several times. each time i come through it i feel i can never ever go through that again.
Yeah that's one place I really don't want to go again. The images and feelings were just so...apocalyptic...I guess. Like it was the end of the world - my world specifically.
>i feel exhausted, guilty almost ashamed to even be here. but then as time goes by and meds help i pull more out of the depression. i cant say i forget completely, but what i remember changes. it changes from the feelings above to more appreciation, more thankfulness, and less into what others are into (money, success, cars, clothes, etc). so if anything i feel a little more detached from my common man.
I'm exactly the same. Like I was telling jane d and Deneb the other night, I've always had this belief that if I could just have one day - one day of a normal happy life - then it would have been worth it. Like I would wake up and go the library and read for a couple of hours straight, then I'd pickup my girlfriend and kiss her and hear her say she loves me and we'd go to a Strokes concert or a club or something and I wouldn't care that I was a really bad dancer, just so I could have fun with her. If I could get just that for ONE day then I'd be satisfied.
> thats why 'thank God' there is babble. the people here. get it.
> they've been to those depths, survived.
>
> ...and Know.
>
> we understand. and we are Better for it.
>I've always believed that too. Whether dead or dying or abandoned, PB is still the only place I can find people who understand this stuff.
best wishes to you too b2c.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 9, 2011, at 8:23:06
In reply to Re: Hey back » sleepygirl2, posted by hyperfocus on April 8, 2011, at 23:46:29
Good, I am glad :-). I am around. I don't post much on meds, but I look at posts.
I get such sedation from seroquel, but it helps bring down the intensity of everything. I can get soooooo anxious.
Take care hf :-)
Posted by floatingbridge on April 9, 2011, at 9:50:48
In reply to Re: getting there » floatingbridge, posted by hyperfocus on April 9, 2011, at 0:01:41
O.K. :)
Don't feel like you ever need to go it alone, yeah?
Warmly,
fb
This is the end of the thread.
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