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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by atypical on March 5, 2011, at 13:03:52
Anyone who's switched from the "brand" Nardil to Gavis Pharma's generic phenelzine have any comments/experiences to share? I'm going to stick with the brand for now.
I noticed that the filler ingredients for the brand and generic vary considerably. I have heard that Gavis' ingredient list is "more closer" to the original pre-2003 Nardil.
Posted by Phillipa on March 5, 2011, at 13:20:15
In reply to Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by atypical on March 5, 2011, at 13:03:52
That's what someone wrote me on it. We were discussing meds. Phillipa
Posted by lifelover on March 6, 2011, at 15:19:46
In reply to Re: Nardil: Brand vs. Generic » atypical, posted by Phillipa on March 5, 2011, at 13:20:15
I am also interested in hearing the difference between the two , as I myself will be starting nardil again in the fall. It seems like the Gavis version contains all of the ingredients in the the current nardil, maybe its other ingredients were the ones pfizer took out when they bought out parkdavis. I think that was the name of the company who made the old nardil. Im kinda stuck on which one I want to be on because the current nardil works very well for me, but it sounds like the Gavis version may be better.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 6, 2011, at 16:25:07
In reply to Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by atypical on March 5, 2011, at 13:03:52
>I have heard that Gavis' ingredient list is "more closer" to the original pre-2003 Nardil.
Interesting. Perhaps some will prefer the generic.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 10, 2011, at 12:14:19
In reply to Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by atypical on March 5, 2011, at 13:03:52
Yes, I am curious too for Nardil users who have used the new generic GAVIS Nardil. How does it compare to the brand name Pfizer stuff?
Posted by pedr on March 16, 2011, at 14:16:46
In reply to New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer, posted by Michael Bell on March 10, 2011, at 12:14:19
I've been taking the generic for 5 days now, which I would have thought is not long enough for anything other than immediate side-effects to manifest.
No difference that I can detect thus far.
The pills are a different shape, they're thicker/deeper than brand (picture the tablet lying on its circular surface. The generic is taller than brand) and to me their taste is milder.
One thing that shocked me is that brand was $150 and generic $120 - not much of a saving at all really. Gravis might be fishing to see what price saving people are willing to switch to generic for?
Posted by jedi on March 18, 2011, at 13:28:32
In reply to Re: New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer » Michael Bell, posted by pedr on March 16, 2011, at 14:16:46
Hi guys, I just started my generic Nardil after not being able to get it for a couple of months while Gavis was ramping up production. Most insurance companies are going to require using the generic, when available. I've fought them for years about medications that they say are equivalent and are not. With my insurance, an individual Lifewise policy, the price difference is huge. Brand is $150 per month. Generic is $15. I have to take my chances on the generic.
I've been on phenelzine sulfate(Nardil) for most of 12 years. I got through the formula change of 2003. I will get through this change. I'm just glad that Gavis saw an opportunity in this nitch market. I hope Pfizer continues to produce the brand. Just having one source, for the only medication that has ever worked for me, is very scary.
Having just started the new medication I have nothing to report on change in efficacy or side effects. Any change in MAO inhibition will take weeks to manifest. My side effects, at this point, are related to the degree of MAO inhibition in my body; I don't expect any changes for at least a few weeks. I can usually notice a change of side effects, MAO inhibition and my level of depression within a few weeks of a 15mg dosage change. I have been on the brand Nardil for so long I know exactly what to expect. I am currently stable at 60mg daily. 45mg reduces all side effects, but it does not provide enough MAO inhibition to keep my major depression at a comfortable ams length away. When I am going through a really hard time I will raise my dosage to 75mg or 90mg. This usually knocks back any major depression within a few weeks. However, the major side effects of insomnia, delayed orgasm, and carbohydrate cravings are much worse at the higher dosages. I have been on dosages as high as 120mg per day to knock back a really bad relapse.
For me, it is all related to the degree of MAO inhibition. The efficacy and the side effects. I will post an changes I feel with the new generic.
Best of luck to all,
Jedi
Posted by pedr on March 18, 2011, at 17:42:31
In reply to Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by atypical on March 5, 2011, at 13:03:52
I don't know if anyone else on generic has experienced this but my afternoon slump on Weds, Thu and today has been very intense. I've felt completely out-of-it and flat-out exhausted from 2-5pm each day. I've fallen asleep several times. Anyone else getting that on the generic?
BTW, not only does YMMV apply as always but I also have IBS-C and a bad cold, which could both easily be having an effect. That said, the sleepiness is very Nardil-y feeling though.
Posted by pedr on March 19, 2011, at 18:31:21
In reply to Re: Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by pedr on March 18, 2011, at 17:42:31
- oh, and I've gained 3 lb and hit my highest ever weight. And just when I thought the Nardil belly couldn't grow any further...
Posted by jedi on March 19, 2011, at 18:54:18
In reply to Re: Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by pedr on March 18, 2011, at 17:42:31
> I don't know if anyone else on generic has experienced this but my afternoon slump on Weds, Thu and today has been very intense. I've felt completely out-of-it and flat-out exhausted from 2-5pm each day. I've fallen asleep several times. Anyone else getting that on the generic?
>
> BTW, not only does YMMV apply as always but I also have IBS-C and a bad cold, which could both easily be having an effect. That said, the sleepiness is very Nardil-y feeling though.Boy, I hope the afternoon tiredness doesn't return. That is one side effect that went away years ago. When I first started Nardil, I could just not keep my eyes open between about 4pm and 6pm. I've beat back the Nardil and atypical depression weight gain through exercise and the occasional low card diet. I find no carbs will lead to a lot less carb cravings than some carbs. I initially gained about 110 pounds on Nardil. I've take off about 80 of that. Can't put it back on.
Best of Luck,
Jedi
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on March 28, 2011, at 20:11:57
In reply to Re: New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer » pedr, posted by jedi on March 18, 2011, at 13:28:32
It is possible to combine Nardil with nortriptyline or desipramine for extra antidepressant "kick"
The well known English psychiatrist William Sargent used to use this combo commonly for resistant depression in the 60's and 70's, and claimed that it actualy reduced the chance of a hypertensive crisis.
The only side effect of note was low blood pressure, which can be helped by flucortralone acetate 0.1mg /day (a steroid hormone that casues some retention of salt and fluid, thus preventing low BP)
Posted by pedr on March 28, 2011, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re: New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer » Michael Bell, posted by pedr on March 16, 2011, at 14:16:46
2.5 weeks in now and I can report:
- no major positive or negative changes
- possible moderate improvement in OCD symptoms
- possible overall improvement with depressed cognitions - less frequent and less disturbing
- increase in weight of approx 3lbs
- insomnia seems much reduced
- daytime sleepiness less frequent but still as powerful when it kicks inBear in mind that as always YMMV and that I've had my olds visiting (a positive), I've stopped taking Provigil (a positive) and have contracted pneumonia and bronchitis (somewhat negative) during this 2.5 week period and so the generic Nardil is not the sole variable by any means, unfortunately.
pete
Posted by jedi on March 29, 2011, at 1:19:51
In reply to Re: New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer, posted by jono_in_adelaide on March 28, 2011, at 20:11:57
Nortriptyline is fine mixed with Nardil under the right supervision. I've done it with no problem.
In my opinion, desipramine has too much of an effect on serotonin to be used safely with Nardil. Maybe under very expert care, but serotonin syndrome is not to be played with.
Be Well,
Jedi
> It is possible to combine Nardil with nortriptyline or desipramine for extra antidepressant "kick"
>
> The well known English psychiatrist William Sargent used to use this combo commonly for resistant depression in the 60's and 70's, and claimed that it actualy reduced the chance of a hypertensive crisis.
>
> The only side effect of note was low blood pressure, which can be helped by flucortralone acetate 0.1mg /day (a steroid hormone that casues some retention of salt and fluid, thus preventing low BP)
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on March 29, 2011, at 2:50:07
In reply to Re: New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer » jono_in_adelaide, posted by jedi on March 29, 2011, at 1:19:51
I stand to be corrected, but i thought desipramine was more selective for noradrenalin than nortriptyline was?
Anyway, the fact remains, that a TCA can safely be combined with an MAOI if you do it right
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2011, at 13:42:21
In reply to Re: New GAVIS Nardil vs. Pfizer, posted by jono_in_adelaide on March 29, 2011, at 2:50:07
>...i thought desipramine was more selective for noradrenaline than nortriptyline was?
It is, yes. Desipramine is a very selective NRI. Nortriptyline is moderately selective.
Posted by redcard1981 on July 14, 2012, at 17:48:27
In reply to Re: Nardil: Brand vs. Generic, posted by lifelover on March 6, 2011, at 15:19:46
I think the Gavis Nardil is better than the Pfizer. You can order it for next day delivery from Target's warehouse to the local Target pharmacy. The price is good at around $80 for 120 tabs.
This is the end of the thread.
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