![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 21:56:34
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2011, at 21:45:23
No. Sleep study for brain wave abnormalities. You know, sleep architecture. I don't think I hit the right spots long enough. Ordered by the rheumy. Only thing he did. Relates to a dx of chronic pain or fibromyalgia. See, I slip all dx cracks. Ha. Ha.
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2011, at 22:01:42
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 21:56:34
FB I think I slip also!!!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 22:15:20
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2011, at 22:01:42
Can we start a support group...?
:o)
Hugs!
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2011, at 22:32:23
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 22:15:20
FB don't laugh was thinking about a facebook one seriously today? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 23:56:36
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2011, at 22:32:23
Laughing through frustration....
Sign me on :(
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2011, at 0:01:53
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 23:56:36
Not tomorrow I saw a place on there to start a group don't know what it entails? Love Phillipa ps glad you got a laugh!!!
Posted by conundrum on February 9, 2011, at 14:59:19
In reply to do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's?, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 1:17:53
> I realize I have no idea. Out of the frying pan into the fire?
>
> Tapering cymbalta, I feel a kind of clarity. I like it.
>
> (I am taking Lyrica. Hopefully it will help pain, but it cuts anxiety.)
>
> So does emsam give anyone brain fog?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Very curious,
>
> fb
I hope ace or someone can reply to this. I really think it depends on the person. I've read about parnate and nardil on askapatient.com and revolution health as well as forums like this one and it seems for some there is a positive improvement and for some negative. I think often times the negative effects of MAOIs come from the insomnia they can cause.One thing I hear time and again with Nardil and Parnate is that it does not have SSRI side effects, so maybe you will not feel so muddled on an MAOI.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2011, at 15:28:36
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 9, 2011, at 14:59:19
> I hope ace or someone can reply to this. I really think it depends on the person. I've read about parnate and nardil on askapatient.com and revolution health as well as forums like this one and it seems for some there is a positive improvement and for some negative. I think often times the negative effects of MAOIs come from the insomnia they can
cause.
>
> One thing I hear time and again with Nardil and Parnate is that it does not
have SSRI side effects, so maybe you will not feel so muddled on an MAOI.
>
Man, I hope so. I don't want to be on an ssri/snri again at this point. I'm wondering what I got out of them all those years.In an attempt to be balanced, I do remember having very positive results with Effexor and with Wellbutrin (the latter in a different class); but not together.
The Lyrica is helping my mood quite a bit after the brain smog I experienced on Cymbalta. I'm sure my current idea of clarity is relative and compromised by now....
I'm not sure emsam is next--that I will need it. We'll see.
I don't think Lyrica alone will work as well for pain (as the Cymbalta) and my physiatrist seems hell bent on getting me off norco. (I take 10-30mg per day.) Cripes.
And then there's that need to have an ssri as if it were a vitamin. I feel my
current pdoc is open to making decicions guided by observations first and pharma pamphlets last.Grumble, grumble.
Thanks Conundrum. PB is a little quiet, yes?
fb
Posted by conundrum on February 9, 2011, at 16:06:32
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's?, posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2011, at 15:28:36
> In an attempt to be balanced, I do remember having very positive results with Effexor and with Wellbutrin (the latter in a different class); but not together.They didn't work together or you never tried them together. I found Pristiq stimulating as well, but not very effective.
I think for serious depression EMSAM is a waste of time. If you feel that you can wait it out and have it maybe not work, I'd give it a shot, but for me, I'd like to go right to Nardil or Parnate.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2011, at 17:07:59
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 9, 2011, at 16:06:32
Conundrum,
If you don't hit the target on your prozac and B12, you anticipate parnate or nardil?
(And I did not take Wellbutrin and effexor together; each worked relatively well at different times.)
Well, I wish you luck always.
peace,
fb
Posted by Conundrum on February 9, 2011, at 20:53:21
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2011, at 17:07:59
Posted by Conundrum on February 11, 2011, at 11:58:44
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2011, at 17:07:59
My new pdoc wants to try this prozac + adderall combo for a month. Then try cymbalta/remeron or cymbalta/DA agonist. He said he did't want to hold off too long on an MAOI since there is a family history of an MAOI helping.
> Conundrum,
>
> If you don't hit the target on your prozac and B12, you anticipate parnate or nardil?
>
> (And I did not take Wellbutrin and effexor together; each worked relatively well at different times.)
>
> Well, I wish you luck always.
>
> peace,
>
> fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 11, 2011, at 12:21:59
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by Conundrum on February 11, 2011, at 11:58:44
> My new pdoc wants to try this prozac + adderall combo for a month. Then try cymbalta/remeron or cymbalta/DA agonist. He said he did't want to hold off too long on an MAOI since there is a family history of an MAOI helping.
>
>Sounds like you have a good doc. Lets us know how it's going, will you?
Very best of luck.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 11, 2011, at 21:44:54
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by Conundrum on February 11, 2011, at 11:58:44
Posted by jedi on February 12, 2011, at 1:36:19
In reply to do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's?, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2011, at 1:17:53
Hi FB,
I've been on Nardil for most of the past 12 years. I have been off of it a half dozen times for other drug trials and just attempts to stop the major side effects. For me those are insomnia, delayed orgasm and weight gain. The only real success I've had for my major atypical depression and social anxiety is with Nardil. At this point, I am a lifer unless there is a huge breakthrough in psychopharmacology.As far as brain fog on Nardil, it is so hard to separate my residual dysthymia symptoms and the side effects of the medication. I have also been a long term user of clonazepam, which I blame for much of the word finding and CRS (Can't Remember Sh*t) symptoms. I have recently tapered the clonazepam from 2mg to .5mg, with the goal of quitting completely in a couple of months. Clonazepam really augments Nardil well for my social anxiety, but I'm tired of having to have Google at my side for any random access memory. Just a direct wired little 64GB chip like in an I-Pad would probably do the job! I guess I probably won't be around long enough to see that little piece of technology.
When I am feeling good, 60mg of Nardil does the job for me. Sometimes, during especially bad times, I have to take it up to 90mg. The side effects of Nardil for me are much less at 60mg than 90mg. Again, it is so difficult to separate the depression symptoms from the drug side effects.
I know I was so much more productive before I was hit with the major atypical depression at 40 years of age. I have had the dysthymia and social anxiety since my teenage years, but when the major depression hit, Nardil was the only medication that helped me. I have been on at least 45 different combinations of psychotropic medications.
So I guess, for me, taking Nardil is better than lying in bed all day with major depression. If I could quit and not fall back into the black hole, of course I would. For me the side effects of the medication are the lesser of two evils.
Be Well,
Jedi
Posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 12:55:09
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by jedi on February 12, 2011, at 1:36:19
Jedi! Nice to see you :)
Thanks for your reply. I have all the above s/e's you describe, having been a long time xanax user (one year on klonopin). About in the range you describe or less.
Since tapering cymbalta (I'm at less than 10mgs), well, I've been on ssri/snri non-
stop. My mind seems clearer--though word recall hasn't improved.The only thing that cut brain fog for me is dexedrine. Which will be a no-no on a Maoi. Soooooo. I'm a hoping for less fog....
My dx at the hospital (my only visit) was social phobia (besides MDD). I did rounds of cbt with a very good therapist. He finally sent me down the hall to see if the dbt folks could help. Social anxiety, I don't know; is it hardwired for some?
Thanks, Jedi. Btw, I'm glad you have something that is working for you. That's true grace.
fb
Posted by jedi on February 12, 2011, at 14:02:50
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » jedi, posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 12:55:09
Hi FB,
I'm not sure about the social anxiety being hardwired. I haven't studied it that much. I do know that I have had it since my early teens and it went way beyond shyness. I'm sure I was predisposed to the illness since the anxiety and depression plus alcoholism and drug abuse are in both sides of my extended family.Some of my social anxiety is probably related to very high parental expectations and thus high expectations placed on myself. If I got an A- in school, it was "Why didn't you get an A?" That, along with some pretty severe acne at the start of puberty lead to a very socially insecure teenager and the start of my social anxiety.
I really wish I could have gotten that treated earlier. I think that social anxiety affects all aspects of your life. I believe it is under recognized and under treated.
Good Luck FB,
Jedi
Posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 14:42:26
In reply to Re: A sidetrack on social anxiety. » floatingbridge, posted by jedi on February 12, 2011, at 14:02:50
I think 'hard wired' is overstated. Predisposed, yeah.
My family was very dysfunctional to the point of being the laughing stock of our neighborhood. Freaks. Religious nuts. I think perhaps dear dad was borderline in certain respects. I was depressed, dysthymic from maybe seven on. School was a twelve year trial. Perfectionism in
my family looked like whatever my dad
did or didn't like that moment. We were given no guidance in outside world functioning, like school. My mom was agoraphobic and obese (due largely to endocrine issuses I believe).By the time I 'entered the world', I really had no clue how to function socially, or how the world worked.
Thank you for sharing, Jedi. I like to hear the story behind the PB issues. You're a great presence here, at least for me. I'd love to grab a timeship back to my high school and just, I don't know, make friends with all the secret suffering and struggling kids I went to school with. I was so busy with my own sh*t, I thought everyone else had it made :(
Nice talking with you Jedi. Keep that Nardil working!
fb
Posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2011, at 20:10:46
In reply to Re: A sidetrack on social anxiety. » jedi, posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 14:42:26
FB Jedi is a sweetheart and very knowledgeable about meds. He seriously knows a lot. Love Phillipa
Posted by jedi on February 13, 2011, at 0:23:33
In reply to Re: A sidetrack on social anxiety. » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2011, at 20:10:46
> FB Jedi is a sweetheart and very knowledgeable about meds. He seriously knows a lot. Love Phillipa
Phillipa,
You are the sweetheart and I appreciate the compliment. Us people with atypical depression respond very favorably to those kind of things!
Love,
Jedi
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2011, at 19:05:53
In reply to Re: A sidetrack on social anxiety. » Phillipa, posted by jedi on February 13, 2011, at 0:23:33
Jedi it's so true about you. Magnificent person to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by former poster on February 20, 2011, at 18:46:23
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 9, 2011, at 14:59:19
Brain fog..? Not exactly. Nardil made it difficult to retain anything I read when I was in school. Even if the reading was interesting. I also play guitar & piano and more effort was needed to memorize a song from sheet music. I'm noticing the same with Emsam. I wonder if it could be caused by lack of sleep that the MAOI's cause. I piloted a plane many hours on Nardil. I made some amazing maneuvers and some emergency landings. I noticed I took more risks while on it.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 19:45:20
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » conundrum, posted by former poster on February 20, 2011, at 18:46:23
fm, may I ask how the emsam is going for you? You have probably figured that is my next step. However, I deal with some chronic pain and fatigue which changes my playing field.
You're welcome to babblemail if you like.
thanks,
fb
I never thought about whether a pilot, like of the plane I was on :) was depressed or not. Not that your post suggests airline flight.
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on March 2, 2011, at 21:47:37
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's? » former poster, posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 19:45:20
word retrieval is becoming an increasing problem on the Parnate. That and bouts of staring into nothingness.
Posted by pedr on March 11, 2011, at 17:17:51
In reply to Re: do maoi's cause brain fog like ssri's + snri's?, posted by Elanor Roosevelt on March 2, 2011, at 21:47:37
brain fog of sorts in that I often feel mellow and fuzzy and tired (which initially was the best feeling I'd experienced in about 12 years). Focusing on a task is trickier and applying rational reasoning is hard. Not impossible, like some med experiences I've had, but certainly not easy.
pete
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.