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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 16:13:19
Normal sleep is so darn hard for me to get!
It seems that drug induced sleep will probably be the best I can ever get.
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on December 14, 2010, at 18:14:50
In reply to Normal sleep, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 16:13:19
I guess Amitriptyline is not helping much.
Do feel tired and less functional because of it?
Posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 18:56:16
In reply to Re: Normal sleep, posted by morgan miller on December 14, 2010, at 18:14:50
I honestly don't know anymore.
Posted by Hombre on December 14, 2010, at 20:07:24
In reply to Re: Normal sleep, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 18:56:16
> I honestly don't know anymore.
That can actually be a good place to start from.
Posted by Conundrum on December 14, 2010, at 20:50:49
In reply to Normal sleep, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 16:13:19
> Normal sleep is so darn hard for me to get!
>
> It seems that drug induced sleep will probably be the best I can ever get.
>
> LinkadgeAre the medications still helping?
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2010, at 22:34:22
In reply to Re: Normal sleep, posted by Conundrum on December 14, 2010, at 20:50:49
For some strange reason no problems sleeping no but still taking benzos. Not sure whether to cut down more on xanax or valium first. Valium is 5mg and xanax lmg. I keep wondering if the reason I don't feel half normal till late in day is the elimination of xanax. Link when under stress sleep is important. So do what is best till stress less. Phillipa
Posted by medamorphosis on December 15, 2010, at 0:05:01
In reply to Normal sleep, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 16:13:19
> Normal sleep is so darn hard for me to get!
>
> It seems that drug induced sleep will probably be the best I can ever get.
>
> LinkadgeHi mate. Know exactly how you feel. But follow my post above about Valdoxan. I will add my progress as I go, and babblemail any specifics. I like the fact it seems to 'balance' carcadian rythms from the melatonon agonist actions.
Posted by SLS on December 15, 2010, at 4:54:29
In reply to Re: Normal sleep » linkadge, posted by medamorphosis on December 15, 2010, at 0:05:01
Hi.
> Hi mate. Know exactly how you feel. But follow my post above about Valdoxan. I will add my progress as I go, and babblemail any specifics. I like the fact it seems to 'balance' carcadian rythms from the melatonon agonist actions.
A friend of mine had been an ultra-rapid cycler and possibly bipolar II. The phase changes for him worked like clockwork such that he was able to keep a calendar of his regular cycling and plan future events around it. This had been going on for years without deviation. The addition of Valdoxan to his treatment regime completely abolished the cycle within two weeks. He has been doing well for 3 or 4 months.
There is plenty of suggestions made in the medical literature that establishes a relationship between circadian rhythms and the presentation of MDD or BD. My guess is that circadian rhythms play a more significant role in the precipitation or persistence in BD than MDD. I imagine this is indicative of the properties of lithium known to affect the cascade of events that are contributory to the regulation of circadian rhythms. The stimulation of melatonin M1 and M2 receptors have been demonstrated to be necessary for an antidepressant effect to manifest by Valdoxan. However, if one removes the 5-HT2c receptor antagonism pharmacologically, the antidepressant effect disappears. Both melatonergic and serotonergic manipulation are necessary for Valdoxan to produce a therapeutic response.
- Scott
Posted by 49er on December 15, 2010, at 7:24:35
In reply to Normal sleep, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2010, at 16:13:19
> Normal sleep is so darn hard for me to get!
>
> It seems that drug induced sleep will probably be the best I can ever get.
>
> LinkadgeHi Linkage,
I so relate to that statement even though I am off meds. I hate to admit it but if I thought there was a med that was sleep restorative, I would greatly consider it.
As an FYI, I have had moderate success with a coral calcium product from Trace Minerals. If I can stay awake after dinner, which is a big fat if, it will put me to sleep right away. I still don't get much but at least it seems to be somewhat restorative.
Don't know if it would work as well if you're on meds but I wanted to mention it.
I hope things improve for you.
Posted by medamorphosis on December 15, 2010, at 20:40:04
In reply to Re: Normal sleep » medamorphosis, posted by SLS on December 15, 2010, at 4:54:29
> Hi.
>
> > Hi mate. Know exactly how you feel. But follow my post above about Valdoxan. I will add my progress as I go, and babblemail any specifics. I like the fact it seems to 'balance' carcadian rythms from the melatonon agonist actions.
>
> A friend of mine had been an ultra-rapid cycler and possibly bipolar II. The phase changes for him worked like clockwork such that he was able to keep a calendar of his regular cycling and plan future events around it. This had been going on for years without deviation. The addition of Valdoxan to his treatment regime completely abolished the cycle within two weeks. He has been doing well for 3 or 4 months.
>
> There is plenty of suggestions made in the medical literature that establishes a relationship between circadian rhythms and the presentation of MDD or BD. My guess is that circadian rhythms play a more significant role in the precipitation or persistence in BD than MDD. I imagine this is indicative of the properties of lithium known to affect the cascade of events that are contributory to the regulation of circadian rhythms. The stimulation of melatonin M1 and M2 receptors have been demonstrated to be necessary for an antidepressant effect to manifest by Valdoxan. However, if one removes the 5-HT2c receptor antagonism pharmacologically, the antidepressant effect disappears. Both melatonergic and serotonergic manipulation are necessary for Valdoxan to produce a therapeutic response.
>
>
> - ScottJeez you know ur stuff! As many others do on this sight. Glad I came back :)
Posted by linkadge on December 18, 2010, at 7:49:16
In reply to Re: Normal sleep » medamorphosis, posted by SLS on December 15, 2010, at 4:54:29
>However, if one removes the 5-HT2c receptor >antagonism pharmacologically, the antidepressant >effect disappears. Both melatonergic and >serotonergic manipulation are necessary for >Valdoxan to produce a therapeutic response.
Personally, I think this assertion could be a bit biased. Of course the makers of valdoxan want to establish that their medication has some key property that cannot be replicated by OTC melatonin.
Linkadge
Posted by medamorphosis on December 18, 2010, at 9:11:33
In reply to Re: Normal sleep » SLS, posted by linkadge on December 18, 2010, at 7:49:16
> Personally, I think this assertion could be a bit biased. Of course the makers of valdoxan want to establish that their medication has some key property that cannot be replicated by OTC melatonin.
>
> Linkadge
>
See what you're saying. Yet I still think its good there's a new drug on the market with 'posible' theraputic effect. New drugs just dont come through quick enough at the moment. There must be stacks of possible agents waiting to be tested.med
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:54:06
In reply to Re: Normal sleep » linkadge, posted by medamorphosis on December 18, 2010, at 9:11:33
I would like to try valdoxan when it becomes otherwise available.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on December 19, 2010, at 19:41:25
In reply to Re: Normal sleep » SLS, posted by linkadge on December 18, 2010, at 7:49:16
Hi Linkadge.
> >However, if one removes the 5-HT2c receptor >antagonism pharmacologically, the antidepressant >effect disappears. Both melatonergic and >serotonergic manipulation are necessary for >Valdoxan to produce a therapeutic response.
>
> Personally, I think this assertion could be a bit biased. Of course the makers of valdoxan want to establish that their medication has some key property that cannot be replicated by OTC melatonin.
>
> Linkadge
Agomelatine (Valdoxan) has been shown to stimulate melatonin M1 and M2 receptors, and to block serotonin 5-HT2c receptors.In a rather elegant experiment, depressed subjects were treated with agomelatine. For those who responded favorably to the drug, two experiments were conducted while the subjects were in a euthymic state. Using various neurochemical probes, it was reported that the antidepressant response to agomelatine disappeared with the addition of melatonin M1 and M2 receptor antagonists. Additionally, the antidepressant effect of the drug disappeared with the addition of serotonin 5-HT2c receptor agonists. These results suggest that melatonin agonism and serotonin 5-HT2c antagonism are both necessary for agomelatine to exert its antidepressant effect.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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