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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 65. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
Today in all seriousness was told by pharmacist that my brain is damaged beyound repair. We were discussing the bioidenticals and he convince me that they are not good for me at age 65. Then we got into my med history all pdoc prescribed. As at age 24 first major painic attack given miltown 400mg and valium 5mg three times a day and told 5 beers or wine a night was fine. For about two years took the miltown then just stopped it no withdrawal continued with valium and drinking as felt great and was high functioning raising three kids running own aerobic business, going to RN school, going through divorce. I was fine. Not until prozac came out was an ad offered to me which I couldn't tolerate after three days ditched. And continue on low dose to me benzos and as different ones came out just switched over to another. Then bam thyroid at menopause and diagnosed with lymes treated with antibiotic for over two years. During this period benzos high and chloral hydrate up to 20cc's Added. I eventually gave up the choral hydrate and didn't drink when on it. Haven't had a drink in over 15 years. Was given most of the ads which didn't work but for first paxil l0mg with lopressor 25mg and benozos and beer. Back to work and two years later stopped the paxil. Almost totally off benzos many times. Now here I sit down to 5mg of valium, .75 xanax and 50mg of luvox and 5mg lexapro when he told me this today. I'm literally sick as feel like death as always inner anxiety I hide, and fear of being alone. So if the brain is damaged at my age is there any hope for me or is this it? Seriously don't know what to do or not do. Benzos just make me tired now but anxiety remains. IF only I'd known. Well don't expect any responses but I typed it out. Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on December 1, 2010, at 21:10:14
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
With all due respect, Phillipa, how can a pharmacist objectively know anything about the state of your brain? Did you show him images? If so, is he trained in reading them? Truly, I wouldn't worry about it at all.
gg
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 21:52:46
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on December 1, 2010, at 21:10:14
gg seriously you feel he could be wrong? I'm so suggestive and at my wits end. And here I am trying to fix things taking the lexapro as looking at the cost was what I needed to know. And seriously thanks for responding. I do need some hope. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on December 1, 2010, at 23:04:10
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
Phillipa,
As gardenergirl said, I wouldn't worry too much about what your pharmacist told you. I don't know what prompted your pharmacist to say what he said, but I would guess that he was probably making an educated guess about the brain damage based on some of the symptoms that you may have reported to him. I think, in my non-professional opinion, that there's a possibility that he could be right, but I also don't think that he can say with 100 percent certainty what's going on in your brain without being privy to the results of some sort of scan. I wouldn't give up all hope of being successfully treated for your anxiety because of what your pharmacist told you.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2010, at 0:16:46
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Tomatheus on December 1, 2010, at 23:04:10
Thanks so you think this lexapro can work or wasting my time and money? I did just have a brain MRI done as no taste and smell for 7 years. I have a cassette of my brain here but no idea how to interpret it. ENT ordered it and said never any taste and smell again. As for the pharmacist we started with discussing bioidentical compounded hormones and whether should keep taking then showed him the script for lexapro and from there we discussed my med history. He just felt since took all the benzos that my brain doesn't act with ad's like a brain that didn't take benzos for 40 years and that as a consequence ad's don't work and the benzos either. Phillipa
Posted by orbital on December 2, 2010, at 3:06:46
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
P. don't freak out. Your pharmacist's theory is absolutely unfounded, it makes *no* sense whatsoever. It's pretty outrageous.
Have you considered tweaking your meds (benzos), to manage the anxiety you're feeling right now? Can you contact a proper doctor to get some reassurance and guidance?
I'm very sorry you're suffering right now. Please take care of yourself.
> Today in all seriousness was told by pharmacist that my brain is damaged beyound repair. We were discussing the bioidenticals and he convince me that they are not good for me at age 65. Then we got into my med history all pdoc prescribed. As at age 24 first major painic attack given miltown 400mg and valium 5mg three times a day and told 5 beers or wine a night was fine. For about two years took the miltown then just stopped it no withdrawal continued with valium and drinking as felt great and was high functioning raising three kids running own aerobic business, going to RN school, going through divorce. I was fine. Not until prozac came out was an ad offered to me which I couldn't tolerate after three days ditched. And continue on low dose to me benzos and as different ones came out just switched over to another. Then bam thyroid at menopause and diagnosed with lymes treated with antibiotic for over two years. During this period benzos high and chloral hydrate up to 20cc's Added. I eventually gave up the choral hydrate and didn't drink when on it. Haven't had a drink in over 15 years. Was given most of the ads which didn't work but for first paxil l0mg with lopressor 25mg and benozos and beer. Back to work and two years later stopped the paxil. Almost totally off benzos many times. Now here I sit down to 5mg of valium, .75 xanax and 50mg of luvox and 5mg lexapro when he told me this today. I'm literally sick as feel like death as always inner anxiety I hide, and fear of being alone. So if the brain is damaged at my age is there any hope for me or is this it? Seriously don't know what to do or not do. Benzos just make me tired now but anxiety remains. IF only I'd known. Well don't expect any responses but I typed it out. Phillipa
Posted by Hombre on December 2, 2010, at 3:58:44
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
Ugh...the first thing I thought was that the pharmacist has no basis for saying that. And even were it to be true, the brain is continually changing and adapting, and remodeling. Continue to stay active, challenge yourself mentally, and soothe yourself emotionally. The words were unnecessary and harsh, and should be allowed to pass out of your mind in time.
BTW, have you tried low-dose lithium carbonate or lithium orotate? Supposed to have neuroprotective/neurogenerative effects. Although lithium as mood stabilizer didn't work for me (too flattening), I'm considering a trial of lithium orotate just to see what happens...and as a possible treatment for a friend's anxiety.
Posted by Ron Hill on December 2, 2010, at 6:02:02
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
Jan,
I agree. Listen to your p-doc, not the #$%@&* pharmacist!
Luv ya. Be well my friend.
-- Ron
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 2, 2010, at 9:24:28
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
what's with pharmacists and hating psych drugs? Not the first case I've heard of a pharmacist knocking the psychiatric meds (not that the meds are that great, or always used appropriately, but..still...)
Anyway, I wouldn't worried about it. First of all, she or he obviously has some kind of anti-psych agenda here. Secondly, just assume that its true, and you have some irreparable brain damage. So what? You're still functioning, aren't you? No tardive dyskinesia, no cognitive impairment, no sudden drop in IQ...
I do think you should give up the antidepressants, though. I'm obviously not a doctor, so feel free to reject my advice (I won't feel hurt), but it seems like they're causing more problems than they're worth. Besides, they're really good for moderate-to-severe depression, when the patient could do with some emotional numbing to help deal with stuff. You seem more like you just need some tranquilizers, maybe some supplements.
Good luck.
Posted by jeaner on December 2, 2010, at 9:31:01
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
I can understand your concern for what he said.We are looking for help and look up to doctors or people in the health care profession. To have one of them say there is no hope is devastating. That was not only wrong of him to say such a thing it was cruel. Our bodies can heal we are growing new cells every day. I get so angry at people sometimes. I used to get terrible panic attacks out of the blue. They started in my teens. I suffered till I was in my 30's with them. I started b complex and they are gone for the most part. I very rarely have any problem with that.It's the b6 that helps ,but all the b's work together with magnesium. Maybe you could ask your doctor about trying some. If you google it there is alot of info on b6 and panic anxiety.I believe that it would be much better for everyone to be able to use natural products for health but we do what we have to do to be well. I had a doc tell me once he doesn't cure people he heals them. He said take a pickle out of the cure and it goes bad. Thats true. We need to do our best to find what we need to heal.Remember the pharmacist is not God so he does not have the last say.
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2010, at 10:37:17
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by jeaner on December 2, 2010, at 9:31:01
To all I really didn't expect any supportive posts. I sincerly mean that. Someone mentioned functioning. Well I go through the motions without trying to feel as I have been hurt so many times by both family and elsewhere. My pdoc said eventually we reach a point where the brain can't handle any more and we kind of snap. She said this in reguards to a conversation we had on me asking how and why could I take care of three kids, run a business, go to nursing school and divorce and feel good. She said that eventually you can't and that is what happened to me. See I've had my pup look at me for three years like I'm dying. I have felt the same and it scares me. Often others say take this med or that med or see this doc or that doc and I can't as have no money. Not only that I'm terrified to even pick up the phone and make a phone call. The breaking stone for me with physical stuff was hearing I had osteoporosis and would fall, break a hip and die in a year. Plus then got fired by a doc that wanted me to get reclast infusion cause asked questions about it, then the controversy on bioidenticals. And then benzos now making me tired instead of wanting to increase them I just want to stop everything and go to sleep to avoid controversy well really fighting in real life realationships. I feel no doc can help me. It's me and I've lost who I am. And going to bed at 3 doesn't help just up and already dreading the few hours the sun will be up. I totally depend on my husband as I'm terrified of aloneness and he hates it and me. I better be quiet now and eat breakfast. Sarcastically said " oh joy another meal I can't taste". And seriously not feeling sorry for me sorry for those around me. I need to more not living up to my standards or the ones my family is used to. Thanks for listening. I guess cause I'm blasting me it's okay so won't worry about being blocked. Again anyone with any ideas please write. I'm totally out of them. My head spins should I do this or that or this or that til I can't think at all and am so tired. Love Phillipa
Posted by merpmerp on December 2, 2010, at 10:42:34
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » Phillipa, posted by orbital on December 2, 2010, at 3:06:46
> P. don't freak out. Your pharmacist's theory is absolutely unfounded, it makes *no* sense whatsoever. It's pretty outrageous.
I agree. The word "outrageous" came to my mind too. This pharmacist was completely unprofessional and had no business saying that. I believe the newest research shows that the brain continues to change and form new neurons throughout life (albeit slowly) so there is always hope that it will improve. You're fine.As far as Lexapro I think it's worth a shot, at a low dose anyway to try and avoid adverse effects like the ones I've described elsewhere. It's supposed to be great for anxiety. The jury's still out on whether this low dose will work for me long term but I am feeling fantastically better so I hope my experience gives you a little hope. :)
Posted by rculater on December 2, 2010, at 11:02:31
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by merpmerp on December 2, 2010, at 10:42:34
Forget it. You should report the pharmacist for giving a mis diagnosis based on ......nothing.
and talking bs.
Posted by bleauberry on December 2, 2010, at 11:31:56
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
Absurd. Ludicrous. Ridiculous. Arrogant. Ignorant.
What is the world's greatest brain expert doing working in a pharmacy? Come on.
People bedbound on the brink of death...nervous system damage clearly beyond repair...20 meds....are up discarding their canes and meds and going back to work after a few months of LDN.
There is not a single person on the planet that can claim what the pharmacist claimed.
That was a rather cruel arrogant ignorant thing for someone to say to you. I mean, what, does the person get jollies out of removing hope from someone's life? The person obviously has not a clue....he/she was dealing with a psych patient....which means suicide risk is higher than normal....which means the last thing you want to do as a professional is discourage the patient. Especially when the discouragement comes from completely unfounded self opinions.
Maybe the pharmacist has a thing against psych drugs, I dunno. Regardless, it is not his/her place to discuss those opinions with customers and seems to me to be some kind of breech of professionalism. That "might" be a kind of conversation that could occur between a doctor and a patient in a trusting relationship....but even then, is totally opinionated and not substantiated by any proof or fact....but for a mere bottle stuffer in a pharmacy to say that is, wow. A hungry lawyer could probably get that pharmacist sued.
I feel some 4 letter words coming on, so, enuf.
But to reiterate....stories abound on TV, in the news every day, in magazines, journals, and the internet....of people who were given up for dead who recovered miraculously when given the proper treatment.
Posted by bleauberry on December 2, 2010, at 11:58:26
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
Phillipa, here's a little homework assignment. Go back to the pharmacist and with a polite curious smile on your face ask him/her politely:
1. What part of my brain is damaged? Be specific. It matters. I mean, are we talking tissue, neurons, receptors, dendrites, fatty tissue, left side, right side, prefrontal cortex, blood vessels, ??? If he/she KNOWS it's damaged than obviously he/she knows WHAT is damaged right? Otherwise such a statement could never be made.
2. How was it damaged? By what mechanism? Which drug did it? How?
3. Why is it not repairable?
4. Why is it that a stroke victim can regain brain activity that was damaged, but you can't?
5. How does the pharmacist differentiate between damage that was done from disease/genetics versus damage done from meds? That would be good to know, because then you finally know for sure what disease you had! Finally!
6. How could anybody possibly get to 65 years with so much unrepairable damage going on their entire life?
So basically, we need more details for such a blanket statement....WHAT, WHEN, WHY, WHERE, and HOW. If he/she knows so much, it should be easy. If not, you are going to get a bunch of "well", "ahh", "we aren't sure but" , and such.
All that said, the human brain begins to deteriorate the day we are born. His/hers apparently has deteriorated much faster than yours and at a younger age....without even any meds to do it!
Posted by Tomatheus on December 2, 2010, at 12:53:15
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2010, at 0:16:46
> Thanks so you think this lexapro can work or wasting my time and money?
Phillipa,
I think that there's a chance that the Lexapro could work. If I were taking it, I would probably give it a full trial as long as I could tolerate the medication and then work with your doctor from there. And again, I would also remain very skeptical of what your pharmacist told you. I'm certainly no medical professional or neuroscientist, but it's hard to see how he (or she) could have reached the conclusion that your brain is irreversibly damaged just from listening to you talk about your treatment history. I agree with the other posts that have been made here.
Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:31:50
In reply to Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 20:56:40
PJ, people say anything. Every second person is an expert. You get in a plumber and in 5 minutes he's an expert on your plumbing. This pharmacist has made himself an expert on the state of your brain. At our age most people's brains are damaged. Certainly yours and mine. It is (shall we say) a no brainer. Hope for us? Hope for what? I don't think there is hope for anything. Maybe there is. I wouldn't know.
I'm interested in the fact that you are frightened of being alone. I'm not nearly as frightened of being alone as I sometimes am of people.
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:34:45
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:31:50
>Hope for what?
Hope for relief?
I don't have a lot of that.
Not from the pharmacy these days.
Couldn't you tell him you've given up hope because people like him do not sell any decent drugs anymore?
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:36:40
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Hombre on December 2, 2010, at 3:58:44
>Ugh...the first thing I thought was that the pharmacist has no basis for saying that.
That never stops them.
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:43:40
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2010, at 21:52:46
>gg seriously you feel he could be wrong?
Come on, PJ. You need to be more sceptical. How could he be right, beyond the probably right assumption that anyone our age with our med history is f*ck*d. People make it up as they go along so often.
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:48:35
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by bleauberry on December 2, 2010, at 11:31:56
>There is not a single person on the planet that can claim what the pharmacist claimed.
That sounds about right.
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2010, at 18:38:08
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » bleauberry, posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 13:48:35
Thanks again will continue on the lexapro, try to cut down further on benzos, and see what happens if I give up the bioidenticals. Probably wasting my money. Sigi we can't be old can we? PJxx
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 19:38:51
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2010, at 18:38:08
>see what happens if I give up the bioidenticals. Probably wasting my money.
I don't know. I take bio-identicals. Wasting your money? It depends how much you have to spare. I think bio-identical hormones in people our age make sense.
>Sigi we can't be old can we?People our age are not supposed to say they are old, so I get great pleasure from saying I am.
Even better is to have loud conversations in public places about how old and ugly I am.
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 19:40:57
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 19:38:51
>People our age are not supposed to say they are old, so I get great pleasure from saying I am.
>Even better is to have loud conversations in public places about how old and ugly I am.I'm going to have a field day in the nursing home.
No party hats for me.
Posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 19:44:06
In reply to Re: Pharmacist today said my brain damaged no repairin, posted by sigismund on December 2, 2010, at 19:40:57
>I'm going to have a field day in the nursing home.
>No party hats for me.
That's what you need in life. Something to look forward to.
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