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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on October 19, 2010, at 1:49:13
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by Maxime on October 18, 2010, at 20:53:42
>
> >
> > Or very horrifying. Most of my cerebral cortex was hypofunctional as was indicated by the color blue on repeated PET scans. This compares with healthy individuals whose brains shows up globally yellow and orange except for the ventricles. It was a horrendous finding to see how globally my brain function is affected by depression. It was not so pleasant a revelation that the U.S. NIH considered me to be "very sick".
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott, I am sure that it was distressing to find out about your brain function. I am really sorry about that. But at the same time did it not give you satisfaction? Proof that you are ill. I always have people doubting how sick I am and then I begin to doubt it myself. But with the scan you have proof. Or maybe you don't need that kind of validation. *hugs*There are people on Internet group forums for the mentally ill whom still don't validate me or that major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder are biological disorders of the CNS. There is even a recalcitrance along this thread to internalize the facts as scientists have come to know them in the 28 years since I was first diagnosed and treated. There is a lack of agreement in only the details, but not of the phenomenon. For some, brain function changes through psychotherapy. It can help remove chronic biological stresses on the brain. This easing of "depressive pressure" might yield the same result as somatic treatments for subgroups of depressives. However, I am not one of them.
I think that having been treated at some of the most highly accredited research facilities gave me the opportunity to watch the field of psychiatry evolve and be exposed to the most current trends in discovery and scientific thought.
How do I know that my affective disorder is biological? Got 28 years for an explanation?
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on October 19, 2010, at 12:56:30
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by SLS on October 19, 2010, at 1:49:13
Scott, this is a painful story to hear; much more poignant to live it. I for one am glad your here, willing to share your experience and knowledge and to have the wherewithal to defend it.
> > > Or very horrifying. Most of my cerebral cortex was hypofunctional as was indicated by the color blue on repeated PET scans. This compares with healthy individuals whose brains shows up globally yellow and orange except for the ventricles. It was a horrendous finding to see how globally my brain function is affected by depression. It was not so pleasant a revelation that the U.S. NIH considered me to be "very sick".
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Scott, I am sure that it was distressing to find out about your brain function. I am really sorry about that. But at the same time did it not give you satisfaction? Proof that you are ill. I always have people doubting how sick I am and then I begin to doubt it myself. But with the scan you have proof. Or maybe you don't need that kind of validation. *hugs*
>
> There are people on Internet group forums for the mentally ill whom still don't validate me or that major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder are biological disorders of the CNS. There is even a recalcitrance along this thread to internalize the facts as scientists have come to know them in the 28 years since I was first diagnosed and treated. There is a lack of agreement in only the details, but not of the phenomenon. For some, brain function changes through psychotherapy. It can help remove chronic biological stresses on the brain. This easing of "depressive pressure" might yield the same result as somatic treatments for subgroups of depressives. However, I am not one of them.
>
> I think that having been treated at some of the most highly accredited research facilities gave me the opportunity to watch the field of psychiatry evolve and be exposed to the most current trends in discovery and scientific thought.
>
> How do I know that my affective disorder is biological? Got 28 years for an explanation?
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
>
Posted by creepy on October 20, 2010, at 12:00:52
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on October 19, 2010, at 12:56:30
Depending on your illness, therapy may be able to take the place of medication.
I had about 15 good, drug-free years after a round of intense therapy. Just started EMDR and hope to put a damper on these out of control stress responses.
Ive been suffering with terrible pain and fatigue for 3 months or so, and I think its the depression returning. I attribute this to spinning my wheels in therapy for so long, not making progress.
Im off almost all of my psych meds and still hanging in there. May add an NRI or something mild to help cope with therapy.
Posted by Deputy Racer on October 20, 2010, at 12:38:08
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by huxley on October 18, 2010, at 17:08:37
>
> Now stop being hypocritical...Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by huxley on October 20, 2010, at 20:48:58
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » huxley, posted by SLS on October 18, 2010, at 17:28:40
Thanks for digging them up for me sls.
Sorry if what I said was no civil.I wonder if these scans will be able to show the effects of psych meds on the brain.
Interesting times ahead.
Posted by Maxime on October 20, 2010, at 21:31:27
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by SLS on October 19, 2010, at 1:49:13
So I have an appt. with my pdoc for next Friday to discuss how I might reduce my meds. I will also talk to him about TMS and TDSC. I have already lowered my Nortrip from 75 mg to 50 mg. I am sure he won't mind.
I am really looking forward to my appt on the 29th. I will be very shocked if says that he thinks I should stay on my current cocktail.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 0:13:59
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 20, 2010, at 21:31:27
Maxime, having access to rTMS would be so wonderful for you. I have been reading far more good review, barely negative--at most, no effect.
Good luck in your next steps.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 0:15:46
In reply to Please be civil » huxley, posted by Deputy Racer on October 20, 2010, at 12:38:08
Posted by SLS on October 21, 2010, at 2:40:17
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by huxley on October 20, 2010, at 20:48:58
> Thanks for digging them up for me sls.
> Sorry if what I said was no civil.
>
> I wonder if these scans will be able to show the effects of psych meds on the brain.Yup. Good idea.
PET scans have been used since the early 1990s to produce images of people who are given test doses of various psychotropic compounds. I was one of the first subjects to be experimented with in this way. They used a compound known as idazoxan, to which I was naive, as a single dose. It lit up my frontal cortices in the image. Unfortunately, idazoxan made me feel significantly more depressed when it was given to me as a clinical treatment. My guess is that this was due to the ability of idazoxan to block NE alpha-2 receptors. It was a bit hellish there for a few months.
- Scott
Posted by bearfan on October 21, 2010, at 17:52:10
In reply to Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2010, at 22:32:42
Well if you think you can be still be stable and productive without or with less meds, I don't see what the problem is. If Parnate is causing long term weight gain, it's probably not the best long term solution for you. If you plan on staying with Adderall XR, maybe a milder drug as desimpramine or something else is a better option.
Posted by Maxime on October 21, 2010, at 22:37:59
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 0:13:59
> Maxime, having access to rTMS would be so wonderful for you. I have been reading far more good review, barely negative--at most, no effect.
>
> Good luck in your next steps.Thank you so much!!!
Posted by Maxime on October 21, 2010, at 22:41:55
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by bearfan on October 21, 2010, at 17:52:10
> Well if you think you can be still be stable and productive without or with less meds, I don't see what the problem is. If Parnate is causing long term weight gain, it's probably not the best long term solution for you. If you plan on staying with Adderall XR, maybe a milder drug as desimpramine or something else is a better option.
I don't know if the Parnate is causing weight gain or not. It never did before when I was on it. I think it's the Notriptaline.
Desipramine remains an options as well.
I will see what my doctor has to say about everything. What I am really hoping is that he will be able to get me on the list for TMS because he used to practice at the psych hospital where it is available.
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2010, at 19:41:22
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » bearfan, posted by Maxime on October 21, 2010, at 22:41:55
Then it sounds like a strong possibility that you can get into the studies. Phillipa
Posted by maxime on October 22, 2010, at 22:15:59
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2010, at 19:41:22
> Then it sounds like a strong possibility that you can get into the studies. Phillipa
I know! I am giddy with anticipation! I would really love to the chance to have it done. Anything to help me.
Will keep you posted.
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2010, at 17:23:39
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Phillipa, posted by maxime on October 22, 2010, at 22:15:59
I am now off my Nortrip. Hopefully it won't have a huge effect on my mood.
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2010, at 18:20:21
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2010, at 17:23:39
Oh, and I didn't get permission from me pdoc to do that. I see him on Friday and will tell him why I discontinued it. If he feel strongly about me taking it, then I guess I have to go back on it, but I hope not.
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2010, at 20:31:43
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2010, at 18:20:21
Good luck and no withdrawal stopped cold turkey? Phillipa
Posted by Conundrum on October 28, 2010, at 12:06:47
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » bleauberry, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:27:57
I agree with everyone else that nortriptyline is probably causing the weight gain.
Many people do not realize it, but nortriptyline is not only an antihistamine, but also at 5 HT2C antagonist, with an inhibition constant of approximately 7.0. Antagonizing the 5HT2C receptor can cause massive weight gain. For instance Zyprexa and Remeron block this receptor and are also antihistamines and both can cause huge weight gain.
Parnate due to its preference of MAO-B inhibition should increase stimulating hormones. Taking this along with adderall, I would imagine would cause a net weight loss, in the absence of nortriptyline that is.
Also nortriptyline can cause retention of water in the body which could be causing the puffyness, which is different from weight from fat.
I remember how you were a few months ago and you seem much better now. I wouldn't let someones comments about how you look derail the progress you have made.
Posted by Conundrum on October 28, 2010, at 12:09:48
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:17:29
Adrenergic drugs like nortriptyline can cause acne and other kinds of skin problems, but so could being overweight and sweating. I'd try to see how you do without it for awhile.
>
> Phillipa, I have my thyroid levels checked every six months. Two months ago they were fine ( a little on the hyper side but that is where I feel best and the endo is fine with keeping me there).
> I thought I was entering menopause and my GP did some blood work and she said that I have not started menopause. Also, I not talking about 10-15 pounds. It is about 65 pounds which on my short stature is very FAT, UGLY and NOTICEABLE. And what is up with the acne? UGH. I now have a medicated cream to use.
>
Posted by floatingbridge on October 28, 2010, at 12:45:09
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Conundrum on October 28, 2010, at 12:09:48
Conundrum, your post was so informative and kind, too. Makes sense about the puffiness. I knew meds could cause abnormal weight gain (ratio of caloric intake to fat stored imbalanced) from experience but not the science behind it.
I've been puzzling over the acne piece. Maxime, could it be somehow related to your tendency to have elevated prolactin levels? (I know I'm butchering the science!) Some other here have that problem, too, men and women. So is there an endocrine piece to this?
Maxime, good luck and be well.
fb
Posted by Maxime on October 28, 2010, at 14:32:56
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2010, at 20:31:43
> Good luck and no withdrawal stopped cold turkey? Phillipa
No, I didn't stop cold turkey. I was on 75 mg and I dropped the dosage by 25 mg every 5 days or so. I didn't think I was going through withdrawal, but now that I think about it maybe that is why I feel like sh*t - flu like aches in every part of my body. I can't remember which came first ... the weaning or the aches and pains. So yeah, physically I feel like sh*t but I don't know if it is from coming off of the Nortrip.
Posted by Maxime on October 28, 2010, at 14:35:41
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by Conundrum on October 28, 2010, at 12:06:47
Thank you. It was just my friend's comment about my weight that upset me. It was my weight gain period. Nothing fits. I tried on my winter coat the other day and it's too tight. I don't know what to do. I can't afford to go out and buy a new wardrobe. Sigh. I hope you are right and that the weight starts to come off. :)
Posted by Maxime on October 28, 2010, at 14:37:58
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Conundrum on October 28, 2010, at 12:09:48
> Adrenergic drugs like nortriptyline can cause acne and other kinds of skin problems, but so could being overweight and sweating. I'd try to see how you do without it for awhile.
>Oh, I didn't know that about Nortrip. I hope it is the cause of my acne. Although I am sure that the weight gain is also contributing. I am so ugly.
Posted by Maxime on October 28, 2010, at 14:41:16
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on October 28, 2010, at 12:45:09
> Conundrum, your post was so informative and kind, too. Makes sense about the puffiness. I knew meds could cause abnormal weight gain (ratio of caloric intake to fat stored imbalanced) from experience but not the science behind it.
>
> I've been puzzling over the acne piece. Maxime, could it be somehow related to your tendency to have elevated prolactin levels? (I know I'm butchering the science!) Some other here have that problem, too, men and women. So is there an endocrine piece to this?
>
> Maxime, good luck and be well.
>
> fb
Well, maybe it was the Nortrip that was causing it. Maybe it's just messed up hormones (like my prolactin. At any rate it is UGLY, ver UGLY. Sigh. Weight gain and acne.At least my hair isn't falling out.
Posted by maxime on October 29, 2010, at 16:29:25
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 28, 2010, at 14:41:16
I saw my pdoc today. He said it was okay to stop the Nortrip. The only thing I have noticed without it I am in a lot more physical pain. I think I will put up with the pain.
He doesn't want me to reduce ANY of meds. He is worried that I will fall into a worse depression. One where I would not be able to function and have a job.
He is looking into TMS for me. He doesn't think much of it, but he says that we must try everything.
So my appt. didn't really go as planned but it went as expected. I didn't think he would want me to come off my meds. At least he is okay with no more Nortrip.
I hope he gets some information soon on TMS, he is calling the psychiatrist in charge of it this week.
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