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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ihatedrugs on October 6, 2010, at 22:52:20
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » ihatedrugs, posted by Maxime on October 5, 2010, at 18:42:33
I do understand what you are saying. I sort of feel the same way in that the depression is lurking around waiting for the Adderall to wear off. But if we think about it that is the same with all the pills we have been taking. The minute we stop taking them the beast comes back. So they also just mask the problem. At least Adderall affords me a few hours of calmness and energy; something I never got from most of the other meds I have tried.
I hope you are doing well.
> I am on Adderaesll XR right now. I am still on my other psych meds though. The Adderall was added to help get me going so that I don't stay in bed all day with the covers over my head. It helps a lot (plus now I have job). However, I feel like it is masking my depression. Like I can feel the depression underneath the Adderall (if that makes sense).
>
> Some doctors will put a patient on a stimulant whilst waiting for an AD to kick in.
>
> I also know of several people on this board who take Ritalin for their depression and nothing else.
>
> I am really happy that you are doing so well!
Posted by ihatedrugs on October 6, 2010, at 22:59:47
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by Phillipa on October 5, 2010, at 19:05:35
Thanks for the warm welcome. I never really leave but sometimes stay in the periphery and learn from you guys by reading your posts. I hope my new test results come back with some sort of diagnosis...I'm tired of feeling like crap and hearing doctors say everything is h*nky dory with me. I really have faith that this rheumatologist we'll find something.
Greetings
> Seems also like a huge corrolation between autoimmune illnesses and thyroid function. Since the thyroid levels are now lowered many could be walking around with hight TSH's by new standards as their docs arent aware. TSH only should be between l-2. Speckled pattern is antineuclear test for autommune ANA. And welcome back to both Ihated drugs and Maxime. Phillipa
Posted by ihatedrugs on October 6, 2010, at 23:21:08
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » ihatedrugs, posted by floatingbridge on October 6, 2010, at 1:48:51
Ha ha, funny how we want to hear a concrete diagnosis. I told my husband I would rather take Lupus than hearing one more time that everything looks great. I think stimulants arm us with the ability of using something whenever our bodies can't respond. Everytime I have a mandatory meeting early in the morning I thank the Lord for Adderall because I know I couldn't get out of bed. And I don't know if you've noticed but when I take Adderall not only does it affect my mood but my body aches seem to subside as well.
Perhaps you could try another stimulant other that Dex. I alternate between Nuvigil and adderall and so far no problems.
As for teaching, it is a most difficult job as you work in various capacities; teacher, advisor; friend; mother; shoulder to cry on; control outbursts; hear f you more than you care to, deal with psycho parents, demanding administration...However, those few students you actually reach, make it all worthwhile.
Good luck and hope the bleeding stops soon.
> My shrink prescribed dex after treating me for about 8 months. I didn't ask, was scared, and only much later realized how *lucky* I was. Most docs are scared, brainwashed, cautious....
>
> Yeah, turned the lights on so to speak. However, I'm afraid my depression is bleeding through :(. Oh well.
>
> He said a few weeks ago that twenty years ago he would NEVER had prescribed it--let alone let me adjust my daily dose. Said he was brainwashed by FDA and popular addiction studies.
>
> Hope it works and keeps working. Didn't know you have obscure physical symptoms to deal with. I do, too. My doctors are so happy happy with all the negative tests results. I swear sometimes I'd welcome a lupus diagnosis, as terrible as that sounds.
>
> Hang in there lady. And don't take my downturn of mood as an indicator of your success' longevity.
>
> A high-school teacher? Wow! That's demanding work. Do you find it rewarding.
>
> Good to see you again
>
Posted by creepy on October 6, 2010, at 23:23:48
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » creepy, posted by floatingbridge on October 6, 2010, at 15:19:12
Right now nothing is working. I have mild depression, PTSD thats an issue when Im triggered, and some mild anxiety.
The only drug my doc has me on is the adderall. I took myself off of celexa after a month of fatigue, but it didnt help. I am no better or worse at the moment.
The last 3 months Ive had awful fatigue and brain fog along with lots of body pain and aches everywhere. The desipramine is great for that. Without it ID be a mess.
Doc refuses to re-prescribe, she wants me on cymbalta and I dont want to go there. Id rather not take any more SSRIs (and certainly not an SNRI notorious for discontinuation problems) Ive gained so much weight my health is suffering. Doc claims cymbalta is not a weight gainer, I disagree.
So you see Im probably depending on some of the AD effect from adderall as well. I know its a fleeting thing. And the ups and downs every day do me no good. Without it, Id have lost my job by now though.
I take breaks from the adderall on weekends and take the smallest amount I can so I dont become tolerant to it. Seems to work well Ive been on this dose for years. I worry about needing a larger dose because with that may come more anxiety and more pronounced mood swings as the drug peaks and wears off.
I think I notice some of what you mention about potentiating pain relief from the NRI. Maybe because adderall causes the release of NE as well?
Or provides more DA for conversion into NE?
The only bad part about desipramine is youll have some headaches, increased heart rate and BP issues for the first couple weeks. I take it at night so I can wake up in the AM and avoid headaches. It also interacts with a few common antidepressants.
Posted by ihatedrugs on October 6, 2010, at 23:25:05
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by creepy on October 6, 2010, at 14:23:05
Thanks for your advice. We are thinking of adding Cymbalta if I get diagnosed with CF/Fibro. I have tried it before and it works fairly. Any of the other SNRI drive me crazy.
Greetings> Using amphetamine alone for treating depression is largely regarded as bad practice. It is used sometimes for augmenting another medication with antidepressant properties.
> Its good for concentration and fatigue, but I dont know that it offers much in the way of pain relief. Youd want a NRI for pain and fatigue.
> desipramine, atomoxetine, maybe wellbutrin. Personally I like desipramine a lot. The pain relief is good and the anxiety is low.
> I wouldnt depend on it to keep your depression in check over the long term. Usually the first few doses will make you feel really good. Once your body becomes used to the drug the response falls off. Over the long term you will likely need more to keep the AD effect.
> Id stick to using it for concentration and fatigue, but look into something else for the pain relief and AD effect, its just too risky.
>
>
Posted by floatingbridge on October 7, 2010, at 0:53:01
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on October 5, 2010, at 22:50:16
Posted by floatingbridge on October 7, 2010, at 1:37:41
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by creepy on October 6, 2010, at 23:23:48
I'm kinda surprised that your doc won't extend your prescription for despramine. Then again, some docs are very conservative which seems to mean they go with the newer, mainstream drugs. My pcp (who I am slowly replacing) suggested lyrica so off-handedly. And frankly, while this particular doctor is no villain, he has zero curiosity about me as an individual patient. And all the advertisements for Lyrica, cymbalta. I am glad those
medications work for some patients. What's frustrating is when treatment
options are narrowed.Are you generally content with your doc otherwise? And no other contraindications or dangers with despramine? BTW, thank you for sharing the side-effects. My BP is ridiculously low, but my heart rate could be a problem. And you mention headaches.
Here's a weird thing. The nri I had trouble with was strattera. I did begin to have headaches, unusual for me. Then I started having raynaud's symptoms that
have not abated. It's almost like that particular drug (for me) had a cascading effect. That's the only way I can explain it.Thanks for suggesting adderall. That might be good. Seems many here have success with it. I might try provigil/nuvigil again, however my experience was negative. Kept my mind going (dysphorically) without alleviating any fatigue.
Ptsd is such a strange condition. I'm sorry you have to deal with it. Does your doc understand some of the health issues that can accompany it? I find that helps me tons. Best wishes to you.
Posted by Maxime on October 9, 2010, at 18:06:43
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » ihatedrugs, posted by Maxime on October 5, 2010, at 18:42:33
I find that the Adderall helps me during my work day. I am teaching courses so I need to be really "up" and full of energy. Since my depression is so bad. I use every last bit of energy that I have for my work day. Once I am in my car to go home I sit there and bawl. My job isn't stressful, but being full of energy is really hard. I have to use all of my acting skills.
I would like to come off the Adderall XR soon.
Posted by creepy on October 11, 2010, at 8:35:57
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » creepy, posted by floatingbridge on October 7, 2010, at 1:37:41
This doc has a good understanding of PTSD. Has tried some alpha blockers and such to work against the adrenal overload. Tried topamax too.
I can see no reason for stopping the desipramine when Ive had pain and fatigue well before stopping the celexa I was on. I can only assume she wants me on an SNRI because its more convenient for her.
Her original reason for stopping it was that she suspected it was implicated in weight gain. but I was on celexa at that point. Of the two of those celexa is by far the worst for weight gain.
Honstly I might stop taking medication for the PTSD entirely and put more effort into therapy.
The health issues are not worth it. I can manage most of the time with my coping skills.
Posted by creepy on October 11, 2010, at 8:40:14
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by Maxime on October 9, 2010, at 18:06:43
One reason I dont like adderall is that the mood swings are vicious. Are you sure the drug isnt wearing off and causing you depressive episodes late in the day?
I regularly get those when adderall wears off. little things make me emotional. my mood is unstable and irritable. Its happened enough that for me I know its the adderall. So when I start dwelling on depressing things I tell myself its not real and I think of something else. If you know theres an end in sight, the depression is bearable.
Posted by alchemy on October 11, 2010, at 12:44:44
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by creepy on October 6, 2010, at 14:23:05
creepy,
do you take a mood stabilizer?
do you think the adderall has induced more brain fog? I am wondering if it has contributed to being burned out so easily- which doesn't help work, etc.When I tried Adderall is probably when I realized there was some kind of bipolar issue with me.
Now I'm on Lamictal & take dexadrine, some days off, and some days less. Unfortunately the dexadrine doesn't help my mood. Sometimes it slightly increases my motivation. Sometimes it doesn't do anything. But I have always been an ultra rapid cycler with ongoing chemical/electrical/hormonal changes. Maybe at only certain "states" it has a more potent effect for me.
Posted by linkadge on October 11, 2010, at 13:21:05
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by creepy on October 6, 2010, at 14:23:05
>Using amphetamine alone for treating depression >is largely regarded as bad practice.
bad practice bad schmactis
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 11, 2010, at 13:25:12
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by Maxime on October 9, 2010, at 18:06:43
are you a teacher?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 11, 2010, at 13:30:44
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » creepy, posted by alchemy on October 11, 2010, at 12:44:44
i have taken both ritalin and dexedrine. I find the ritalin has a cleaner effect on my depression. The amphetamines tend to affect my mood in a negative way.
For me, the depression is comprised of sensory overload. Too much light, too much sound, too much emotion, almost like a mixed episode.
However, the ritalin (usually taken at noon) calms everything down. All of a sudden I can look subjectively at my problems and my life. It helps me disconect from the noise.
The reason I like the stimulants better than antidepressants is because they don't make me sacrifice control over my brain. Whenever I take an SSRI I just feel so out of control.
I do realize that the depression is not eliminated, but just easier to tollerate.
Linkadge
Posted by floatingbridge on October 11, 2010, at 14:13:29
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by linkadge on October 11, 2010, at 13:30:44
Oh. Am I understanding correctly that you are only taking Ritalin? If so, interesting, and of course, of you've got something working, :)
Posted by Maxime on October 11, 2010, at 18:27:43
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » Maxime, posted by linkadge on October 11, 2010, at 13:25:12
I am an instructor for computer courses for the elderly at a Boys and Girls club. I just started the job in September. I used to be a coroporate trainer before that.
Posted by creepy on October 13, 2010, at 12:15:49
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » creepy, posted by alchemy on October 11, 2010, at 12:44:44
Nope no mood stabilizer. Im only on adderall and desipramine right now.
I have PTSD which does have cyclothymia in it. But its not severe enough to be bipolar.
Its natural to swing up and down on amphetamine. The drug itself does this and if there is depression involved, its not used on its own to treat it partly because of this.
Im fine with it as long as I keep the dose low and take it when I need to. I have a pretty low-grade depression I guess.
Posted by creepy on October 14, 2010, at 11:44:55
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » creepy, posted by floatingbridge on October 7, 2010, at 1:37:41
The doc understands PTSD fairly well. Shes the one that changed my dx from major depression to PTSD.
I think she may be afraid of the andrenergic effects of the drug making the stress response worse, or worry that I need an SSRI to calm me down. I see no other reason why she would have legitimate issues with it. What I really suspect is that its a control struggle, touched off by contridicting her statements regarding these drugs. For example, saying cymbalta doesnt cause weight gain. I got a lot of flack for correcting that.
Ive got issues with SSRI weight gain, I really dont want to be on them any longer.
I was having some success with topamax and she took me off that too. Said my hyper-responding to a small dose was all in my head.
yeah Ill be looking for a new doc soon.
Posted by alchemy on October 14, 2010, at 11:57:14
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by creepy on October 14, 2010, at 11:44:55
ya, new doc for you. Hyper-responding to a med is in your head? I thought it was a no-brainer that we all respond differently to different meds & to different doses.
As far as a mood stabilizer, I think you might want to look into being on one. Stimulants plus bipolar tendencies can get ugly. So thank god Topamax seemed to help. I don't know how much it helped you, but that sounds like a good place to start.
What are your stress responses?
Posted by floatingbridge on October 14, 2010, at 13:13:57
In reply to Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by ihatedrugs on October 5, 2010, at 13:54:53
Do you mind?
Hope hope hope you are still feeling better :)
Posted by floatingbridge on October 14, 2010, at 13:29:19
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by creepy on October 14, 2010, at 11:44:55
Speaking bluntly to a doctor is difficult for a number of reasons, one of which is that the doctor him or herself will not answer what can be the simplest bianary question. I'm hoping that isn't your doctor. Besides not believing your sensitive response to topamax, have you asked her reasoning behind her med choices? I'm really curious.
Well, I guess denying that certain meds
cause weight gain is pretty silly. Is she young? Oh, I don't know. You do deserve better care. Do you have any leads?
Posted by creepy on October 15, 2010, at 9:44:20
In reply to some treatments for ptsd, depression... » creepy, posted by floatingbridge on October 14, 2010, at 13:29:19
No leads on a new doc yet. I may switch to another doc within the same clinic again, but I doubt its going to help much. So far three of them have been difficult to deal with. Im no expert, but the advice Im being given is mostly bad.
My PTSD symptoms arent bad enough to warrant a mood stabilizer or beta blocker. Even a PRN script for something may be overkill. Mostly its mild anxiety and depression. Issue is weight gain now. Youd think the doc would be all over desipramine.
I may suggest wellbutrin + anxiolytic next time.
Posted by creepy on October 15, 2010, at 12:50:58
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression » creepy, posted by alchemy on October 11, 2010, at 12:44:44
amphetamine is notorious for being subject to the whims of stomach acidity. Even if I take antacids Ive noticed that sometimes I just dont get a response from a dose. Its really variable.
mood variations on amphetamine are normal, it doesnt mean you need a mood stabilizer.
Sometimes when it wears off I get some depression and anxiety. I just remind myself its normal when I take it.
If you skip several days and youre depressed or your mood is cycling something else is going on.
Maybe I could use a mood stabilizer for the PTSD issues like the adrenal rush when im triggered, but they do more harm than good for me.
Posted by Florence on October 15, 2010, at 14:13:14
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by Hombre on October 5, 2010, at 17:03:48
> Made me think of this:
>
> (fluoxetine + d-amphetamine for anergic depression)
>
> http://thyroid.about.com/blcohen.htmThis is an Old article.
In ever case he used d-amphetamine Spansules.
The summary sheet on about thyroid by Mary Shoman just said d-amphetamine and did not specify a specific brand
But the article above does say spansuels in each case.
Posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 19:11:42
In reply to Re: Most success with adderrall for depression, posted by Florence on October 15, 2010, at 14:13:14
That article is very interesting to read. Has she published any newer articles?
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