![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2010, at 0:08:48
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on August 25, 2010, at 17:29:01
Scott gone all day to pdocs just going through mail no not looking for med free as too old now. I may have a strange pdoc by standards of what I read but she wants me to take 10mg of lexapro with the 50mg of luvox and the benzos which I have cut lower as seems I just sleep too much. She also said she's finding people are doing well with the no no of adding St Johns Wort and SAMe to an SSRI. She said don't worry about serotonin syndrome as some go up to 60mg of lexapro and luvox is up to 300mg. So adding up the serotonin of l0 and 50 isn't much. Sleepy now Phillipa
Posted by wzlong_D on August 26, 2010, at 4:00:00
As I described in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100821/msgs/959729.html, I'm suffering from Post SSRI Side Effect.
Now I've got such an idea: since all the SEs are caused by SRRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor), and SSRE (Selective serotonin reuptake enhencer) works in a somewhat inverse way as compared to SSRI, so maybe it's possible that SSRE could reverse what SSRIs have done to my brain.My question is : Is there anybody who has tried SSRE in order to recover from Post SSRI SEs, especially cognitive impairment ?
Or: Is there anybody suffered cognitive impairment such as memory/concentration loss from SSREs(not SSRIs)?
PS:The only known drug of SSRE is tianeptine (Stablon, Coaxil, Tatinol).May everybody be all fine !
Posted by SLS on August 26, 2010, at 4:48:27
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems » SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2010, at 0:08:48
> So adding up the serotonin of l0 and 50 isn't much. Sleepy now Phillipa
So, what will you do?
Did you want help discontinuing medication?
- Scott
Posted by Conundrum on August 26, 2010, at 5:46:08
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out? +raquo; morgan miller, posted by morgan miller on August 26, 2010, at 0:05:02
acetyl l carnitine and CDP choline are in neuro-optimizer. But it might be better to take them individually if you get side effects from it.
Acetyl L carnitine increase communication between brain hemispheres. When I first tried it I hadn't written any music in years.. Then I wrote almost an entire song after only taking it for a short time. Not a simple song. Not a simple song either. It had jazz chords, a rock riff in mixolydian mode( a scale that starts on So instead of Do), a chorus with a key change and more jazz chords. I had to stop cause I was constipated and back then I was affraid of long term effects so I didn't take magnesium with it to help, since I didn't want it to permanently effect my bowels. When trying it more recently it didn't help. It also made figuring out songs by ear a lot easier
Posted by Conundrum on August 26, 2010, at 5:59:48
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems » SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2010, at 0:08:48
I'm not really an expert at getting off SSRIs I got off prozac but its half life is so long its very easy to get off. I do however know some sites that help with this.
One is the Yahoo group prozac awareness
You join and just ask the members for help.
Another is
www.paxilprogress.com
They seem to specialize in getting off SSRIs with short half lives and benzos as well.
Iknow they are advocates of only decreasing you dose by 5%. I don't know if luvox comes in a liquid form but that would help gradually taper down. They also say after you decrease a dose you should wait until your body feels stable then decrease. Those sites are antipsychiatry so you may find more support for stopping a drug than you would here.
Posted by morgan miller on August 26, 2010, at 11:17:01
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out? +raquo; morgan miller » morgan miller, posted by Conundrum on August 26, 2010, at 5:46:08
> acetyl l carnitine and CDP choline are in neuro-optimizer. But it might be better to take them individually if you get side effects from it.
>
> Acetyl L carnitine increase communication between brain hemispheres. When I first tried it I hadn't written any music in years.. Then I wrote almost an entire song after only taking it for a short time. Not a simple song. Not a simple song either. It had jazz chords, a rock riff in mixolydian mode( a scale that starts on So instead of Do), a chorus with a key change and more jazz chords. I had to stop cause I was constipated and back then I was affraid of long term effects so I didn't take magnesium with it to help, since I didn't want it to permanently effect my bowels. When trying it more recently it didn't help. It also made figuring out songs by ear a lot easierCool..I have it at my work so I might check it out. I think it has phosphatydilserine in it though. I don't think I respond well to PS. Thanks for sharing that!
Morgan
Posted by violette on August 26, 2010, at 12:12:02
In reply to Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out?, posted by wzlong_D on August 26, 2010, at 4:00:00
Psychotherapy cured my 'post-SSRI' syndrome. It took close to a year. It also brought about new symptoms of a different nature..(bipolar like symptoms) but when I compare how I felt then with now, these symptoms are not half as bad as the symptoms people here attribute to post-SSRI usage that I once had..because they cycle rather than remain constant. Plus they serve as a means to an end, serving as a useful tool so I welcome their expression..as enduring them then working through them with my therapist strengthens my mind bit by bit.
I think post-ssri syndrome is just another type of depression.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 26, 2010, at 13:38:19
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems, posted by Conundrum on August 26, 2010, at 5:59:48
>I know they are advocates of only decreasing you dose by 5%.
I don't think this type of 'cookie cutter' approach is sensible. Patients should taper at the pace which best suits them. This is very individual and requires a certain amount of trial and error - awareness of common withdrawal symptoms is important so that the rate of tapering can be adjusted. It is sometimes necessary to taper very gradually.... but others find a relatively quick taper more suitable. For me, short-acting SSRIs can be tapered over about two weeks.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 26, 2010, at 14:07:01
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out? » wzlong_D, posted by violette on August 26, 2010, at 12:12:02
>I think post-SSRI syndrome is just another type of depression.
I don't know. Post-SSRI syndrome is a term which has no established definition. Because of this, I think it's best avoided.
If someone posts that they have post-SSRI syndrome, I have no idea what symptoms they are actually experiencing. It could be virtually anything. In addition, the true cause of most symptoms is never known. On the other hand, if someone describes exactly how they are feeling (and mentions that they believe these symptoms to be related to prior use of SSRIs), it's much easier to come up with useful suggestions.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2010, at 15:19:48
In reply to Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out?, posted by wzlong_D on August 24, 2010, at 23:00:21
> I started to take seroxat 3.5 years ago due to anxiety and insomnia. Not long after taking seroxat, I began to feel hard to concentrate , but I carried on because the directions said it woundn't hurt my cognitive ability. About 1.5 years ago, I confirmed that there was something wrong with my memory . My psychiatrist told me that that was a sign of depression and suggested me switch to another SSRI. But soon I realized that it was the SSRIs that made me forgetful, and I went off ALL ADs since then.
>
> Now , I have got these cognitive problems:
> memory loss
> hard to concentrate
> slow in reacting
> lack of foresight,creativity
> speech impediment. I stumble even if I just "say" a sentence in my mind.
>
> other synptoms include:
> fatigue,laziness,lack of motivation
> short sleep time, non-restful sleep
> foggy brain
>
> I found several people of similar symptons on this board, HAS ANYONE OF YOU FOUND A WAY OUT ? I really need help ...
>
> Sorry but English is not my mother tongue...wz,
You wrote,[...has anyone...really need help...]
In looking at the drugs involved here, I think that I know what is causing the symptoms that you list. My knowlege of the chemistry of nerve agents developed through the first and second world wars and my study of the neurology of psychotropic drug actions lead me to make it plainly visible to me what has happened to you. You have called it post SSRI side effects, but the nurological symptoms here could come from other neuroleptic chemicals also that have a particular action.
You see, nerve agents act on the chemicals that cause nerves to act one way or the other and can cause death. Insecticides and roach poison and rat poisons have been developed to kill the pests by the poisons acting on the nerves to stop them from activating the organs or mucles and then cause death by that means. In WWll, (redacted by respondent), on humans.
Now the actions of psychotropic drugs can cause reactions on the neurons that could cause a mucle to stop contracting or an organ to malfunction in some way. Then symptoms appear as a result of the disturbance that the chemical can cause. Sometimes these symptoms appear after the chemical drug is stopped, hence called withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes these symptoms can appear even while taking the drug and there are reports that the symptoms can surface well after the drug is stopped.
Now it stands to reason IMHO that if the chemical is continued to be put in a person's nervous system that it is likely that symptoms will surface as time runs and that stopping the drugs could give the person a chance to heal, if possible. But what if the damage can not be healed as it being nerve damage? I mean, can people with dyskinesia have their nervous system restored if the damamge is not reversible?
continued....
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2010, at 16:38:28
In reply to Lou's response-ehywheyowet » wzlong_D, posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2010, at 15:19:48
> > I started to take seroxat 3.5 years ago due to anxiety and insomnia. Not long after taking seroxat, I began to feel hard to concentrate , but I carried on because the directions said it woundn't hurt my cognitive ability. About 1.5 years ago, I confirmed that there was something wrong with my memory . My psychiatrist told me that that was a sign of depression and suggested me switch to another SSRI. But soon I realized that it was the SSRIs that made me forgetful, and I went off ALL ADs since then.
> >
> > Now , I have got these cognitive problems:
> > memory loss
> > hard to concentrate
> > slow in reacting
> > lack of foresight,creativity
> > speech impediment. I stumble even if I just "say" a sentence in my mind.
> >
> > other synptoms include:
> > fatigue,laziness,lack of motivation
> > short sleep time, non-restful sleep
> > foggy brain
> >
> > I found several people of similar symptons on this board, HAS ANYONE OF YOU FOUND A WAY OUT ? I really need help ...
> >
> > Sorry but English is not my mother tongue...
>
> wz,
> You wrote,[...has anyone...really need help...]
> In looking at the drugs involved here, I think that I know what is causing the symptoms that you list. My knowlege of the chemistry of nerve agents developed through the first and second world wars and my study of the neurology of psychotropic drug actions lead me to make it plainly visible to me what has happened to you. You have called it post SSRI side effects, but the nurological symptoms here could come from other neuroleptic chemicals also that have a particular action.
> You see, nerve agents act on the chemicals that cause nerves to act one way or the other and can cause death. Insecticides and roach poison and rat poisons have been developed to kill the pests by the poisons acting on the nerves to stop them from activating the organs or mucles and then cause death by that means. In WWll, (redacted by respondent), on humans.
> Now the actions of psychotropic drugs can cause reactions on the neurons that could cause a mucle to stop contracting or an organ to malfunction in some way. Then symptoms appear as a result of the disturbance that the chemical can cause. Sometimes these symptoms appear after the chemical drug is stopped, hence called withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes these symptoms can appear even while taking the drug and there are reports that the symptoms can surface well after the drug is stopped.
> Now it stands to reason IMHO that if the chemical is continued to be put in a person's nervous system that it is likely that symptoms will surface as time runs and that stopping the drugs could give the person a chance to heal, if possible. But what if the damage can not be healed as it being nerve damage? I mean, can people with dyskinesia have their nervous system restored if the damamge is not reversible?
> continued....
> Lou
>Friends,
Now let's look at that Paxil was taken for years. Now Paxil is a piperidine type chemical as being called phenylpiperidine. (I think that Ritilin is methylpiperidine}. The piperidines come from plants such as peppers, poison hemlock, and others and from fire ants. This chemical goes back thousands of years and was used to kill people. Today, chemists synthesize the chemical and combine it with other chemicals and it is marketed as (redacted by respondent).
Now being having the potential to kill the person taking the drug then also has the potential to act upon the nervous system and produce effects of such short of causing death. The question here is not the effects that the drug can produce for those are listed by the innitiator of this thread, but to find {a way out} as the poster asks here for.
I will attempt to show here the organic chemistry of these chemicals and how there could or could not be {a way out}.
continued...
Lou
Posted by violette on August 26, 2010, at 18:46:12
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out? » violette, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 26, 2010, at 14:07:01
Of course that's just my 'theory', Ed, as you said, there is no medically established explanation for it. The symptoms continually described here for post-ssri syndrome describe concepts I've encountered over and over and over in psychodynamic/object relations materials.
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2010, at 19:57:54
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems » Phillipa, posted by SLS on August 26, 2010, at 4:48:27
Hi Scott upped the lexapro to 5mg and kept the luvox at 50mg and downed the xanax by 2.5mg last night. Notice nothing. At one time could just cut benzo dose in half. Might take less xanax tonight. Thinking the bioidentical hormone creams are helping with sleep. Progesterone supposed to be calming. Phillipa
Posted by wzlong_D on August 26, 2010, at 23:56:19
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out? » violette, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 26, 2010, at 14:07:01
hello ed_uk2010, I described my symptoms in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100821/msgs/959729.html
Symptoms I'm now suffering are mainly cognitive problems, here is a thread which discribes what my problems are very well:http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Depression/Anti-depressants-and-memory-concentration/show/536037,please read the third post.Thank you for your reply all the same !
Posted by chujoe on August 27, 2010, at 10:17:50
In reply to Lou's response-ehywheyowet-piprdin, posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2010, at 16:38:28
Ah, Lou, you've been reading Wikipedia again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piperidine
"The piperidine structural motif is present in numerous natural alkaloids. These include piperine, which gives black pepper the hot taste. This gave the compound its name. Other examples are the fire ant toxin solenopsin[8], the nicotine analog anabasine of the Tree Tobacco (Nicotiana glauca), lobeline of the indian tobacco, the toxic alkaloid coniine from poison hemlock, which was used to put Socrates to death."
And here I put pepper on my eggs this morning! Should I go to the hospital? Call poison control?
Seriously now & with all due respect to you and your concern for people's health and well-being, Lou, I think you are drawing unwarranted conclusions from the biology & physiology of organic compounds. Just because a molecule has been used to craft an agent poisonous to, say rats, or even humans, does not mean that that molecule is poisonous in every compound, or in small amounts. It is true that some molecules are particularly biologically active, which makes them potent biological agents, sometimes harmful, sometimes healthful.
As long as we're quoting Wikipedia, here's another entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna
"Atropa belladonna or Atropa bella-donna, commonly known as belladonna or deadly nightshade, is a perennial herbaceous plant in the family Solanaceae, native to Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia. The foliage and berries are extremely toxic, containing tropane alkaloids. These toxins include scopolamine and hyoscyamine which cause a bizarre delirium and hallucinations,[1] and are also used as pharmaceutical anticholinergics. The drug atropine is derived from the plant."
The World Health Organization considers atropine one of the essential drugs that every clinic throughout the world ought to have on hand.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 27, 2010, at 11:28:33
In reply to Re: Lou's response-ehywheyowet-piprdin, posted by chujoe on August 27, 2010, at 10:17:50
> Ah, Lou, you've been reading Wikipedia again!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piperidine
>
> "The piperidine structural motif is present in numerous natural alkaloids. These include piperine, which gives black pepper the hot taste. This gave the compound its name. Other examples are the fire ant toxin solenopsin[8], the nicotine analog anabasine of the Tree Tobacco (Nicotiana glauca), lobeline of the indian tobacco, the toxic alkaloid coniine from poison hemlock, which was used to put Socrates to death."
>
> And here I put pepper on my eggs this morning! Should I go to the hospital? Call poison control?
>
> Seriously now & with all due respect to you and your concern for people's health and well-being, Lou, I think you are drawing unwarranted conclusions from the biology & physiology of organic compounds. Just because a molecule has been used to craft an agent poisonous to, say rats, or even humans, does not mean that that molecule is poisonous in every compound, or in small amounts. It is true that some molecules are particularly biologically active, which makes them potent biological agents, sometimes harmful, sometimes healthful.
>
> As long as we're quoting Wikipedia, here's another entry:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna
>
> "Atropa belladonna or Atropa bella-donna, commonly known as belladonna or deadly nightshade, is a perennial herbaceous plant in the family Solanaceae, native to Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia. The foliage and berries are extremely toxic, containing tropane alkaloids. These toxins include scopolamine and hyoscyamine which cause a bizarre delirium and hallucinations,[1] and are also used as pharmaceutical anticholinergics. The drug atropine is derived from the plant."
>
> The World Health Organization considers atropine one of the essential drugs that every clinic throughout the world ought to have on hand.cj,
You wrote,[...pepper on my eggs...call poison control?...]
You could know more about black pepper, if that is the pepper that you used, by reading the articles found:
Lou
A. pull uup google
B: key in:
[black pepper, poisonous]
I read the firat 3 articles.
Posted by Conundrum on August 27, 2010, at 11:55:27
In reply to Lou's reply-holddapheppr? » chujoe, posted by Lou Pilder on August 27, 2010, at 11:28:33
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA400102
"Maybe, but you would have to use an awful lot of pepper for a long time to run into trouble. The concern about pepper arises from one of its components, safrole, also found in small amounts in star anise, nutmeg, witch hazel, and basil. In the 1960s, the FDA banned the use of safrole in food in the United States after it was found that injecting large amounts caused liver cancer in lab rats. Perhaps the biggest effect of this ban has been to eliminate the use of sassafras root in the making of root beer. Volatile oils found in the bark of the root of the sassafras plant are 80 percent safrole. Nowadays, sassafras can be used as an ingredient in root beer only if the safrole is removed through a laboratory extraction process."
Time to through out your spice rack, because something in there could be poisonous if you eat too much of it.
Plain Oatmeal and Rice won't kill me right?
Posted by bleauberry on August 27, 2010, at 17:31:22
In reply to Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out?, posted by wzlong_D on August 26, 2010, at 4:00:00
I see the terms "medically established" and similar phrases in this thread. I dunno. I guess I'm not on board with that way of thinking any more. I used to be.
If MS was medically established as it is commonly assumed it is, then no one would see symptoms and brain lesions disappear while taking an antibiotic.
It used to be medically established and accepted that stress caused ulcers. That was until decades later when someone discovered ulcers were from a particular bacteria.
And hundreds of similar examples. LDN is not medically established but is improving symptoms, preventing progression of disease, and even totally reversing a wide variety of disease in open minded doctor's offices all over the country.
No one thinks to treat Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or MS or Fibromyalgia with antibiotics. That is not medically established. My LLMD accidentally became a Lyme expert when he anecdotally noticed his CFS, MS, and FM patients were improving or remitting when on antibiotics for other non related reasons. To him he has all the proof in the world documented with hundreds of patients that there is a hiddene unsuspected bacterial component underlying many of those patients. The only way it can be proved is that the patient gets better on antibiotics and they may never know exactly what the cause was.
No one thinks to treat resistant depression with antibiotics or antifungals...hint hint. Not medically established.
Post ssri syndrome is, in my opinion, a real phenomenon because it keeps showing up here on a regular basis from unrelated people from around the globe. The description of it is almost always the same.
Whatever changes occurred in the brain, immune system, hormones, or whatever, that caused it, well, maybe in 100 years that might be medically established. That's too late for me. It is me in charge of and concerned with my life, not the scientist in a white coat somewhere.
I've tried a lot of stuff. Sometimes on purpose because it theoretically sounded good, and sometimes on a pure blind trial just to see. In all of those things, I have found very few substances beneficial to my own post ssri syndrome. But among the few good ones are...
LDN, low dose DLPA, ultra low dose Milnacipran.Why? Not a clue. Just thought I would share.
I think one major rule of the game changes when someone presents with something that looks like the so called post ssri syndrome. That is, no matter what substance is taken...prescription, herbal, vitamin, illegal, whatever...the dose has to be ultra low. 1mg of lexapro for example would be a high starting dose. 1 drop (1/10th mg) is the appropriate dose to start. Not that we want another ssri! Just to show an example.
So I guess other than the 3 substances I've named, the general theme I would share is that the rules others follow do not apply to us...our rulebook was changed when we weren't looking...it now says normal doses for other people are overdoses to us.
Posted by bleauberry on August 27, 2010, at 18:34:08
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out? » bleauberry, posted by Conundrum on August 25, 2010, at 17:09:50
>
> What did LDN help with?LDN helped energy, anxiety, social discomfort, and brain fog, sometimes surprisingly. Mood improved modestly, but with a worsened morning depression, followed by some fairly decent days from about noon on.
>
>
Well, I think we all have to go on our best instincts at the time.
Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2010, at 20:46:04
In reply to Re: Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out?, posted by bleauberry on August 27, 2010, at 17:31:22
>MS was medically established as it is commonly >assumed it is, then no one would see symptoms >and brain lesions disappear while taking an >antibiotic.
No offence Blueberry, but what are you talking about? Are you suggesting that every case of MS is as simple as a bacterial infection? Besides, the over use of antibiotics is not a good thing. Then you just get even more nasty bugs capible of doing more strange things.
Linkadge
Posted by violette on August 27, 2010, at 21:20:19
In reply to Re: Lou's response-ehywheyowet-piprdin, posted by chujoe on August 27, 2010, at 10:17:50
Posted by 49er on August 29, 2010, at 7:04:55
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems, posted by Conundrum on August 26, 2010, at 5:59:48
>
> Another is
>
> www.paxilprogress.com
>
> They seem to specialize in getting off SSRIs with short half lives and benzos as well.
>
> Iknow they are advocates of only decreasing you dose by 5%. I don't know if luvox comes in a liquid form but that would help gradually taper down. They also say after you decrease a dose you should wait until your body feels stable then decrease. Those sites are antipsychiatry so you may find more support for stopping a drug than you would here.Hi Conundrum,
Thank you for mentioning paxil progress as that is the site where I learned how to taper and as a result, was successful in getting off of 4 meds. By the way, they advocate reducing the med 10% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks. Some people do go more slowly and I had to near the end of my taper.
I also wanted to say that it is not an antipsychiatry site. The owner, Laurie Yorke, has been very critical of scientology sites as she feels they are way too extreme. A few posters have encountered psychiatrists who were very helpful.
What we deplore are dealing with psychiatrists who commonly deny symptoms of withdrawal and attribute everything to the label. But that that doesn't mean we are anti psychiatry.
Also, many people on the site, chose to stay on medication and are definitely welcomed.
As far as post SSRI problems, I found that because my body seems to be so sensitive to supplements, I can't take things that would help. So right now, I pretty much stick to a basic multivitamin and fish oil. As a result, I pretty much have to simply wait until my problems clear up which are primarily brain fog and related problems.
But if you can take supplements, the suggestions I saw were good.
49er
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 29, 2010, at 13:53:18
In reply to Post SSRI side effects--anyone found a way out?, posted by wzlong_D on August 24, 2010, at 22:59:12
> I started to take seroxat 3.5 years ago due to anxiety and insomnia. Not long after taking seroxat, I began to feel hard to concentrate , but I carried on because the directions said it woundn't hurt my cognitive ability. About 1.5 years ago, I confirmed that there was something wrong with my memory . My psychiatrist told me that that was a sign of depression and suggested me switch to another SSRI. But soon I realized that it was the SSRIs that made me forgetful, and I went off ALL ADs since then.
>
> Now , I have got these cognitive problems:
> memory loss
> hard to concentrate
> slow in reacting
> lack of foresight,creativity
> speech impediment. I stumble even if I just "say" a sentence in my mind.
>
> other synptoms include:
> fatigue,laziness,lack of motivation
> short sleep time, non-restful sleep
> foggy brain
>
> I found several people of similar symptons on this board, HAS ANYONE OF YOU FOUND A WAY OUT ? I really need help ...
>
> Sorry but English is not my mother tongue...w_D,
In regards to you wanting to know of a {way out}, you have listed that what you are experiancing is related somehow to the chemicals that you have taken, as you write,{...the SSRIs that made me...]. You list some things that your {mind} is experiancing.
I have found that there is a {way out} in your situation. But first I would like for you to view the folllowing video concerning the mind. I think that if you could, we could have a better communication going forward.
Lou
To see this video;
A. pull up google
B. Type in:
[Psychiatry, the mind sciences]
there will be a picture of writing and the video is 9 min and was posted Oct 14, 2007
Posted by 49er on August 29, 2010, at 14:16:57
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems » Conundrum, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 26, 2010, at 13:38:19
> I don't think this type of 'cookie cutter' approach is sensible. Patients should taper at the pace which best suits them. This is very individual and requires a certain amount of trial and error - awareness of common withdrawal symptoms is important so that the rate of tapering can be adjusted. It is sometimes necessary to taper very gradually.... but others find a relatively quick taper more suitable. For me, short-acting SSRIs can be tapered over about two weeks.
Ed,I agree that cookie cutter approaches aren't always the best thing.
But you look at the site and judging from people's experiences on this board, a too fast tapering schedule seems to constantly lead to problems.
Many people on the Paxil Progress Board who tapered too quickly or CTd say they wish they had found the site before they went off their drugs as they felt it would have saved endless aggravation.
Another problem with tapering too quickly is that withdrawal symptoms can be delayed. You can be fine for several weeks and then withdrawal hits out of the blue.
Unfortunately, there will never any studies because drug companies generally aren't interested in these issues.
Finally, as I previously mentioned, the site advocates a 10% reduction of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks. Many people choose to go more slowly particularly near the end of the taper. I went that route.
49er
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 29, 2010, at 15:04:11
In reply to Re: Things that may help post SSRI problems » ed_uk2010, posted by 49er on August 29, 2010, at 14:16:57
>Many people on the Paxil Progress Board who tapered too quickly or CTd say they wish they had found the site before they went off their drugs as they felt it would have saved endless aggravation.
I understand what you are saying, but tapering by 10% every few weeks would mean that the withdrawal could take an extremely long time. This isn't necessary for everyone.
>Another problem with tapering too quickly is that withdrawal symptoms can be delayed. You can be fine for several weeks and then withdrawal hits out of the blue.
Perhaps. I think it's important to bear in mind that symptoms which only appear several weeks after stopping may not be withdrawal symptoms. For example, I often start to experience anxiety several weeks after stopping an SSRI (but not earlier), I do not consider this to be a withdrawal symptom.
>Finally, as I previously mentioned, the site advocates a 10% reduction of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks.
If you actually went that slowly, it would take decades to stop! eg. 10mg for 3-6 weeks, 9mg for 3-6 weeks, 8.1mg for 3-6 weeks, 7.3mg, 6.6mg, 5.9mg, 5.3mg, 4.8mg, 4.3mg, 3.9mg, 3.5mg, 3.2mg, 2.9mg, 2.6mg, 2.3mg, 2.0mg, 1.8mg, 1.6mg, 1.5mg, 1.3mg and so on.
I don't doubt that very slow tapering is necessary for some. Fortunately, painfully slow tapers are not necessary for everyone. I think it's normally fairly clear during the early stages of tapering whether it's going to be easy or not. If withdrawal symptoms are mild, there's no need to reduce so slowly. If problems are severe, a 6 month (or so) taper could be used.
This is the end of the thread.
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