![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 25 to 49 of 76. Go back in thread:
Posted by donald Klein on August 9, 2010, at 8:11:01
In reply to Re: the Zelapar form of selegiline, posted by softheprairie on August 9, 2010, at 4:47:04
I believe the difficulty is the concurrent use of hi doses of bzd
with maoi which renders them sedative to the point of toxicity.
of course very difficult to withdraw from hi dose bzd as outpatient
so detox as inpatient may be necessary. Have seen "refractory"
depressives on this combination relieved by bzd discontinuation
Posted by Enigma on August 9, 2010, at 18:50:14
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Leo33 on August 8, 2010, at 17:30:18
> Enigma, your life isn't as bad as you think! Seems like you have your own house, got married and had 3 kids, and have tons of energy to write on this site. Motivation to write a book.
>Well, I wrote the book now, 1-2 years ago. I couldn't do it now. The kids were easy on my part :). First try, all 3. Must have some serious swimmers.
Energy? No. Anger, hatred, maybe. Depression sucked out all the energy I used to have. I did get a hypo-manic day on Saturday so I went out for the first time in 6 months, all alone. I told myself not to do it, but I did anyway. Had a horrible, depressing time. No one would even come near me. After the first club's bad sucked, I went to another place, that I had, since their all "kiddies" there. I intentionally separated myself from the crowd and went to the balcony so I didn't have to face anyone, or hurt anyone. I carry a knife nowadays, *everywhere* I go. My psychotic side/which is really my defense mechanism to pain and suffering, took on a life of it's own now, even though I still try and suppress it. I got up to leave 15 mins early when some f-ing idiots, thank god I didn't see them, decided to throw lemon wedges at me from below. I thought something was falling out of my pocket and looked down at the ground and saw what they were, normally I'd yell down to *everyone* below me and demand whomever was doing this to make their cowardly face known, but there were cops there, bouncers everywhere, and I would look like the crazy one. I was so depressed, I didn't care, and I just shook my head and left, saying, again, it happened again. Someone had to be mean to me, just cause I was alone (and listening to my headphones at a live band, lol, they sucked).
So that marks every time I've gone out alone, I was either insulted in some way, mistreated, and so on. Sad, cause I'm 190 pounds, and it's mostly muscle except for the gut from f-ing Nardil, and I have a very mean looking face. You would have to be pretty stupid to mess with me, but just add alcohol, and there were probably a few of them doing it, so, there ya go. I fear nothing. Even multiple attackers, as long my trusty blade is with me. Assholes. Immature assholes.Going out at night was one of the few activities I still enjoyed, even with the depression, but I always needed one friend to go with me. They're all gone now. Abandoned me for a million different reasons. Sad thing is, I'm STILL the life of the party when I'm out and don't act depressed (unless alone), but just about everyone I know thinks that part of their life is over, so guess who suffers. Me. Never got lucky and found any younger people to hang with.
> Not to try and out do ya here, In my forties, never been married, no kids, on welfare which I have now hit my lifetime limit and 4 applications and denials from SSDI, live at home with my elderly and ailing parents, not kissed a woman in 11 years or anything else, have to go to clinic for psych nurse to prescribe meds, had to go to state hospital for inpatient after last psych nurse clinic failure in 2008.
41 here. My life, women, and social outings-wise, went to hell at 40. I have NO idea why. It's like everyone knew I was single and 40 and stayed far away from me or was just offended that I would even speak to them, like I would make them look uncool or something.
Well, I wish I never got married, don't regret the kids though, but the marriage killed 20 years of my life and I should have got out at 30 and still had a chance to meet a pretty girl. You must be lonely as hell. I know I am. Wow, I got lucky and when I went on long term disability and failed to come back, I got accepted to disability right away. I feel so bad for you. 4 denials??? You know, they wrote this letter about me at work than ended my career and I thought it was WAY over the top and hurt my feeling like you wouldn't believe, because they basically made me sound like I couldn't do ANY part of my job in ANY way. I HATED my boss (ex-friend!!) and always wondered why he went so god damn far with it. Maybe he was trying to help me get disability? I NEVER thought of that until just now (it's been 10 years I think, or is it 6?).. maybe that's why they made me sound so useless... I should ask him someday..inpatient is hell, IMHO. Are you there now or out? I couldn't use a computer or cell phone or almost anything like that at the place I was at for a few days. Good thing I checked myself in and was able to check myself out. It's a jail. They even monitored what we talked about at the dinner table, I actually had a few girls into me.. it was strange! Too bad none were lookers or I would have married them.
Kissing, hugging, intimacy.. haven't had any of that, though I'm technically married, but separated now. Sadly, I got very lonely at 19, my gf/wife, was an idiot leech and wouldn't let me go no matter how mean I was to her. We became friends with benefits which is something, if she had a backbone or confidence would/should have NEVER allowed, and she should have NEVER accepted when I asked her out. All she had to do was ask me one question. "Are you in love with me". I would have said "no", and ya know, I bet she wouldn't have even cared. My depression was always chemical, and still is, but now I'm depressed "situationally" too. I met my soul-mate 6 years ago - we got split up without getting contact info, and I lost her, just like that. Someone that took me 14 years to find, love at first sight, and I was so happy, and confident we'd meet later (we tried, long story) that we didn't exchange #'s first. I will NEVER forgive myself for that night. I fell in love with her 2-3 days later and have been in love "with her ghost", ever since. I remember ever second of our short, patheticly fun time together.
She helped kill my marriage, just because (I) compared her to my wife. When I did that, I started to have real disgust for my wife.. when that happened, I knew there was no going back. I don't even know what "sex" is anymore, and I'd actually pay an escort (if I had the money) just to let me be affectionate with her, no sex!!! Intimacy is what I missed, through the entire marriage. It degraded over time after the first 5-10 years of our 20 year relationship.
I tried match.joke and it was an epic failure, and oh, I went out with a bang, today actually. I changed my profile and trashed all the users there (targeted pretty women) and listed my DISMAL experience with the site in my profile. I'll leave that up for 2 months. Funny thing, they can't even flame me because all I stated was facts. Some lady emailed me and said non-attractive women have the exact same problem there and told me that pretty women on there get 200 emails a week. So, these chicks do the most selfish and vain thing possible and pick (ONE) of the best looking of all the respondents, and literally blow off the rest without even a response. They act like they are ordering from a dinner menu or picking the nicest looking car out of the lot.
Me, if I miraculously for 5 emails of interest, I would be fair and DATE all 5.Dating is officially death BTW. At least where I live. The women on the site think they can pick a sole-mate, from a god-damned menu!!!! You don't know ANYONE unless you've spent real time dating them several times. But these women are so lazy, it's unreal. They even write in their profiles that they don't want to date a lot of men, just want one "winner". The lucky man who's a a 9 or a 10. I said from the first month of there, that's it's just one huge beauty contest. I'm about 6-8, in most women's eyes, and even 5's were blowing me off. How depressing.
>
> So you are not alone, also I am not a bad looking guy either, and have college degree and a lot of travel. Women want the confident personality types, If you suffer from depression then you are not going to be that, you need that mania.
>
> Anyway, hang in there, you are in a tough spot, but looks like you have enough inside you to fight a bit longer.
>
> Maybe the psych's can put you on heavy anti psychotics to sedate you beyond the point that you care, seems to be the going trend. God forbid no benzo's if they actually work.I think my age nips it in the bud. I'm just too old to get the pretty girl I want. I don't like girls my own age.. they really look it.. (no offense), but somehow, I aged very well, and don't look old, wrinkled, bald, etc.
See, I don't want to be on heavy drugs so I don't care. That's not me anymore. I'd rather die with my personality the same as it's always been. I'm not going to die drooling and comatose, or end up that way. I'm taking my life into my own hands. I tried all the atyp. Antip., and suffered from way too many side effects. No thanks. Pretty sure I've tried benzo's too. Nothing works on me.
Looking into DBS studies now. I want my selegeline and this Nardil crap OUT of my system. Selly won't last me long, but it's better than failing Nardil with 3-4 MAJOR side effects I've had for 3 years. I can't even go outside if it's humid. I'm covered head to toe with sweat in about 3 mins.
Enough complaining.. done so much the last few days.. ack..
Nice talking to ya, and it's "nice", but horrible to hear you're in the same boat, at least with women. God I hate them. If I didn't find them so damn attractive.. I thought about going to Europe for a while. No cash though.
I hear dating EXISTS there, so does casual dating/sex/loving/sharing/intimacy.Women here.. I wish I knew what happened to them. I wish I was alive during "free love". So many women in the world and people are so selective. What happened to casual dating/one night-ers, flings, short relationships. There is safety with condoms!!! I'm not a hedonist but I think it's ridiculous that more people don't enjoy each other mentally and physically without SO MANY SUPID RULES, BS RESTRICTIONS, SUPERFICIAL TRIVIAL GARBAGE, ETC!!!!!!! Just imagine.. dating a different pretty girl every 4-6 weeks. Heaven on Earth for me. So many experiences to be had with the opposite sex, but so many rules so no one is "getting any". So, you grow old and die, missing out on a giant CHUNK of living. I'll die by those words.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2010, at 14:47:58
In reply to Re: the Zelapar form of selegiline, posted by donald Klein on August 9, 2010, at 8:11:01
> I believe the difficulty is the concurrent use of hi doses of bzd
> with maoi which renders them sedative to the point of toxicity.
> of course very difficult to withdraw from hi dose bzd as outpatient
> so detox as inpatient may be necessary. Have seen "refractory"
> depressives on this combination relieved by bzd discontinuationDon,
Welcome! It's always great to see one of The Best Psychiatrists in the U.S.A. and Canada Specializing in the Treatment of People with Mood Disorders here. :-)
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.psychiatrists.html
Bob
Posted by violette on August 10, 2010, at 19:10:30
In reply to Re: welcome! » donald Klein, posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2010, at 14:47:58
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.psychiatrists.html
Bob
Just a note about the list of 'best psychiatrists" posted here: the ones listed in my area run the worst mental hospital in my city. It's well-regarded and well-known for its research, but the patient care is very poor. That can be verified by the view of just about any experienced psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, family practitioner, or mental patient in my city. It's well know for being the 'worst'.
Just a word of caution to anyone looking at that list - best does not necessarily = best in practice.
Posted by donald Klein on August 10, 2010, at 19:26:04
In reply to 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by violette on August 10, 2010, at 19:10:30
> http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.psychiatrists.html
>
> Bob
>
> Just a note about the list of 'best psychiatrists" posted here: the ones listed in my area run the worst mental hospital in my city. It's well-regarded and well-known for its research, but the patient care is very poor. That can be verified by the view of just about any experienced psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, family practitioner, or mental patient in my city. It's well know for being the 'worst'.
>
> Just a word of caution to anyone looking at that list - best does not necessarily = best in practice.It is very difficult to evaluate just how good any doctor is at a distance. Obviously such lists provide only moderate guidance and reasoned skepticism is always advisable.
Just as the professional's difficult job is to objectively evaluate and monitor treatment , the patient has the same task. Both are not easy.
Posted by violette on August 10, 2010, at 19:47:42
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by donald Klein on August 10, 2010, at 19:26:04
I don't disagree with you. I came across that list before; checked up on the psychiatrists listed in my area-one had a curriculum vitae over 25 pages long...the other I don't even want to mention.
The best psychiatrist I found in my city? Not one published article. (Maybe he did some research in the 60s or 70s but nothing online).
I found the psychiatric community in my city seem to know of one another's competency, reputation, assets through word of mouth...through both colleagues and patients, and that referrals are the Best way to find the Best of the Best...as opposed to lists, which may (or may not) have political connotations involved. There may be less subjectiveness involved when referrals represent a consensus of reputation within the local community.
Posted by former poster on August 10, 2010, at 22:46:01
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Leo33 on August 8, 2010, at 17:30:18
I was on Nardil for 15 years. I switched to Cymbalta 60mg a day and a low dose of Dextroamphetamine- about 10mg a day. I think this combo is close to being effective as Nardil without a lot of the side effects and dietary restrictions. It's been 3 years now and I'm looking for an alternative to Cymbalta because of the sexual side effects. So I think there are other options to consider. Hope you feel better soon.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on August 11, 2010, at 4:39:04
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by former poster on August 10, 2010, at 22:46:01
> I was on Nardil for 15 years. I switched to Cymbalta 60mg a day and a low dose of Dextroamphetamine- about 10mg a day. I think this combo is close to being effective as Nardil without a lot of the side effects and dietary restrictions. It's been 3 years now and I'm looking for an alternative to Cymbalta because of the sexual side effects. So I think there are other options to consider. Hope you feel better soon.
Wow - really? "As effective as Nardil" for what? Depression? Or do you also experience benefits w/r/t social anxiety?
Posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 9:53:27
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by former poster on August 10, 2010, at 22:46:01
Glad you post, talk about my thread being hijacked..
Cymbalta caused my first stay a psych ward. I felt strange right after taking in, then went completely suicidal, sobbing, ideation, etc. It was horrible. 2 days after it was out of my system, I felt like myself again.
15 years of Nardil.. I can't imagine that. I've had headaches now for a week that last most of the day and 2 doctors are blaming Nardil, neither are p-docs. I want off it mainly for the weigh gain - 15 pounds on a short guy like me - 5'9" looks HORRIBLE. I'm embarrased to take my shirt of in front people, at my pool, the beach, etc. Looks like I'm pregnant since I gained only a tiny amount of fat everywhere besides the gut. It's all gut and love handles, for a guy that's with 160-170pnd from 16-30+
41 now and I HATE it.
The sweating, I won't even mention that again. Changing my clothes 3 times a night is so much fun, even with fans and a cool room temp.I'll have to look at Dextroamphetamine, thanks. Can't touch Cymbalta though, until I want to commit suicide early. Been thinking of doing that anyway.
My clocks ticking and I failed at getting a single date (and I'm rougly a 7-8) in looks... can't get a girl now because I'm on disability. Who's gonna take me in? Life is pointless for me.I was going to apply for a couple dbs trials, but I'm almost lost all the will to keep fighting. I don't care anymore. I feel I have nothing to live for past 40. Life's been going downhil since then.
Posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 11:09:46
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by g_g_g_unit on August 11, 2010, at 4:39:04
For me, the Cymbalta / Dex combo was about 95% as effective for social anxiety. It seems the 2 meds potentiate each other, responding to a much lesser dose of both meds. The Cymbalta gave me a remarkable relief from depression immediately. Then after about a year on it an even more astonishingly robust response. Better than any other non MAOI med. Only trade-off is that sex is nearly impossible while on Cymbalta unless Viagra is used.
I can relate to the "Nardil gut" I gained about 50lbs on Nardil!!
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:37:13
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » former poster, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 9:53:27
When you were on Nardil, what was your diet like?
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:42:15
In reply to Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on July 24, 2010, at 13:01:13
> I'm concerned about the weight gain. I look HORRIBLE. If ANYONE knows how to lose the weight while on 75 mg of Nardil and (10mg? of Ambien/4 mg Klonpin night
Yeah, the insomnia sucked huh, i would only get 4 hrs of sleep and wake up. then have to take another ambien for second period of sleep. which wasnt good because it left me droggy the next day.
Posted by pedr on August 11, 2010, at 14:43:03
In reply to Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on July 24, 2010, at 13:01:13
Hi Enigma,
sorry you're feeling so horrible. My Dx is not dissimilar. I have atypical "treatment resistant" depression and OCD. On top of that I have chronic IBS-C which leaves me in varying degrees of pain and discomfort every day. I also have tried the standard groups of meds and cannot tolerate many (e.g. a tiny Paxil dose gave me daytime nightmares, like being in a Tim Burton film). I'm on 90mg Nardil and it has helped more than anything I've tried by miles. Still I go through periods of depression which typically last 5-6 days. I don't know why. I just sit tight and wait for them to pass.I was 150 lb when my IBS-C was bad (you become afraid of all food and so you stop eating it) but my "normal" weight has always been ~ 170lb. Now I am 200lb. Like you, nothing I seem to do touches it - exercise, diet and so on. I also look and feel pregnant with that weird big belly but lean limbs look. Makes my SA really difficult on the subway, I'm convinced that people are staring at me.
Here's your list of SE's (I get or have had all of them and more) with any advice I have:
Nardil causes
- fatigue,
--- have you considered adding Provigil? Some people report excellent results. Didn't do squat for me.
- insomnia (need 2-3 meds to sleep at night),
--- apparently melatonin can be taken with Nardil. The bottle says not, as do some websites. But my shrink thinks it's OK, and lots of people have tried it. Perhaps give it a go.
- constant overheating/sweating/uncontrollable body temp (too high/can't cool down - drinking coffee makes me sweat!), unbearable in humidity (I could ALWAYS tolerate it before Nardil),
- now crying spells (new, never had them until 1 year ago or 6 months ago - some severe crying spells - suicidal - uncontrollable crying - loud, severe. (not a side effect, I think it's pooping out. Nardil never caused this before - been on nardil for 2-3 years) - 75 mg.
--- have you considered 90mg or higher? or augmentation with Provigil?
- Max dose causes (blood pressure problems, dizzy spells when bending over, raising head back up, fairly bad. Hyptotension? I forget the term.
--- I used to get this but it has passed. Not sure why yours is persisting. Try 2 things: 1/ drink loads of water. This increases blood pressure. 2/ increase your salt intake (as long as your doc approves). This also increases blood pressure. I was able to play soccer as long as I did these steps beforehand.
- Anorgasmia
- Inability to regulate body temperature/overheating
- Severe fatigue
- Unable to lose weight, weight gain from eating little to no calories - very low carb diet
>> If anyone knows of anything that will help, please toss on your comments. Just looking in the mirror after a shower causes depression. Now I wear a beach/surfer shirt to hide my body at the pool/beach. :(Looking in the mirror can't cause depression directly. I know that you probably know that but it's true. It sounds as though body image is incredibly (excessively?) important to you. Don't get me wrong, I don't like looking pregnant either (and it's cost me a fortune in clothing) and I get anxious&down about it often, but since there's f-all you can do about it, the only thing left to do is change your attitude towards your body image. Accept that this is the way it's going to be whilst on Nardil. If you can make peace with the weight gain, the less it will get you down and the better you will feel.
Apologies if that came across as preachy-sounding, it wasn't intended to be, it's just my suggestion.
Pete
Posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 16:51:02
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:37:13
> When you were on Nardil, what was your diet like?
I tried everything from atkins, to just atkins snacks (like 500 calories a day), to everything under the sun. 4-5 small meals a day, etc, etc, and so on.
(incoming rant)
Still on Nardil. Jerkoff new p-doc doctor STILL hasn't called me back yet. I've been waiting 3 weeks for him to get back from vacation. Before vacation, I left messages and they never called back. I have to switch to Selegeline. It's the only drug I KNOW will work, for a while anyway.
I might go to the hospital tonight, for my gut and 1 week+ long all day headache - (5 weeks now, it's be been messed up, gastro docs are stumped, but they won't even do a blood test or check my gut with whatever test I had when I was like 10), I guess the same test exists..
Plus, I'm suicidal as ever. 99% convinced I'll never find even a semi-attractive girl to love me (and I'm a muscular "7", minus the nardil gut). All dating sites were either scams, liars, elitists (people who want only 9's and 10's ONLY or CEO's, rocks stars, movies starts, that sort of thing - f-ing women.), and selfish women with massive egos that the though of dating a 7 "offended" them somehow, and pure, pure, pure rejection. What a horrible experience.
If I had the money, I'd move to Europe in a second, and actually meet women, maybe fall in love and be happy. Too bad I have young children. I can't fly back and forth every month, not on disability and I can't take them with me.
Been in bed most days until I just can't sleep anymore. Been taking too much Klonopin.. calms me down a little. Max dose. I already need something stronger (like 2 years ago). Couldn't sleep for the past two nights, even with 3 sleep meds in me.
I hate life so bad, I can't put it in words. If it wouldn't hurt my kids (could care less about my wife - we're separated and not in love), and she won't even "fight" to help me get better. Example, I'll ask her to call a doctor for me, and she'll just accept whatever they tell her and hangup. Instead, what I would do is say "Are you insane? She's suffering terribly, she can't wait a month!!!! Can't you squeeze her in or suggest anything else - what about a cancellation list - SHE NEEDS a new med ASAP?". Last p-doc denied my med change to Selegeline, since he's not familiar with it.
WTF, ever hear of the internet, or a BOOK? As an SE, we had to learn new tech every 6 months or we'd lose our jobs. Doctors? Hell now. They can just sit back and say stupid things like "I'm not familiar with that drug" - EVEN THOUGH I still have the bottle, and told him I've already been on it!!!!I think Nardil is causing the headaches.. unless it's rage and anger which always did the same. In a semi-hypo manic episode now (extremely rare these days), and I can't sleep at night, and I can't cry, and I WANT to cry.
Wife - is afraid of even the smallest amount of conflict, so she's 0 help to me and my illness, plus, we were never in love, so there's no affection there either.
Every 5 minutes not I think of taking my knife to my jugular. That would be very quick and not too painful. I don't care anymore. I'm sick of all the people who abandoned me. Sick of have 0 friends, sick of getting rejected 500 times on every single dating site. I hate women now, the attractive ones, cause they are impossible to date, as they always want MUCH MORE than their own equivalent in a man. That's been MY experience, so it's not generalization. Sick of side-effects, sick of being in misery and begging people to be my friend or go out some night with me and ALWAYS getting an excuse. Sick of fighting bipolar disorder for 16 years, and severe, suicidal depression for 10 years. No more fight left in me. Just anger and rage. 1/2 asses doctors who barely lifted a finger to help me, even though I was suffering terribly, and blah blah blah. No support. Even the support group I went to didn't help me, nor to therapists. It was like talking to a wall. I can do that at home.
Trying to get into a couple dbs studies, but it depends how bad I get. I could gut myself tonight, and I'm not going back to the prison/er, I mean hospital. I get worse there, not better.
I never used to believe in fate, until I faced so much pain over years and years and years and never a light, never an angel, never someone to save me. They never came along. My deck was stacked at birth, so I believe, and my storm clouds follow me around everywhere I go. It's been like that since I was a child. I have only few good memories and this curse that makes me remember every negative event in my life like it happened 5 mins ago. I'll never understand that. I just plum "forgot" about the good memories. There HAD to be some?
rant over. This could be a suicide note.. I couldn't tell ya either way.
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2010, at 20:03:52
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 16:51:02
Enigma I do hear your pain but to committ suicide is not the answer. Don't know what is but it's there maybe the dbs? Phillipa
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 21:18:38
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 16:51:02
I think this might just cheer you up Engima.
Posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 21:46:05
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:37:13
I had a ravenous appetite while on Nardil. I would eat anything in sight until I was stuffed. Worse yet, I would eat junk food: Doughnuts, chocolate and lots of coffee. Almost one pot a day with cream and sugar.
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 22:32:53
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 21:46:05
Same here. I'm going to try Nardil once more because it helped alot with SP but now on a low calorie diet + excerise and see how much I put on. I wonder if I would of done this in the first place how much weight I would of gained.
Posted by GreenP on August 11, 2010, at 23:58:44
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by emmanuel98 on July 27, 2010, at 19:24:36
I took Nardil for 6 months. I'm curious, has it eradicated you depression completely? If it hasn't, you may want to switch to an SSRI. While I was on Nardil I gained 35 pounds. I've been off of it for a month now and have only lost 8 of those pounds. For some reason the weight gain caused by Nardil is extremely hard to get rid of. Also for me, my memory went to sh*t, and my grades suffered for it. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, is this worth it? I know how hard it is to let go when people say that Nardil is a miracle cure, but listen to yourself and your own body. It's unhealthy to gain all that weight and cellulite (I have heard) is due to toxins being stored in the fat tissue. I started getting cellulite when I started taking the drug Seroquil, so I understand your frustration. Keep trying, keep posting, and good luck to you!
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:12:37
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:42:15
> > I'm concerned about the weight gain. I look HORRIBLE. If ANYONE knows how to lose the weight while on 75 mg of Nardil and (10mg? of Ambien/4 mg Klonpin night
>
> Yeah, the insomnia sucked huh, i would only get 4 hrs of sleep and wake up. then have to take another ambien for second period of sleep. which wasnt good because it left me droggy the next day.My insomnia was so bad, I literally tossed and turned for 8 hours or so, before getting meds (and now my meds aren't working so great as I'm getting up more at night again). So I'd sleep for 5-10 mins, wake up, take 20 mins to get back to sleep for another 5-10 mins, etc. I know because I looked at the clock each time.
Then for a while I was kicking, punching, and jumping out of sleep. Like I had a terrible nightmare but didn't. I don't really get nightmares because death, violence, etc have no scare effect on me. I only get disturbing dreams, like I'm BACK IN COLLEGE!.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!! So I fling myself from bed, breathing heavy... that god.. it was just a dream..
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:29:29
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by pedr on August 11, 2010, at 14:43:03
> Hi Enigma,
> sorry you're feeling so horrible. My Dx is not dissimilar. I have atypical "treatment resistant" depression and OCD. On top of that I have chronic IBS-C which leaves me in varying degrees of pain and discomfort every day. I also have tried the standard groups of meds and cannot tolerate many (e.g. a tiny Paxil dose gave me daytime nightmares, like being in a Tim Burton film). I'm on 90mg Nardil and it has helped more than anything I've tried by miles. Still I go through periods of depression which typically last 5-6 days. I don't know why. I just sit tight and wait for them to pass.I'm kinda the same. I have good days and bad days, probably because I'm technically bipolar and have always been a rapid cycler, so 2-3 days I might be "ok" but lately, that's been bad too, then 2-4 days of being bedridden where I have no interest in getting out of bed, or doing literally anything.
The lack of a lover in my life had added so much extra environmental depression to my chemical depression, so I cry a lot now.
> I was 150 lb when my IBS-C was bad (you become afraid of all food and so you stop eating it) but my "normal" weight has always been ~ 170lb. Now I am 200lb. Like you, nothing I seem to do touches it - exercise, diet and so on. I also look and feel pregnant with that weird big belly but lean limbs look. Makes my SA really difficult on the subway, I'm convinced that people are staring at me.
I hear you. Sometimes all I can feel or see is my gut, I hate it. My daughters friends have called me pregnant. Yeah, that helps.
> Here's your list of SE's (I get or have had all of them and more) with any advice I have:
> Nardil causes
> - fatigue,
> --- have you considered adding Provigil? Some people report excellent results. Didn't do squat for me.Didn't to anything for me either. It also caused some odd side-effect I can't remember. But didn't make me more alert or give me ANY energy at all.
> - insomnia (need 2-3 meds to sleep at night),
> --- apparently melatonin can be taken with Nardil. The bottle says not, as do some websites. But my shrink thinks it's OK, and lots of people have tried it. Perhaps give it a go.Tried it, and it gives me, hmm, hard to explain. I forget if that's the one that gave me disturbing dreams, which I would always wake from, or the punching and kicking myself out of sleep, or both. Never touch the stuff anymore.
> - constant overheating/sweating/uncontrollable body temp (too high/can't cool down - drinking coffee makes me sweat!), unbearable in humidity (I could ALWAYS tolerate it before Nardil),
Still killing me.
> - now crying spells (new, never had them until 1 year ago or 6 months ago - some severe crying spells - suicidal - uncontrollable crying - loud, severe. (not a side effect, I think it's pooping out. Nardil never caused this before - been on nardil for 2-3 years) - 75 mg.
> --- have you considered 90mg or higher? or augmentation with Provigil?
> - Max dose causes (blood pressure problems, dizzy spells when bending over, raising head back up, fairly bad. Hyptotension? I forget the term.I already answered your question right there. I was at 90, if I bent over to pick something up, or got out of bed, I would get the worst dizzy spells. Painful in the eyes and head too. Had to hold onto to wall for it to pass.
> --- I used to get this but it has passed. Not sure why yours is persisting. Try 2 things: 1/ drink loads of water. This increases blood pressure. 2/ increase your salt intake (as long as your doc approves). This also increases blood pressure. I was able to play soccer as long as I did these steps beforehand.
Been drinking a ton of water later, because I had a 5 week stomach bug and became severely dehydrated.
> - Anorgasmia
> - Inability to regulate body temperature/overheating
> - Severe fatigue
> - Unable to lose weight, weight gain from eating little to no calories - very low carb diet
>
>
> >> If anyone knows of anything that will help, please toss on your comments. Just looking in the mirror after a shower causes depression. Now I wear a beach/surfer shirt to hide my body at the pool/beach. :(
>
> Looking in the mirror can't cause depression directly. I know that you probably know that but it's true. It sounds as though body image is incredibly (excessively?) important to you. Don't get me wrong, I don't like looking pregnant either (and it's cost me a fortune in clothing) and I get anxious&down about it often, but since there's f-all you can do about it, the only thing left to do is change your attitude towards your body image. Accept that this is the way it's going to be whilst on Nardil. If you can make peace with the weight gain, the less it will get you down and the better you will feel.Well, I've been thin and muscular all my life. This gut and not being able to get rid of it causes me a great deal of distress and depression. I'm trying to meet a women (couldn't be going worse), and I believe my gut is always getting in the way (not literally). I had a six pack for so many years I lost count. Actually, I still have one, you can barely see it now though due to the fat covering it. My self-image has always been important to me. It will be for a good many years longer. I was so upset today (crying about my lost soul-mate), that I wanted to take a knife to the arteries in my neck. Just like that. Dead.
>
> Apologies if that came across as preachy-sounding, it wasn't intended to be, it's just my suggestion.
> Pete
>Not a problem. I wish I could at least watch movies again. I have a million on a hard drive, but I just can't get up the energy to watch them. I like to sleep and dream about better things. My depression doesn't affect my dreams at all. It's like I'm normal again when I'm dreaming. It's my only escape. I sleep so lightly that I usually remember my dreams, and sometimes I can partially control what happens in them. Sad that dreams are better than my real life. REALLY SAD.
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:34:19
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2010, at 20:03:52
> Enigma I do hear your pain but to committ suicide is not the answer. Don't know what is but it's there maybe the dbs? Phillipa
The dbs is going to be a battle.
They have 3 rounds of requirements you have to pass just to get it (for this one particular trial). I'm afraid of brain damage and being a veggie.. but I just I could combat that one with a living will right?And it's a 5 year long trial. I have to move to Atlanta alone for a month, with no one to support me or friend or family to talk to, and answer question-ares or attend interviews for the next 5 years. IF I ever get accepted.
And what if it doesn't work or makes me WORSE. I need a mobster that owns me a favor. So, if things go awry, he can sniper me in the head from the top of some building and "save my life".
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:36:45
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 21:46:05
> I had a ravenous appetite while on Nardil. I would eat anything in sight until I was stuffed. Worse yet, I would eat junk food: Doughnuts, chocolate and lots of coffee. Almost one pot a day with cream and sugar.
I was exactly like that or Seroquel, Fanapt (forget the spelling) and one other drug. I craved carbs ans surgar and could NOT resist them.
The Fanapt killed me. 15 pounds in a week, and still on me 1.5 years later.
I dropped all the weight (which was much more, like 30 pounds, and 25 pounds). But, I don't think I was on nardil them. That's the key.
Posted by jackford on August 16, 2010, at 21:40:40
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by donald Klein on August 10, 2010, at 19:26:04
Not to mention that getting to see - or even talk with - the people on this list is often next to impossible. I'm in the Boston area and tried my best with Mass General (which has a number of very well-regarded (famous, actually), but got absolutely nowhere. Stonewalled by administrative staff.
> > http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.psychiatrists.html
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Just a note about the list of 'best psychiatrists" posted here: the ones listed in my area run the worst mental hospital in my city. It's well-regarded and well-known for its research, but the patient care is very poor. That can be verified by the view of just about any experienced psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, family practitioner, or mental patient in my city. It's well know for being the 'worst'.
> >
> > Just a word of caution to anyone looking at that list - best does not necessarily = best in practice.
>
> It is very difficult to evaluate just how good any doctor is at a distance. Obviously such lists provide only moderate guidance and reasoned skepticism is always advisable.
> Just as the professional's difficult job is to objectively evaluate and monitor treatment , the patient has the same task. Both are not easy.
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 17, 2010, at 15:47:39
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list » donald Klein, posted by jackford on August 16, 2010, at 21:40:40
> getting to see - or even talk with - the people on this list is often next to impossible.
It might not be here... :-)
Bob
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