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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 78 to 102 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 21:33:45
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by bleauberry on July 25, 2010, at 20:25:37
>Drugs almost for sure didn't do you any favors, >but they didn't make you treatment resistant.
Oh no, its murcury poisoning, or some yeast infection right?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 21:36:09
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 21:29:50
>I would also try to get obsessed with proper >exercise if you can and start eating a super >healthy well rounded diet.
You obviously don't know me that well. I already run about 10k a day and maintain a steady diet of mostly organic foods.
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 21:39:10
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by bleauberry on July 25, 2010, at 20:25:37
BB I have to disagree that medication trials probably are not at all responsible for making Scott's treatment more difficult. I have already had three psychiatrists, one who I really like and respect, tell me that medication trials may have made treating me more difficult. It is theorized that too many medication trials simply leaves the brain less "fresh" than it was before the trial. If one severe mixed manic episode or psychotic episode can change brain chemistry, it makes sense to me that some bad medication trials can do the same thing.
Posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 22:09:17
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 21:36:09
> >I would also try to get obsessed with proper >exercise if you can and start eating a super >healthy well rounded diet.
>
> You obviously don't know me that well. I already run about 10k a day and maintain a steady diet of mostly organic foods.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>That's great, you must not be doing all that bad if you're able to run that far and that often. Since you are so concerned about your health you may want to consider the damage that running 6 miles that often can do to your body. I'm not just talking about musculoskeletal damage, I'm talking about oxidative stress and the toll you are taking on your heart and lungs. You talk about things being pro-oxidant, well that kind of exercise ends up being pro-oxidant and may do more harm than good in the long run. I suggest some weight training and more intense brief bursts of cardiovascular exercise. Interval training is one of the best things you can do for your heart and lungs.
Dude I can't even walk normally without discomfort right now let alone run, and exercise was the cornerstone of my physical and mental health for years. I think you might want to seriously consider finding a really good psychodynamic therapist and figuring out if you have any underlying self esteem issues. If you we don't truly love ourselves and our parents didn't give us what we needed in order to learn to love ourselves, there is a much greater chance that depression and anxiety will impact our daily lives. You probably won't listen to me though, why would you. Sorry man but you seem like a very stubborn dude. This may be a reason why you are not progressing to the point you would like to. Being stubborn and staying in denial are two things that will definitely hold us back.
Yep I may sound critical and judgmental, but you don't really give me any choice. You're right, I don't know you, but I'm saying it how I see it, as best I can through cybertext.
Posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 22:13:05
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 20:21:32
> >Then maybe you should not come on hear anymore.
>
> Executive decision?
>
> >You're just an angry bitter dude that will never >be happy.
>
> How incredably supportive.
>
> >I think you like the sadness and low self esteem >and anxiety. You don't know how to live without >it.
>
> You're right about not knowing how to live without it.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>Sorry man, I admit I got a bit frustrated and probably should not have called you a bitter angry dude that will never be happy.
You have to see where I'm coming from though. I think you are smart enough to understand that when you come on a forum like this and say that you don't care what anyone here thinks, you might get a few negative reactions. Take some responsibility man.
Posted by violette on July 25, 2010, at 22:13:38
In reply to Re: toxic crap » bleauberry, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 21:32:32
Linkadge,
Whatdayagot about long-term use of benzodiazepens? (not including tolerance, dependence/withdrawal, or large doses)?
Posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 22:23:07
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 20:22:30
> >I care for my brain too much to perminantly screw it up now.
>
> Too late, already is.
>
>
> Thanks bro.
>
> LinkadgeDude! I think you know what I meant. Depression and anxiety and stress all can damage your brain especially when they are chronic. I'm thinking your brain just like many of ours has suffered some kind of damage as a result of chronic depression/anxiety/stress. Even a few week or month long major manic episode can alter brain chemistry. There is evidence that hippocampal volume may shrink as a result of chronic depression/anxiety/stress. I'm sure you are already aware of this. God knows what other things happen to our brains as a result of these chronic issues. Sorry if I was sounding negative or discouraging, I think you kinda pissed me off for a minute. I stand by the things I said I just could have kept them to myself or worded things differently.
Morgan
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 2010, at 23:12:55
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 15:42:39
> You are a very frustrating man to deal with
>
> - Scott> I really don't give a crap what people on this board think.
>
> LinkadgePlease be sensitive to the feelings of others.
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 6:01:25
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 15:42:39
> If the drugs are a good tradeoff for you, then by all means keep taking them
For many people, there is very little if any "tradeoff". Therefore, it is not an either-or scenario.
The decision to take medication is an individual and complex process as one takes into consideration a great many things, including the magnitude and persistence of dysfunction, psychic pain, and pattern of chronicity or recurrence. There really aren't many new drugs that are imminently available in the development pipeline. Waiting is a gamble of time. Not waiting is a gamble of untoward effect. For some people, waiting for spontaneous remission is an unacceptable alternative based upon symptom severity and temporal pattern of illness.
I can appreciate your decision to wait.
I do apologize for the remark I made regarding your being frustrating to deal with. It was meant to be a good-natured poking. I should have considered the possibility that you would not like being poked.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 6:06:46
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by bleauberry on July 25, 2010, at 20:25:37
I will try to keep an open mind.
How are YOU feeling? How would you rate your present state of mental health?
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 10:42:06
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 6:01:25
>For many people, there is very little if >any "tradeoff". Therefore, it is not an either->or scenario.
'many' people, doesn't really say much. Also, I don't know of any large scale clinical studies which truely seek to assess people's impressions of the drugs.
** Also, seeing as most initial antidepressant prescriptions are never refilled, I would assume that for most people, there is ultimately some tradeoff.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 11:07:20
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 10:42:06
> ** Also, seeing as most initial antidepressant prescriptions are never refilled,
That's quite a revelation. According to your source of information, what were the reasons for discontinuation?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 14:33:13
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 10:42:06
Here's one you may have seen:
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102275084.html
Interestingly, only 30% discontinued antidepressants because of side-effects. I would have thought more.
In a not entirely separate issue, the authors state that "It seems likely that the majority of antidepressant recipients do not have major depression". 20% discontinued antidepressants for lack of therapeutic effect. Many these may have been responders whom discontinued prematurely. However, others may have failed simply because they did not have major depressive disorder.
This is a really interesting study. I wish the full text were available.
- Scott
Posted by violette on July 26, 2010, at 15:29:10
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 25, 2010, at 21:36:09
Lindadge,
I understand the ambivalence with medications..been there many times myself though perhaps for different reasons than you....
You have a lot going for you-your motivation and ability to exercise and eat a healtful diet surely must contribute to your wellness and functioning capacity.
I do hope you find your path to of inner peace, whatever it may be.
Take care,
Violette
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 26, 2010, at 16:12:03
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 10:42:06
Hi Link,
May I ask whether you've ever received any kind of psychological therapy? Given your dislike of medication, it might represent the best treatment for you right now.
Posted by morgan miller on July 26, 2010, at 18:30:24
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 10:42:06
>** Also, seeing as most initial antidepressant prescriptions are never refilled, I would assume that for most people, there is ultimately some tradeoff.
Where did you get this from? Is there really a study where a good sample of people where asked what they did with their first antidepressant prescription?
Posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 18:30:48
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by violette on July 26, 2010, at 15:29:10
Thank you violette, that was a kind, non judgemental comment.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 18:32:48
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by ed_uk2010 on July 26, 2010, at 16:12:03
I'm not really looking for suggestions at the moment. There are many more factors involved than can be easily outlined here.
Therapy really isn't an option. I don't have the $.
Posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2010, at 19:24:22
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 18:32:48
First ad's for me never refilled. I'm only one person and the benzos "fixed" me for 40 years. Phillipa
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 26, 2010, at 20:44:32
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 14:33:13
A large percentage of prescriptions for just about anything are not filled because people don't have insurance or can't afford the co-pays.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2010, at 22:26:37
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 26, 2010, at 6:01:25
Posted by linkadge on July 27, 2010, at 7:40:45
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by morgan miller on July 26, 2010, at 18:30:24
>Is there really a study where a good sample of >people where asked what they did with their >first antidepressant prescription?
The operative word here is "re"filled
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 27, 2010, at 7:45:23
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by emmanuel98 on July 26, 2010, at 20:44:32
I'm talking about people who initially fill the prescription but don't get it refilled.
Sure $ may be a factor, by why was it filled in the first place...hope.
Obviously the drug didn't live up to what people hoped or they'd probably refill it. Plus, you can get a lot of antidepressants on wallmart's 4.00 list.
Posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 12:22:02
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2010, at 18:32:48
Hey Link,
When you said you were not *really* looking for suggestions-I took it that you *might* be open to suggestions still...
I personally think you'd be a great candidate for psychodynamic therapy with a psychoanalyst...due to your strenghts mostly..but for other reasons....and for those who cannot afford it, most of the training insitutions throughout the world-usually associated with top univerities-offer free services or sliding scale services to those who cannot afford it.
Or, if you can't afford it in terms of not wanting to invest it in or give up spending on organic food, for example (which I totally understand cost benefit trade offs) or wanting to pay cash to avoid insurance claims or any other possibility why someone doesn't want to invest in therapy, if you want to explore it, or find free or low income analysts, here's a link:
http://www.apsa.org/Find_an_Analyst.aspx
I personally wanted someone with a lot of experience due to childhood traumas and other issues, but I think that analysts in training, who usually are assigned to those who can't afford it as that's how they can provide the free services-can be more effective than someone who is semi-experienced, due to the fact they are normally in heavy supervision by a very experienced analyst. If I could no longer afford my therapy, I would go with an analyst in training before I'd ever go back to the other types of psychotherapy I've engaged in during the past. And although other types of therapists often offer a sliding scale for low-income people, I don't know of any other academic org. that offers free therapy for those in need. The Medicaid system sux, and often those clinics for the poor offer poor therapy, though not always..
From what little I know about you, but also from what I've learned about psychology, I really think you'd benefit from psychodynamic-analytical therapy and wonder what you'd think if you gave it a try. Or if you've already tried this, for anyone else following this post-I think anyone who has been on the medication merry go round for so long should consider giving it a try...as the positive effect of this type of therapy on my mental health symptoms was a huge and unexpected outcome. And since I recognized this, I see many around me who I think might possibly have a similar positive outcome.
Since discovering this, I had done alot of research on it and can totally see why it helps more than medications. I noticed this after only 2 sessions with an analyst-it had a noticable effect, so if anyone is interested, you also might notice an effect after only trying a couple sessions...so the cost benefit can be a quicker, less expensive trial as opposed to other therapies where you might not notice effects for months.
But simply telling others about it is probably not convincing as it's up to anyone to see for themselves...but that doesn't stop me from encouraging it for those who don't want to take meds or for those whose meds are not effective. :o)
Please disregard if this doesn't apply to you (or if it annoys you or anyone).
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2010, at 18:19:40
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 12:22:02
Thanks Violette.
I am open to most things, the problem is that I really don't want to have to seek out, sign up, prove financial need, get transportation and all the other stuff that comes with trying to obtain something of high quality at a low cost.
They treat depression as if people really have the motivation to fight for themselves.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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