Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 950520

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

nardil users ....

Posted by g_g_g_unit on June 9, 2010, at 21:29:39

my psych has suggested that nardil would probably be the ideal med for me, given my diagnosis of atypical depression, social anxiety and OCD ..

i agree, but i'm a little scared of cognitive side-effects. i was curious whether users - especially long-term - have found that it has any negative effect in that regard? do you find yourself feeling dumbed down?

 

Re: nardil users .... » g_g_g_unit

Posted by jedi on June 10, 2010, at 0:22:26

In reply to nardil users ...., posted by g_g_g_unit on June 9, 2010, at 21:29:39

> my psych has suggested that nardil would probably be the ideal med for me, given my diagnosis of atypical depression, social anxiety and OCD ..
>
> i agree, but i'm a little scared of cognitive side-effects. i was curious whether users - especially long-term - have found that it has any negative effect in that regard? do you find yourself feeling dumbed down?


Hi, I do have some memory and word finding difficulties with Nardil, but I augment with clonazepam. I tend to blame the benzo for that more than the MAOI.

I've been on Nardil for most of the past 12 years. I do not think that my mental capabilities are as fine tuned as they were before my first major depression hit.

However, I'm also fairly sure that I would not be here writing this today without the help of Nardil. MAOIs are for serious depression. They do have side effects, but they can also help you live a somewhat normal life.

I have treatment resistant atypical double(dysthymia)depression with social anxiety. I have been on over 45 different combinations of antidepressants and augmenters. The stimulants are about the only thing I have not tried. Nardil with clonazepam is the only combination that has worked for me. I would like to add a small dose of modafinil or methylphenidate, but I have to find the right PDOC to do this. My current GP won't touch the stimulants with MAOIs.
Be well,
Jedi

 

Re: nardil users .... » jedi

Posted by g_g_g_unit on June 10, 2010, at 0:31:14

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » g_g_g_unit, posted by jedi on June 10, 2010, at 0:22:26


> Hi, I do have some memory and word finding difficulties with Nardil, but I augment with clonazepam. I tend to blame the benzo for that more than the MAOI.

is that more short-term or long-term memory?
>
> I've been on Nardil for most of the past 12 years. I do not think that my mental capabilities are as fine tuned as they were before my first major depression hit.
>
> However, I'm also fairly sure that I would not be here writing this today without the help of Nardil. MAOIs are for serious depression. They do have side effects, but they can also help you live a somewhat normal life.
>

yeah, that's why i'm trying to think this through carefully. i tried Nardil once before for 3 months, but found the insomnia difficult to stomach. it also made me feel really foggy and confused. theoretically, it's probably the ideal drug for my cluster of issues, but the side-effects are a little difficult to stomach

 

Re: nardil users .... » g_g_g_unit

Posted by jedi on June 10, 2010, at 10:01:38

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » jedi, posted by g_g_g_unit on June 10, 2010, at 0:31:14

Hi again,
For me I would say it is the short term memory and word finding ability that is affected most. Again, I blame the clonazepam. Things that I learned in school and old memories are still there. I'm over 50. But, if you can't get the information in short term memory it will never be able to be stored in long term. My job involves meeting, mostly casually, 1000's of people over a 10 year period. Some of these people will come up to me and say Hi like they were old friends. I don't know them from the man in the moon.

I believe that just about everyone who takes Nardil uses something for insomnia. That is one that does not go away. Lucky for me, I am really sensitive to the histamine blockers. Diphenhydramine HCL(Benadryl) knocks me right out. I have also used micro doses of Seroquel(12.5 to 25mg) and trazodone, among others. Insomnia can and must be treated.

Most of my other side effects have dissipated with time. I actually handle Nardil really well. The other side effect that has not gone away at high doses is delayed or absent orgasm. At 60mg this is not much of a problem, at 90mg forget it.

Depression makes me feel foggy and confused! I'm much better on Nardil. And don't underestimate the social anxiety. When I am really bad, sometimes I don't even want to leave the house. Social anxiety affects every aspect of your life from relationships, to your ability to do productive work, everything. I have had this affliction since my teenage years along with the dysthymia. I self medicated with alcohol through my college years. I really wish it would have been diagnosed and treated earlier. I am sure that would have completely changed my life.

Don't get me wrong. I am not whining too loud. Many of the poor souls on this board have never found a medication that works for them. This board seems to be a place where the treatment resistant share their experiences. Those that get well, move on with their lives. I am treatment resistant, if not for Nardil I honestly do not know if I would have survived my multiple major depressions.
Good Luck in your decision,
Jedi

> is that more short-term or long-term memory?

> yeah, that's why i'm trying to think this through carefully. i tried Nardil once before for 3 months, but found the insomnia difficult to stomach. it also made me feel really foggy and confused. theoretically, it's probably the ideal drug for my cluster of issues, but the side-effects are a little difficult to stomach

 

Re: nardil users .... » jedi

Posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2010, at 10:49:05

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » g_g_g_unit, posted by jedi on June 10, 2010, at 10:01:38

Jedi I had no idea. Phillipa

 

Re: nardil users ....

Posted by julie1977 on June 11, 2010, at 7:35:54

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » jedi, posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2010, at 10:49:05

Its hard to know what can be attributed to Nardil, olanzapine, or symptoms of depression. Side effects from nardil have been: Weight gain, constipation, reduced libido and much less intense orgasms. Socially it has helped alot. As for dumbing down? Well I have a very poor short term memory, but I think I have had this for many years (Much longer than I have been on nardil).
Jedi - my diagnosis is also double depression with social anxiety, and I have tried about twenty different drugs/combinations, and have found nardil combined with olanz to be the best so far, though by no means a magic solution (I've currently been depressed and off work for the last few days)

 

Re: nardil users .... » julie1977

Posted by jedi on June 11, 2010, at 12:38:57

In reply to Re: nardil users ...., posted by julie1977 on June 11, 2010, at 7:35:54

Julie,
I also have residual dysthymia quite often, even though the Nardil pretty much keeps me out of major depression. I really want to add a small dose of methylphenidate or modafinal to up the dopamine just a little. I think this might help. My GP won't do it and I have to travel 150 miles to see a decent PDOC. I think if I could get established on it, my GP would continue to prescribe it. Small risk of hypertensive episode, but I think it might help the residual dysthymia. I have used bupropion in the past with Nardil. Even though contraindicated, I had no problem with it and it seemed to help with the dysthymia. What we go through!
Be Well,
Jedi


> Jedi - my diagnosis is also double depression with social anxiety, and I have tried about twenty different drugs/combinations, and have found nardil combined with olanz to be the best so far, though by no means a magic solution (I've currently been depressed and off work for the last few days)

 

Re: nardil users ....

Posted by annabamma on June 14, 2010, at 10:43:20

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » julie1977, posted by jedi on June 11, 2010, at 12:38:57

Jedi- Just out of curiosity, why did you stop taking the bupropion (sp?) with the Nardil if it was working ? I have atyp./ dysth. depression also and it is so hard to figure out...that fact alone is depressing...!

 

Re: nardil users .... » annabamma

Posted by jedi on June 15, 2010, at 0:29:05

In reply to Re: nardil users ...., posted by annabamma on June 14, 2010, at 10:43:20

> Jedi- Just out of curiosity, why did you stop taking the bupropion (sp?) with the Nardil if it was working ? I have atyp./ dysth. depression also and it is so hard to figure out...that fact alone is depressing...!


I went to see supposedly one of the top PDOCs in the country. He nixed the combination. Probably read about it in the PDR (LMAO). Put me on high dose Prozac and said to come back to the University for ECT when that didn't work. I'm saving ECT for the last resort, just before the long dirt nap!

It took me quite a while to find a Doctor to but me back on Nardil after that. I live in a small community and the mental health options are dismal. There are hundreds of MDs in this town. The yellow pages lists one PDOC.

Anyway, I was on high dosage Nardil and high dosage bupropion when my PDOC retired. When you are taking a contraindicated combination of medications, you don't want the doctor prescribing it to retire!

Nardil does affect dopamine, but I think just a touch more would help me.

Be well,
Jedi

 

Re: nardil users ....Jedi

Posted by stargazer2 on June 15, 2010, at 20:50:07

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » g_g_g_unit, posted by jedi on June 10, 2010, at 10:01:38

I was just reading your post and we sound like twins. Depression in my teens, not treated until I was 30, Nardil was the first med that worked but then it stopped and I was in bad shape for years. MArplan worked but then was taken off the market in 1993, so that really messed me up. And then from 1993 to 2001, took every med known to man and this resulted in years being lost to drug trials and I did not have good results.

I have combined Nardil with Wellbutrin after consulting a doc at Mclean Hospital in Boston who said it was fine to do.

I also have combined Nardil with tiny doses of generic Adderall (dextro apmphetamine).

I have taken Seroquel 12.5 for insomnia too.

Don't our histories sound similar?

Star

 

Re: nardil users » stargazer2

Posted by jedi on June 16, 2010, at 14:50:04

In reply to Re: nardil users ....Jedi, posted by stargazer2 on June 15, 2010, at 20:50:07

Hi Star,
It sure seems like we have been through a lot of the same experiences. I was first treated for the dysthymia in my mid 30s, a few years after Prozac was approved by the FDA. None of the SSRIs did anything for me. When my first major depression hit, at age 40, I was lucky enough to find a PDOC who tried me on Nardil after the usual SSRI/TCA routine. This guy was good, but of course moved away from our small community soon after that.

Nardil has always seemed to work for me for the major depressions. But because of the side effects and the residual dysthymia I was always looking for the magic combination. Because of my limited choice of PDOCS, I was very limited in my ability to get any of them to augment Nardil. I was forced to do a lot of my own research, present it to my GP, and then try to get them to try my suggestions. Several times I was forced to quit Nardil just because no one was willing to augment it. I actually started the bupropion/Nardil combination myself after doing countless hours of research on it. Once I was using it, I was able to get my current PDOC to continue it. Of course, he then retired, same old story... I always thought that the right doctor, like someone from Mclean, would be able to find the right combination for me.

Right now I am back on Nardil at 75mg, I have reduced my clonazepam to 1mg. I am going to stay there for a while, then reduce the Nardil down to 60mg. This seems to be the minimum dosage for me that is still effective, and minimizes the side effects. After that, I would like to be able to decrease the clonazepam down to .5mg, eventually eliminating it sometime in the future. I think I have to resign myself to being a lifer on Nardil. Every time I have been off of it over the past 12 years the major depression has returned in a matter of months.

Yes, I adjust my own medications. I know this is not the correct way to do the job, but there are absolutely no PDOCS in our community. Hundreds of doctors and no psychiatrists, unless you are on Medicaid or some other program. I like my GP, but I have taught him most of what he knows about MAOIs. I assure you I have studied MAOIs ten times more than any GP in this community. It's my excuse, I know.

I need to do some research and find the best PDOC in my state. There are a couple of major universities within 150 miles. I really need to find someone who knows MAOIs inside and out and is willing to augment them. I can't afford to fly out of state so I think I'm pretty much stuck with the 150 mile driving range.

My main problem after the Nardil has kicked in on the major depression and social anxiety is motivation. I have a list of projects as long as my arm. Things I need to get done, things I have to get done, things I used to have no trouble doing. They just seem to get procrastinated to another day. I hate anxiety, but I think I used to use that anxiety for motivation. That's why I believe a small dose of stimulant, added to the Nardil, might just help me. The only MD who will to prescribe this will be someone with a lot of experience with MAOIs. I need to find one of them.

Anyway Star, good luck in your pursuit of wellness. If you or anyone else has any suggestions for me, they would be greatly appreciated.

Be Well,
Jedi

> I was just reading your post and we sound like twins. Depression in my teens, not treated until I was 30, Nardil was the first med that worked but then it stopped and I was in bad shape for years. MArplan worked but then was taken off the market in 1993, so that really messed me up. And then from 1993 to 2001, took every med known to man and this resulted in years being lost to drug trials and I did not have good results.
>
> I have combined Nardil with Wellbutrin after consulting a doc at Mclean Hospital in Boston who said it was fine to do.
>
> I also have combined Nardil with tiny doses of generic Adderall (dextro apmphetamine).
>
> I have taken Seroquel 12.5 for insomnia too.
>
> Don't our histories sound similar?
>
> Star

 

Re: nardil users .... » jedi

Posted by jade k on June 16, 2010, at 16:37:25

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » annabamma, posted by jedi on June 15, 2010, at 0:29:05

> I'm saving ECT for the last resort, just before the long dirt nap!

Jedi,

Your posts make me laugh.

MAOI + dopamine + healthy sense of humor. If that doesn't work (it will) I'll be joining you for that ECT...

~Jade

 

Re: nardil users .... » jade k

Posted by jedi on June 16, 2010, at 23:12:02

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » jedi, posted by jade k on June 16, 2010, at 16:37:25

Thanks Jade,
My atypical depression showing itself. Your compliment made my day!

Atypical Features:
a) Mood reactivity (i.e., mood brightens in response to actual or potential positive events)(DSM-IV-TR) Wikipedia

Thanks again,
Jedi


> Your posts make me laugh.
>
> MAOI + dopamine + healthy sense of humor. If that doesn't work (it will) I'll be joining you for that ECT...
>
> ~Jade
>
>

 

Re: nardil users .... » jedi

Posted by tom2228 on June 18, 2010, at 17:55:58

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » jade k, posted by jedi on June 16, 2010, at 23:12:02

Hey Jedi,

Have you ever tried Parnate? Supposedly it's more stimulating than Nardil as it's got some norepinephrine + dopamine releasing agent along with the MAOI. Apparently it has less sexual side-effects than nardil too, but Ive never been on either so I can't really say.

If you can't get the ritalin... what about adding a bit of emsam? Yea, that would be being on 2 MAOIs but selegiline is only selective for MAO-B at the 6mg/24hr dose.. so I believe you'd just get more of a dopamine affect. I'm no expert but I can't see how that would be particularly dangerous (unless there's some pharmacokinetic metabolism interaction). Correct me if I'm wrong..

Anyways the 6mg/24 is what I'll be starting on Sunday!! Like you I'm blessed with social anxiety and chronic dysthymia, but with a bipolar flair so call it cyclothymia if you will. And ADHD. Im only 18 and emsam will by my 18th med!

Currently on Vyvanse and trileptal but today is the last day on the Vyv as I take the journey to MAOI land. Stims arent that risky w/ just MAOI-B but I'm very sensitive to them already -- hopefully Selegiline and its amphetamine metabolites will be all I need for ADHD coverage. The trileptal is contraindicated with MAOIs but after talking with my doc we're going to stay with it and just half the dose. It works and doesn't fog me up too bad so we agreed the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of the latter.

If 6mg doesn't work we'll cross into MAO-A territory with the 9 or 12mg and cut out the tyramine. If that doesn't work Parnate is next but we both think Emsam would be the best MAOI option for the ADHD.

 

Re: nardil users .... » jedi

Posted by former poster on June 21, 2010, at 19:52:18

In reply to Re: nardil users .... » g_g_g_unit, posted by jedi on June 10, 2010, at 0:22:26

I spent 15 years on Nardil/Klonopin combo. The last 4 years Dextroamphetamine was added to the mix with amazing results. I think the only damage that was done is the dependence on the 3 meds. I stopped the Nardil because of the sexual side effects. Then the Pdoc and I were concerned about addiction of the Dextroamphetamine and discontinued that as well.


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