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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by theconfusedone on May 27, 2010, at 12:59:00
Hi, I've been on Zopiclone 7.5mgs over a year and I'm starting to find that I need at least 2 a night to get to sleep or one to have a nap..
I do feel tired during the day but my uncontrollable anxiety prevents me from napping. This is every day, I always looked forward to a nap in the past but now it's impossible unless I take a tab.
I've only been prescribed a months supply of 7.5mgs and they are running short.
Should I try and kick them altogether or go back to the psychc and tell him the truth??
They just keep telling me to do more exercise which I am doing.
He will not prescribe me anything stronger as I've had problems in the past benzos.
I don't know how much longer I can go on feeling like this, I have contemplated suicide on many occasions..
I rang the day hospital today and was met by a frosty reception from the district nurse as if she doesn't believe me... I felt so bad after the call and I'm starting to feel that they think I'm trying to get one over on them...
I am so unhapppy with it all.
Is it possible that the zopiclone could be causing all this anxiety???
Anybody else suffer anything similar while on this???
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2010, at 13:43:39
In reply to Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 27, 2010, at 12:59:00
Sounds like your're in England where benzos are frowned upon. I took it with benzos and then just stopped the z and continue to take benzos. Tough over there. As I've never increased doseages. Maybe not nap? Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2010, at 14:35:42
In reply to Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 27, 2010, at 12:59:00
>I do feel tired during the day but my uncontrollable anxiety prevents me from napping.
I think you need to discuss this with your doctor. Long term use of sleeping tablets can cause daytime anxiety because withdrawal symptoms can occur between doses. You may feel extremely anxious and tense.
You really do need to consider coming off zopiclone. It is not an ideal drug to be taking on a long term basis. Ask your doctor to prescribe the low strength 3.75mg tablets, this will make it easier to reduce the dose. You could initially take 3 x 3.75mg tablets at night, then two, then one, then stop. It won't be easy but you will probably feel much better within a few weeks of stopping. Your doctor may prescribe you a sedating antidepressant such as mirtazapine to help you sleep.
Good luck.
Posted by theconfusedone on May 28, 2010, at 13:35:04
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!! » theconfusedone, posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2010, at 13:43:39
> Sounds like your're in England where benzos are frowned upon. Phillipa
I'm in Ireland Phillipa but I would say the same applies here..
Posted by theconfusedone on May 28, 2010, at 13:44:03
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2010, at 14:35:42
> I think you need to discuss this with your doctor. Long term use of sleeping tablets can cause daytime anxiety because withdrawal symptoms can occur between doses. You may feel extremely anxious and tense.
>
Last night I didn't take my normal Zopiclone tab, instead I took a Dalmapam 30mg which I got from a friend..
I slept like a baby and even got back to sleep on awaking without any med.
I also had zero anxiety today, this is the first time in a year that I've had a day without it.
Would you think this maybe only a coincidence or is it likely it was the zopiclone??
My friend also gave me a packet of Sleepeaze 50mgs which are an over the counter sleeping aid from Boots in England.
Anybody ever try them???
I've made an appointment with psych. on tuesday also to discuss everything.
Posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2010, at 21:00:53
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 28, 2010, at 13:44:03
Dalmanpine sp? I've not heard of that med. Ireland what a lovely country. Good luck with the doc. Phillipa
Posted by theconfusedone on May 29, 2010, at 1:46:05
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!! » theconfusedone, posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2010, at 21:00:53
> Dalmanpine sp? I've not heard of that med.
The active ingredient is FLURAZEPAM..
Did you ever try the over the counter Sleepeaze tabs Phillipa?
Just wondering if they are effective as I really dont want to go down the route of benzos because I have a tendency to abuse when my anxiety gets very bad.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 29, 2010, at 13:10:08
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 28, 2010, at 13:44:03
>Would you think this maybe only a coincidence or is it likely it was the zopiclone?
I don't think it's a coincidence. Flurazepam is very long acting and produces a sedating/anxiolytic effect the following day. Also, it will reduce zopiclone withdrawal symptoms, if they were they] problem. I think it would be useful to ask your doctor to prescribe a long acting benzo instead of zopiclone, and then to reduce gradually. If you have had issues with misuse the past, you should ask the doctor to prescribe small quantities at once and have frequent reviews.
>My friend also gave me a packet of Sleepeaze 50mgs which are an over the counter sleeping aid from Boots in England.It's diphenhydramine, a sedating antihistamine. It can help you sleep at first but it tends to become ineffective after a few days of consecutive use. I don't think it would affect your daytime anxiety very much.
Posted by theconfusedone on May 29, 2010, at 13:39:26
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 29, 2010, at 13:10:08
I think it would be useful to ask your doctor to prescribe a long acting benzo instead of zopiclone, and then to reduce gradually. If you have had issues with misuse the past, you should ask the doctor to prescribe small quantities at once and have frequent reviews.
>
Hi Ed and thank you for your reply, could you tell me what would be considered as a long acting benzo and would that be to replace zopiclone for sleep or just to get me over withdrawal period.
My Doc seems to think that zopiclone are completely non-addictive.
It's only since I've done some research I've noticed that others have had problems as well with them...
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 29, 2010, at 14:43:35
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 29, 2010, at 13:39:26
>could you tell me what would be considered as a long acting benzo and would that be to replace zopiclone for sleep or just to get me over withdrawal period
Diazepam is used most frequently as an aid to withdrawal. It would only be to get you over the withdrawal, not to take in the long term. I wouldn't recommend taking it for more than about three weeks.
>My Doc seems to think that zopiclone are completely non-addictive.
Oh dear! Unfortunately, that is not the case. The risk of dependence seems to be relatively low if it's not used for more than 4 weeks. Long term use can lead to dependence.
The UK information sheet for zopiclone states...
'Withdrawal syndrome has been reported upon discontinuation of zopiclone. Withdrawal symptoms vary and may include insomnia, anxiety, tremor, sweating, agitation, confusion, headache, palpitations, tachycardia, delirium, nightmares, hallucinations, panic attacks, muscle aches/cramps, gastrointestinal disturbances and irritability.'
Posted by theconfusedone on May 29, 2010, at 15:24:06
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 29, 2010, at 14:43:35
>
> >My Doc seems to think that zopiclone are completely non-addictive.
>
> Oh dear! Unfortunately, that is not the case. The risk of dependence seems to be relatively low if it's not used for more than 4 weeks. Long term use can lead to dependence.
>
> The UK information sheet for zopiclone states...
>
> 'Withdrawal syndrome has been reported upon discontinuation of zopiclone. Withdrawal symptoms vary and may include insomnia, anxiety, tremor, sweating, agitation, confusion, headache, palpitations, tachycardia, delirium, nightmares, hallucinations, panic attacks, muscle aches/cramps, gastrointestinal disturbances and irritability.'Well Ed, that seems to figure, I could possibly tick some of those boxes if not all and that's only between night time doses. I just cant imagine what it will be like stopping them all together.
I still have 2 more dalmapam 30 for the next two nights until I get to see doc as I am frightened to take zopiclone now at this stage.
I know the dalmapam have probably worse withdrawals if abused but I don't intend to but this doc I have will be the cause of me having to source meds elsewhere thus feeding into the addiction cycle. I just cant handle this anxiety for much longer..
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 30, 2010, at 3:06:06
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 29, 2010, at 15:24:06
>I know the dalmapam have probably worse withdrawals if abused but I don't intend to but this doc I have will be the cause of me having to source meds elsewhere thus feeding into the addiction cycle. I just cant handle this anxiety for much longer.
Is this a psychiatrist or a GP? You really need someone who is willing to prescribe benzos in small quantities, review you regularly and help you taper off. Is there anyone else you can see?
Posted by theconfusedone on May 30, 2010, at 4:42:30
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!! » theconfusedone, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 30, 2010, at 3:06:06
> Is this a psychiatrist or a GP? You really need someone who is willing to prescribe benzos in small quantities, review you regularly and help you taper off. Is there anyone else you can see?
>
> It's a psychiatrist, my GP is not allowed get involved with my meds only to write the prescriptions under the instructions from psych..
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 30, 2010, at 15:08:52
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 30, 2010, at 4:42:30
I would have thought that a psychiatrist would be aware of the risk of dependence with Zimovane. Strange.
Posted by theconfusedone on May 31, 2010, at 15:21:41
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!! » theconfusedone, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 30, 2010, at 15:08:52
> I would have thought that a psychiatrist would be aware of the risk of dependence with Zimovane. Strange.
> Believe it or not Ed, last year when I told him I was finding it difficult to sleep on 7.5mgs he said then take two a night, they are safe to take and he wrote a script for it..
>
Posted by ed_uk2010 on June 1, 2010, at 13:19:13
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on May 31, 2010, at 15:21:41
> Believe it or not Ed, last year when I told him I was finding it difficult to sleep on 7.5mgs he said then take two a night, they are safe to take and he wrote a script for it.
There has been a change in the dosage recommendations for Zimovane. When Zimovane was first approved (many years ago), the 15mg dose was licensed for patients who found the 7.5mg dose too weak. Now, exceeding 7.5mg at night is not recommended.
Posted by theconfusedone on June 5, 2010, at 12:48:57
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!! » theconfusedone, posted by ed_uk2010 on June 1, 2010, at 13:19:13
Just wondering, down the line should I need to take zopiclone again, can I expect the same symptoms to return immediately or does it take time to build back up again???
Posted by ed_uk2010 on June 7, 2010, at 14:44:16
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on June 5, 2010, at 12:48:57
> Just wondering, down the line should I need to take zopiclone again, can I expect the same symptoms to return immediately or does it take time to build back up again???
If you take it occasionally you will be fine. Long-term nightly use is what causes the problems.
Posted by humanPDR on June 8, 2010, at 9:44:23
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!! » theconfusedone, posted by ed_uk2010 on June 7, 2010, at 14:44:16
Zopiclone, one of the Z-drugs, can absolutely cause physical dependence. It is a GABA-A agonist that actually binds to the benzodiazepine binding site just like valium et al. Add to that the short half-life of roughly 6 hours, and prolonged use will absolutely produce physical dependence, which is the cause of your daytime anxiety and inability to sleep without it. During the day, you are actually experiencing withdrawal symptoms, b/c the drug is metabolized so quickly, unlike valium which has a very long half-life.
If you detox cold-turkey, you will likely have TERRIBLE insomnia and possibly even full-blown benzo-type withdrawal symptoms. Find some reputable online sources describing physical dependence to zopiclone and show your doc (who seems like an absolute MORON). Ideally you should be given valium (diazepam) as a replacement for sleep and then slowly decrease the dose over 1-2 months and you should experience little to no withdrawal symptoms. Open a pharmacology textbook and you will see that zopiclone binds to the SAME GABA-A receptor site as all benzos, so it can definitely produce physical dependence.
EDUCATE YOUR DOC!!!
HOW TO DETOX:
DO NOT detox cold-turkey or you will be in agony--get at least 1 month supply of 5-10 mg valium anyway you can (go to 10 docs if need be).
Use the MINIMAL dose at bedtime that lets you sleep and alleviates daytime anxiety (it has a very long half-life). If possible, only dose at bedtime. Then each 1-2 weeks decrease dose by 1-2mg until you are only taking like .5 then continue on that until you run out.hope this helps--also there are some good online sources detailing how to taper from benzos. Those might give you some more insight/info as well.
A doc who doesn't know the pharmacology of what he is prescribing deserves to have his licence revoked.
Posted by theconfusedone on June 9, 2010, at 1:54:32
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by humanPDR on June 8, 2010, at 9:44:23
> Zopiclone, one of the Z-drugs, can absolutely cause physical dependence. It is a GABA-A agonist that actually binds to the benzodiazepine binding site just like valium et al. Add to that the short half-life of roughly 6 hours, and prolonged use will absolutely produce physical dependence, which is the cause of your daytime anxiety and inability to sleep without it. During the day, you are actually experiencing withdrawal symptoms, b/c the drug is metabolized so quickly, unlike valium which has a very long half-life.
>
> If you detox cold-turkey, you will likely have TERRIBLE insomnia and possibly even full-blown benzo-type withdrawal symptoms. Find some reputable online sources describing physical dependence to zopiclone and show your doc (who seems like an absolute MORON). Ideally you should be given valium (diazepam) as a replacement for sleep and then slowly decrease the dose over 1-2 months and you should experience little to no withdrawal symptoms. Open a pharmacology textbook and you will see that zopiclone binds to the SAME GABA-A receptor site as all benzos, so it can definitely produce physical dependence.
>
> EDUCATE YOUR DOC!!!
>
> HOW TO DETOX:
> DO NOT detox cold-turkey or you will be in agony--get at least 1 month supply of 5-10 mg valium anyway you can (go to 10 docs if need be).
> Use the MINIMAL dose at bedtime that lets you sleep and alleviates daytime anxiety (it has a very long half-life). If possible, only dose at bedtime. Then each 1-2 weeks decrease dose by 1-2mg until you are only taking like .5 then continue on that until you run out.
>
> hope this helps--also there are some good online sources detailing how to taper from benzos. Those might give you some more insight/info as well.
>
>
> A doc who doesn't know the pharmacology of what he is prescribing deserves to have his licence revoked.
>Thank you so much for the the info HumanPDR, I agree with you he is a moran and is retiring very soon.. I will have a chat with him about this and try and get something else although I haven't touched one in a week now.. I have used other meds instead but I dont have any more now only Sleepeeze.. My sleep is bad but anxiety is so much better now.
Posted by humanPDR on June 9, 2010, at 8:54:56
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on June 9, 2010, at 1:54:32
no prob
glad to hear that your anxiety seems to be abating. B/c zopiclone has a short half-life and isn't an extremely "hard-hitting" drug (like a barbiturate for example), you would expect withdrawals to be short-lived as well, and altogether not TOO serious (seizures etc). Seems as though the worst is over. There may be some lingering insomnia but that will go away soon as well.Congrats on a successful detox--everyone who goes through one deserves a purple heart IMHO.
Posted by theconfusedone on June 13, 2010, at 4:12:07
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by humanPDR on June 9, 2010, at 8:54:56
> no prob
> glad to hear that your anxiety seems to be abating. B/c zopiclone has a short half-life and isn't an extremely "hard-hitting" drug (like a barbiturate for example), you would expect withdrawals to be short-lived as well, and altogether not TOO serious (seizures etc). Seems as though the worst is over. There may be some lingering insomnia but that will go away soon as well.
>
> Congrats on a successful detox--everyone who goes through one deserves a purple heart IMHO.> Thank you again Human but if things got really bad with insomnia would it be ok in your opinion to take a half a tab on the odd night or should I expect the same anxiety return the following morning?????
If so I wont chance it..
Posted by Humanpdr on June 13, 2010, at 6:56:36
In reply to Re: Zopiclone addiction!!, posted by theconfusedone on June 13, 2010, at 4:12:07
It's hard to say. Most likely you wouldn't get the rebound anxiety...even though you are no longer physically dependent, however, you may still experience withdrawal-like symptoms after a single dose. The mechanism is not well understood, but basically relates to your GABAergic system still "accustomed" to the drug. Sometimes these side effects take weeks or months to subside fully, long after you actually break the classical addiction. Only way to know for sure is to try it, but be careful not to slip back into nightly use. Cheers
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