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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2006, at 15:42:26
In reply to Re: Baclofen (Lioresal) for social anxiety }} Ed, posted by sdb on November 15, 2006, at 13:36:52
>listen still to albinoni
Excellent :) I hope it is bringing you health S :)
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2006, at 15:43:11
In reply to Re: Baclofen (Lioresal) for social anxiety, posted by Quintal on November 11, 2006, at 17:04:31
Hi Q
Which barbiturate did you try? What was your experience?
Ed
Posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 16:32:08
In reply to Re: Baclofen (Lioresal) for social anxiety » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2006, at 15:43:11
> Hi Q
>
> Which barbiturate did you try? What was your experience?
>
> EdHi Ed,
I tried Phenobarbital. I'm not going to state my original intention for buying it, but I tried it later during clonazepam withdrawal in the hope of reducing symptoms and seizures. Phenobarbital strangely had little effect on the withdrawal syndrome but made me feel very leaden and heavily sedated, and in a bad way. Similar to the room-spinning sensation you get when you know you've gone way past your alcohol vomit limit and the 'it's all downhill from here' toilet-hugging feeling of doom.
I don't see why anyone would use it recreationally and it seems to have little therapeutic value for mental illness. I would be interested to try Nembutal (pentobarbital) for insomnia though as there is a good rating of it over at www.remedyfind.com by a guy called Auban. The benzos were a definite improvement IMHO.
Q
Posted by christophrejmc on November 15, 2006, at 16:49:24
In reply to Re: Baclofen (Lioresal) for social anxiety, posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 16:32:08
> Phenobarbital strangely had little effect on the withdrawal syndrome but made me feel very leaden and heavily sedated, and in a bad way. Similar to the room-spinning sensation you get when you know you've gone way past your alcohol vomit limit and the 'it's all downhill from here' toilet-hugging feeling of doom.A lot of people report the same thing. It's one of the long-acting barbs and perhaps the least likely to be abused.
Posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 17:55:57
In reply to Re: Baclofen (Lioresal) for social anxiety, posted by christophrejmc on November 15, 2006, at 16:49:24
> A lot of people report the same thing. It's one of the long-acting barbs and perhaps the least likely to be abused.
That reminds me of the long acting benzo nitrazepam (Mogadon) now you mention it. It made me feel very spaced out and I kept falling out of bed every morning for some reason. That wasn't a problem with diazepam though and that is one of the longest acting benzos according to Ms. Ashton's equivalence chart.
Do you have any experience with barbs yourself christophrejmc? I have heard of a few lone gun pdocs still prescribing them occasionally and there are always pharmacy raids of course. I suppose a short acting barb may be fun to some people, but I've always found benzos to be more pleasurable myself.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2006, at 12:50:26
In reply to Barbs and Benzos, posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 17:55:57
Hi
Phenobarbital is quite different to the barbiturate hynotics. Its subjective effects are different. Pheno is the only barb which is a powerful anticonvulsant at sub-hypnotic doses.
>Phenobarbital strangely had little effect on the withdrawal syndrome but made me feel very leaden and heavily sedated, and in a bad way.
Pheno and the other barbiturates act at different receptors to the benzos. The use of pheno to treat benzo withdrawal symptoms does not appear to be a good idea.
>The benzos were a definite improvement IMHO
In most cases, definitely.
>I suppose a short acting barb may be fun to some people, but I've always found benzos to be more pleasurable myself.
I think most people would find the same thing. Barbs are probably no more likely than benzos to be euphoric.
Regards
Ed
Posted by sdb on November 16, 2006, at 13:58:16
In reply to Re: Baclofen (Lioresal) for social anxiety }} Ed » sdb, posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2006, at 15:42:26
> >listen still to albinoni
>
> Excellent :) I hope it is bringing you health S :)
>
> Edalbinoni has no side effects. Except good ones :-)
It sounds curious but I listen to king of pop Michael Jackson during exercise sometimes. It's energizing for me.~S
Posted by Quintal on November 16, 2006, at 15:11:59
In reply to Re: Barbs and Benzos » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2006, at 12:50:26
Hi Ed,
>Phenobarbital is quite different to the barbiturate hypnotics. Its subjective effects are different. Pheno is the only barb which is a powerful anticonvulsant at sub-hypnotic doses.
Its analogue mephobarbital and related drug metharbital are also useful barbiturate anticonvulsants ;-)
>Pheno and the other barbiturates act at different receptors to the benzos.
I wonder if that is why alcohol does not work for me any more (in fact I find it quite repulsive since withdrawing from benzos)?
> The use of pheno to treat benzo withdrawal symptoms does not appear to be a good idea.
My experience would confirm that to anyone thinking otherwise. I had some Neurontin, Baclofen and Phenobarbital and after the first two had little effect Pb was my last resort, the logic being that it would raise GABA and thereby help me feel calmer and help me sleep, which seems reasonable when you consider its general depressant action.
Do you think it is the benzodiazepine receptor that creates those feelings of emotional warmth and safety that I associate with clonazepam? I've noticed this effect is far from universal as an online friend recently started clonazepam and he plunged immediately into a deep depression. Clonazepam continues to have that effect on him now no matter how small the dose. I'm wondering if that effect is at least partly due to anticipation now?
I've suggested Xanax in the hope it will have some antidepressant action, but he now has his heart set on Solian. Xanx had hardly any effect on me, can you shed any light on the pharmacology behind these different reactions Ed?
Q
Posted by christophrejmc on November 16, 2006, at 20:35:46
In reply to Barbs and Benzos, posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 17:55:57
> That wasn't a problem with diazepam though and that is one of the longest acting benzos according to Ms. Ashton's equivalence chart.
I think that the really long acting metabolites in Valium are not in very large concentrations and/or are not very potent. I know that some of them have ridiculously long half-lives, though. Maybe my body is just weird, but I can take a large amount of Valium and feel just fine the morning after; but if I take even .25mg of Klonopin, I'll be extremely groggy and getting out of bed will be torture.
> Do you have any experience with barbs yourself christophrejmc?No, unfortunately not. I recently (as in, 2 years ago) had some problems with opioid addiction, which my pdoc knows all about, so I've been having trouble even getting a script for Lyrica. She'll give me all the Dexedrine and Xanax I want, but getting anything off-label or slightly unconventional is nearly impossible.
> I suppose a short acting barb may be fun to some people, but I've always found benzos to be more pleasurable myself.
Interesting, in all the years I've taken them, I've never found benzos pleasurable at all.
-CJMC
Posted by Quintal on November 16, 2006, at 21:49:23
In reply to Re: Barbs and Benzos » Quintal, posted by christophrejmc on November 16, 2006, at 20:35:46
I had some opioid addiction problems myself (tramadol) and withdrew cold turkey at the same time as Klonopin. I am very interested in Lyrica myself but the GP refuses to prescribe it (even though there is a licence for GAD over here) on the grounds that she has no experience with it. I've heard Lyrica sometimes causes a euphoric MDMA-like reaction and it sounds like the feeling I often had on Klonopin. A sort of warm 'all-is-well with-the-world' sense of well-being, not too dissimilar to opiates in fact.
Good luck with the Lyrica.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2006, at 14:14:33
In reply to Re: Baclofen + albinoni }} Ed (nm), posted by sdb on November 16, 2006, at 13:58:16
>It sounds curious but I listen to king of pop Michael Jackson during exercise sometimes. It's energizing for me.
Billie Jean?
ed
Posted by sdb on November 20, 2006, at 16:48:16
In reply to Re: Baclofen + albinoni }} Ed » sdb, posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2006, at 14:14:33
1. Beat it
2. I'll be there
3. Billie Jean, P. Y. T.
4. othersAnd there's more MJ (4.) on my mp3-player.
~S
> >It sounds curious but I listen to king of pop Michael Jackson during exercise sometimes. It's energizing for me.
>
> Billie Jean?
>
> ed
>
Posted by kingcolon on November 20, 2006, at 17:02:03
In reply to Re: Baclofen + M. Jackson }} Ed (nm), posted by sdb on November 20, 2006, at 16:48:16
Could we change the name of this thread? Baclofen hasn't been mentioned in a long time. Thanks.
Posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2006, at 15:14:36
In reply to Change of thread name » sdb, posted by kingcolon on November 20, 2006, at 17:02:03
hmmm
ed
Posted by christophrejmc on November 21, 2006, at 15:18:58
In reply to Change of thread name » sdb, posted by kingcolon on November 20, 2006, at 17:02:03
Are you saying Michael Jackson has nothing to do with GABA<sub>B</sub> agonists? That's cynical.
Posted by sdb on November 21, 2006, at 16:54:55
In reply to Re: Change of thread name » kingcolon, posted by christophrejmc on November 21, 2006, at 15:18:58
Michael Jackson beats some multiple targets in the brain. But you can't take him in a capsule. Why not Michael Jackson redirect and healing the world in the alternative-babble?
sdb
> Are you saying Michael Jackson has nothing to do with GABA<sub>B</sub> agonists? That's cynical.
Posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 16:10:22
In reply to Re: Barbs and Benzos » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2006, at 12:50:26
> Hi
>
> Phenobarbital is quite different to the barbiturate hynotics. Its subjective effects are different. Pheno is the only barb which is a powerful anticonvulsant at sub-hypnotic doses.
>
> >Phenobarbital strangely had little effect on the withdrawal syndrome but made me feel very leaden and heavily sedated, and in a bad way.
>
> Pheno and the other barbiturates act at different receptors to the benzos. The use of pheno to treat benzo withdrawal symptoms does not appear to be a good idea.
It seems the use of phenobarbital for benzo detox was once common!--------------------------------------------------
17. MY DOCTOR HAS ASKED ME TO SWITCH TO A DRUG CALLED "PHENOBARBITAL" FOR DETOXIFICATION. IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?No. Although this method of "detoxification" is commonly practised in the USA, it has long been abandoned in the UK and is even regarded by some authorities as barbaric. It is best avoided.
--------------------------------------------------http://www.benzo.org.uk/FAQ1.1.htm
Q
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2006, at 10:52:47
In reply to Phenobarbital as a benzo detox » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 16:10:22
> It seems the use of phenobarbital for benzo detox was once common!
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding benzo detox to Psycho-Babble Withdrawal. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20061010/msgs/715851.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by stevie3 on May 12, 2010, at 12:00:24
In reply to Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety!, posted by Tom Twilight on October 25, 2006, at 12:34:58
Are you sure that medications are the pest option for social anxiety, for me they have done no good whatsoever.
Posted by stevie3 on May 12, 2010, at 12:01:38
In reply to Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety!, posted by Tom Twilight on October 25, 2006, at 12:34:58
Are you sure that medications are the pest option for social anxiety, for me they have done no good whatsoever.
Posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 15:45:34
In reply to Re: Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety!, posted by stevie3 on May 12, 2010, at 12:01:38
Hi Stevie,
Everybody is different, but for me 90mg of phenelzine(Nardil) + 2mg of clonazepam(Klonopin) knocks social anxiety on it's butt. There are a lot of people afraid of benzodiazapines and MAOIs, however, social anxiety is a debilitating illness. It keeps people from reaching their full potential in work and social situations. It puts some people in bed, never to even attempt social interactions.Of course I wish I could do it without medications such as Nardil and clonazepam. They both have side effects that have to be weighed against the benefits. But, for me, these two medications act synergistically to combat my treatment resistant atypical depression and social anxiety. I will start a conversation with a complete stranger. That would not of happened before the medications.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by stevie3 on May 13, 2010, at 13:37:15
In reply to Re: Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety! » stevie3, posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 15:45:34
Thanks for the reply, it really motivated me to try some medications again, maybe. Say have you noticed any side effects with Nardil ?
Posted by jedi on May 18, 2010, at 17:51:19
In reply to Re: Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety!, posted by stevie3 on May 13, 2010, at 13:37:15
> Thanks for the reply, it really motivated me to try some medications again, maybe. Say have you noticed any side effects with Nardil ?
>
> Stevie
> http://socialanxietycure.org/My main side effects after 12 years of on again, off again(mostly on) Nardil are weight gain, insomnia, and delayed or absent orgasm. The weight gain can usually be beat with control of carbohydrates and lots of exercise. The insomnia almost always has to be treated with something. There are treatments for delayed orgasm. At high doses orgasm can be absent.
Most of the other side effects, at least in my experience, go away with time. The orthostatic hypotension was never a problem for me. In fact Nardil acts to control my borderline high hypertension by lowering my normal BP by about 20 points. This has kept me off the beta blockers. The afternoon tiredness went away after a few months.
Nardil side effects are really dosage related for me. At 60mg I have very few, at 90mg I have substantially more.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2010, at 21:00:56
In reply to Re: Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety!, posted by stevie3 on May 12, 2010, at 12:00:24
Hello Stevie3!
Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Have you found something that works for you?
Everyone is different so meds don't help everyone.
I think they've helped my social anxiety though. Either that, or I've just grown out of most of my social anxiety. It's hard to tell what helped.
Deneb
Posted by CrAzYmEd on June 2, 2010, at 12:49:41
In reply to Re: Treatment Resistant Social Anxiety!, posted by stevie3 on May 12, 2010, at 12:00:24
> Are you sure that medications are the pest option for social anxiety, for me they have done no good whatsoever.
>
> Stevie
> http://socialanxietycure.org/Thats probably because you havent tried enough meds, there are far more options then those that you have tried.
Medication is the key for social anxiety imo.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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