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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by Katgirl on April 28, 2010, at 10:29:15
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Netch on April 28, 2010, at 9:18:19
Well, that doesn't sound good!! I'm not a "techie" so I'm not sure but I know that Remeron made me both agitated and sedated. I know Remeron works on 5HT2c receptor and so does Valdoxan. Maybe that causes the agitation??
I mainly need something for anxiety.
What are the other boards you refer to?
Posted by Netch on April 28, 2010, at 11:17:38
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Katgirl on April 28, 2010, at 10:29:15
> Well, that doesn't sound good!! I'm not a "techie" so I'm not sure but I know that Remeron made me both agitated and sedated. I know Remeron works on 5HT2c receptor and so does Valdoxan. Maybe that causes the agitation??
>
> I mainly need something for anxiety.
>
> What are the other boards you refer to?Personally I would consider Ago a sleep aid.
http://groups.google.com/group/agomelatine-psychonauts/topics
Posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 16:36:37
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Netch on April 28, 2010, at 9:18:19
>Studies have shown it be anxiolytic but I've seen on other boards people complaining about anxiety.
In doses low enough so the downstream effects do not produce anxiety (which for me to begin with was 12.5mg/d) it is quite calming.
Posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 16:38:59
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Katgirl on April 28, 2010, at 10:29:15
>I know Remeron works on 5HT2c receptor and so does Valdoxan. Maybe that causes the agitation??
I think so. But it's dose related. If you keep the dose low enough the agitation should be avoidable.
Most people want to increase the dose to experience a more robust AD effect.
Posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 16:41:02
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Netch on April 28, 2010, at 11:17:38
>Personally I would consider Ago a sleep aid.
After a year on it I find the sleep aid part of ago has somewhat gone while the dopaminergic feeling next day is still there.
Posted by Katgirl on April 28, 2010, at 17:01:49
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 16:41:02
Good to know sig. I generally take very small dosages of medications, so maybe I wouldn't have the anxiety problem.
Posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 18:03:53
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Katgirl on April 28, 2010, at 17:01:49
It is said that the AD effect of agomelatine kicks in after a few weeks.
My experience was that this coincided with the feelings of agitation I had.
I liked the effect from day one. I felt calmer.
What I'm trying to say is that if you can keep the dose lower (by which I mean maybe 12.5mg/d) you might get the calm stuff without the agitation.
The agitation wasn't that bad for me, but it really did make me feel like I needed a very stiff drink.
It wasn't like social anxiety....more a rising feeling in my chest, if that makes any sense.
Posted by Katgirl on April 28, 2010, at 18:20:57
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 18:03:53
I already have very bad physcial anxiety, so I would never want to take a drug that caused more of that!
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 12:02:20
In reply to Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Katgirl on April 27, 2010, at 10:45:53
No side effects for me. But largely uesless
Posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:40:27
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Netch on April 28, 2010, at 8:15:52
hmm i guess thats not too surprising since its such a weak 5 HT2C antagonist, I think its Ki value is 710. Prozacs Ki at that receptor is around 60.
Posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:42:44
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by sigismund on April 28, 2010, at 16:38:59
Remeron is way more potent at this receptor but also blocks the 5 HT2A and histamine receptors for sleep, and blocks the alpha 2 adrenergic receptor which can increase energy and/or agitation.
I'd really be surprised if agomelatine turns out to be a good antidepressant.
Posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:43:30
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 12:02:20
how long did you try it?
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 13:11:08
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:43:30
> how long did you try it?
Around a couple of months.
In fact my opinion now is that antidepressants are completely useless and very dangerous. I havn't met one person in real life who's completely or largely recovered from a psychiatric ilness using drugs.
Better mood, more energy and better quality of life by taking a pill? We are kidding ourselvesn. As a result of taking antidepressants, I've only become dumbed-down dull impotent version of myself. Both you and I have been drilled in *ss by psychiatrists and drug companies.
I have no faith in psychiatry. After having spent 6 months in a psychiatric hospital I can say with confidence that neither psychiatrists or psychiatric nurses have any idea what they are doing. They are useless and they don't care, they are just doing their job.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 13:30:32
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 13:11:08
Currently on 60 mg mirtazapine by the way which is also unfortunately totally useless.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 13:48:23
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:43:30
> how long did you try it?
By the way conundrum do you have a facebook account? You seem like a quality person and i'd love to have you on facebook. If you do, you can email me a link to your profile to talanarion@hotmail.com
Posted by Katgirl on April 29, 2010, at 17:02:44
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan » sigismund, posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:42:44
Alexander-
I am so sorry that none of the drugs seem to be helping you at all.
I actually was dramatically helped by Paxil when I first went on it. I was in a severe, clinical agitated depresssion and within about 4 weeks on the drug I felt great. Unfortunately, going off Paxil has left me treatment resistant/intollerant.
Conundrum- I see in your "post-script" that you have post SSRI syndrome. Did you do well when you were on SSRI's but then feel worse once you were off them? Thanks for your input on the "receptors".
Posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 17:27:31
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Katgirl on April 29, 2010, at 17:02:44
Yes, the withdrawal wasn't too nice though not as bad as some experienced on shorter acting SSRIs.
I was unable to tolerate them afterwards, it like a totally different effect.
Posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 17:34:07
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 29, 2010, at 13:48:23
Check your FB account.
Posted by Katgirl on April 30, 2010, at 7:56:40
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan » Katgirl, posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 17:27:31
Yeah, I can't take SSRI's either anymore. Have you been able to take any other types of AD's?
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2010, at 8:48:52
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/conundrum, posted by Katgirl on April 30, 2010, at 7:56:40
Hi Kat.
> Yeah, I can't take SSRI's either anymore. Have you been able to take any other types of AD's?
What do you experience with SSRIs that makes it impossible for you to take them anymore?
- Scott
Posted by conundrum on April 30, 2010, at 10:22:42
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/conundrum, posted by Katgirl on April 30, 2010, at 7:56:40
Posted by conundrum on April 30, 2010, at 11:04:34
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/conundrum (nm) » Katgirl, posted by conundrum on April 30, 2010, at 10:22:42
Shoot posted and hit the NM box. ugh.
I've tried pristiq and tolerated it ok at first when it felt mainly noradrenergic, but after a couple weeks felt just like an SSRI.
Wellbutrin didn't help and neither did ritalin.
Trying Lamictal now. Would like to try nortriptyline or desipramine but my pdoc thinks it could trigger mania. whatever, I'll see what lamictal does.
Posted by conundrum on April 30, 2010, at 11:22:32
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/conundrum » Katgirl, posted by SLS on April 30, 2010, at 8:48:52
Well number one they don't work anymore. They make me tired and spacey. Certainly don't help anhedonia and give me headaches and diarrhea and thats at lower doses!
Only a low dose of prozac helps a little with motivation but I still have anhedonia and it still gives me headaches and diarrhea. The headaches make me think its not doing anything good for my brain. I think taking a noradrenergic drug with prozac might fix that though.
Posted by Katgirl on May 1, 2010, at 8:46:36
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/conundrum » SLS, posted by conundrum on April 30, 2010, at 11:22:32
They make my anxiety worse now. Or with many of those I tried, they make me too sick to my stomach to tolerate them. Over all, they just make me sick or they don't work.
Posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 3:00:54
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan » sigismund, posted by conundrum on April 29, 2010, at 12:42:44
>Remeron is way more potent at this receptor but also blocks the 5 HT2A and histamine receptors for sleep, and blocks the alpha 2 adrenergic receptor which can increase energy and/or agitation.
Yeah, I don't really agree.
Remeron was too awful to put up with.
Agomelatine is not brilliant, but not terrible either, and therefore a considerable advance on most (if not all) psych drugs.
This is the end of the thread.
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