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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on April 25, 2010, at 5:23:51
Howdy y'all this is my first post on here.
I have never been compelled to do much research on my meds or other potential meds because I usually trust the doctors to do something that works for me but I'm starting to think differently about that and I intend to learn as much as I can to find some solutions.I have been taking welbutrin and seroquel for a couple years now and I am having more and more problems with them. I am bipolar and have a tendency to be more depressed than manic. I also have delayed sleep phase disorder.
I started taking seroquel only at night to get to sleep and that has worked for a long time but since I have started my latest regiment (300mg at night and 25/50 during the day as needed for anxiety) I have noticed all the effects fading more and more everyday. I have been getting 4 hours of sleep on average a night and have nights when I don't sleep at all. the 25 or 50 during the day has never done wonders for me (it tends to make me antisocial and grumpy)but now i barely notice it.
I think the welbutrin (200mg bupropion sr) is making me agitated, anxious, and interfering greatly with my focus. I stopped taking it for two days and I have felt calmer, but I don't want to fall into any kind of deep depression.
I am looking for a different medication that will help these symptoms. A close friend of mine has been taking trazidone (hope i spelled that ok) and he says it helps him sleep and helps anxiety alot.
he says its an AD too. so i was gonna ask my doc about that. any ideas would be great help.Thanks for taking the time to read this and thank you for any response.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2010, at 7:08:31
In reply to welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on April 25, 2010, at 5:23:51
> Howdy y'all this is my first post on here.
> I have never been compelled to do much research on my meds or other potential meds because I usually trust the doctors to do something that works for me but I'm starting to think differently about that and I intend to learn as much as I can to find some solutions.
>
> I have been taking welbutrin and seroquel for a couple years now and I am having more and more problems with them. I am bipolar and have a tendency to be more depressed than manic. I also have delayed sleep phase disorder.
>
> I started taking seroquel only at night to get to sleep and that has worked for a long time but since I have started my latest regiment (300mg at night and 25/50 during the day as needed for anxiety) I have noticed all the effects fading more and more everyday. I have been getting 4 hours of sleep on average a night and have nights when I don't sleep at all. the 25 or 50 during the day has never done wonders for me (it tends to make me antisocial and grumpy)but now i barely notice it.
>
> I think the welbutrin (200mg bupropion sr) is making me agitated, anxious, and interfering greatly with my focus. I stopped taking it for two days and I have felt calmer, but I don't want to fall into any kind of deep depression.
>
> I am looking for a different medication that will help these symptoms. A close friend of mine has been taking trazidone (hope i spelled that ok) and he says it helps him sleep and helps anxiety alot.
> he says its an AD too. so i was gonna ask my doc about that. any ideas would be great help.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this and thank you for any response.TPB,
You wrote,[...research on...trust doctors..starting to think differently..intend to learn...taking wellbutrin...more problems...thank you for any response..]
Well, what you are taking is a psychoactive chemical. In the late 1800's a chemist used a plant from Asia that has psychoactive properties. Then a chemist synthesized the chemical. The chemical in Wellbutrin is in the amphetamine class.
Now there is a wide spectrum of potential psychoactive effects from that class of drug and a predictable result from continued use. So the more you use it, the more of these effects could be more evident. Now if we learn of the effects of amphetamine-like compunds, then we could use that knowlege to determine if one wants to continue taking a chemical of that nature or not.
Now if your doctor explained that to you before you took the drug, that could have given you more infomation so that you could have made a more informed decision as to take the drug or not. Now that you have already taken the drug for some time, and if your doctor never explained the aspects of what could happen to you by taking the drug for a period of time, if more education could be available to you about these drugs, could not you be helped to make a decision as to continue the drug or not? Continued...
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2010, at 10:16:45
In reply to Lou's response-mhahaung » Techno'n'PillBottles, posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2010, at 7:08:31
> > Howdy y'all this is my first post on here.
> > I have never been compelled to do much research on my meds or other potential meds because I usually trust the doctors to do something that works for me but I'm starting to think differently about that and I intend to learn as much as I can to find some solutions.
> >
> > I have been taking welbutrin and seroquel for a couple years now and I am having more and more problems with them. I am bipolar and have a tendency to be more depressed than manic. I also have delayed sleep phase disorder.
> >
> > I started taking seroquel only at night to get to sleep and that has worked for a long time but since I have started my latest regiment (300mg at night and 25/50 during the day as needed for anxiety) I have noticed all the effects fading more and more everyday. I have been getting 4 hours of sleep on average a night and have nights when I don't sleep at all. the 25 or 50 during the day has never done wonders for me (it tends to make me antisocial and grumpy)but now i barely notice it.
> >
> > I think the welbutrin (200mg bupropion sr) is making me agitated, anxious, and interfering greatly with my focus. I stopped taking it for two days and I have felt calmer, but I don't want to fall into any kind of deep depression.
> >
> > I am looking for a different medication that will help these symptoms. A close friend of mine has been taking trazidone (hope i spelled that ok) and he says it helps him sleep and helps anxiety alot.
> > he says its an AD too. so i was gonna ask my doc about that. any ideas would be great help.
> >
> > Thanks for taking the time to read this and thank you for any response.
>
> TPB,
> You wrote,[...research on...trust doctors..starting to think differently..intend to learn...taking wellbutrin...more problems...thank you for any response..]
> Well, what you are taking is a psychoactive chemical. In the late 1800's a chemist used a plant from Asia that has psychoactive properties. Then a chemist synthesized the chemical. The chemical in Wellbutrin is in the amphetamine class.
> Now there is a wide spectrum of potential psychoactive effects from that class of drug and a predictable result from continued use. So the more you use it, the more of these effects could be more evident. Now if we learn of the effects of amphetamine-like compunds, then we could use that knowlege to determine if one wants to continue taking a chemical of that nature or not.
> Now if your doctor explained that to you before you took the drug, that could have given you more infomation so that you could have made a more informed decision as to take the drug or not. Now that you have already taken the drug for some time, and if your doctor never explained the aspects of what could happen to you by taking the drug for a period of time, if more education could be available to you about these drugs, could not you be helped to make a decision as to continue the drug or not? Continued...
> Lou
>
> TPB,
Now as for the drug Seroquel, you could do a google search like:[Seroquel, lawsuit], and see what this drug can do to someone.
The chemical in the drug is a thiazepine. Also piperazinyl. (redacted by respondent} as used in ancient (redacted by respondent).
Lou
Posted by polarbear206 on April 25, 2010, at 10:29:07
In reply to welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on April 25, 2010, at 5:23:51
Glad you have decided to be more proactive about your medication and education. Wellbutrin can be stimulating and exacerbate anxiety. For me it did nothing for depression. It also made me anxious and irritable.I have a mild bipolar and depression is dominate. You most likely need to switch to a different AD. Psycheducation.org is an excellent resource for bipolar disorders.
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2010, at 10:52:50
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by polarbear206 on April 25, 2010, at 10:29:07
Same thing happened to me with wellbutrin. Polarbear thought wellbutrin was one the best ones for bipolar? Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on April 25, 2010, at 22:40:06
In reply to welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on April 25, 2010, at 5:23:51
Hi and welcome to the site...
Wellbutrin is typically given for depression, not bipolar, and as others have suggested it can be activating, so for someone with BP, it is not the typical treatment for that.
You say you have been on this combination (Wellbutrin, Seroquel)for a few years, so obviously it must have worked for you at some point(?) Do you remember having distinct episodes of mania before being treated?
I was always under the impression that with that diagnosis, the addition of a mood stabalizer is fairly common and I wondered if you had ever been on one, such as Depakote, Lamictal,?
Other than these two meds, what else has been tried?
What is your level of functioning each day...i.e. are you able to work, go to school, etc. with the sleep deprivation that you have.
Trazadone is an antidepressant, but is used more often for its sleep inducing properties.
There are many on this site that have the same diagnosis and will give you more good advice...getting educated the the most important thing when it comes to finding the best tretament for your condition.
Posted by mellow on April 26, 2010, at 0:16:21
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by stargazer2 on April 25, 2010, at 22:40:06
Hi, well to babble!
I also suffer from bipolar disorder and i know how not sleeping right can make us feel like crap! I will echo what the previous poster said. It surprises me that you have this diagnosis but are not taking a mood stabilizer. Did anyone ever mention drugs like depakote, lamictal, lithium, trileptal or topomax when they told you you were bipolar??? If not you should certainly ask what your doctor's treatment strategy is. Have you ever been hospitalized? What other drugs have you taken?
You certainly need to treat depressive episodes, but aggressive treatment with a antidepressant like wellbutrin could make your cycles worse. It could in fact be what is causing you to feel anxious or irratable. (That doesn't mean you should stop it cold turkey, you should probably talk to your doc about it...)
There are a ton of people on this site who can share their stories with you and give you info about experiences with drugs and treatment strategies. You are in the right place! You should also check out psycheducation.org as that website is an incredible resource for those suffering from bipolar disorder.
Keep us posted. I hope you find some answers!
mellow
Posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on April 26, 2010, at 5:21:31
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by mellow on April 26, 2010, at 0:16:21
Thank you all for the quick responses.
to answer a couple questions:
yes I was on lamactil 150mg for alot of the time that I have been taking welbutrin. I stopped taking lamactil and reduced my dose of welbutrin because I started feeling something similar to anhedonia. for a while I started feeling a little more alive, however that did seem to be making mania a little more likely. it was still manageable because the seroquel would make me sleep and eat.
I tried depacote as well with worse results and for a very short time.I have tried prozac when i was much younger and I have given lexapro 2 tries, once when I was 17, with awful results, really really awful. and once more before i tried the welbutrin and lamactil. the second round started going downhill so i stopped that much faster, fearing the same bad things would happen. both times I became very agitated and angry all the time and stopped caring about much of anything. I almost ended up dead the first time i tried the lexapro
I took ambien for sleeping, also when i was 17. It never really helped me sleep much but I found it amusing when I would smoke a cigarette and lose my equilibrium or go cross eyed. other than that ive only had the seroquel for sleep.
I have had many distinct manic episodes, which usually involve very little sleep and appetite and lots of anxiety, anger and tension. the most recent was only a week ago. I slept 4 hrs a night every other night for a couple weeks. usually the cycles are much slower, like 2 or 3 months, and much less severe. During these episodes my functioning always varies depending on what my day to day activities entail. I have alot of trouble being social when i'm very depressed or manic,. I isolate when depressed and alienate when manic. school was barely manageable because of the mania and being awake till 3 or 4 am every night. I have held my current job for a couple years only because it demands very little, and I would have been fired 100 times already if my boss wasn't so understanding about me missing work or doing ridiculous crazy things at work. other day to day stuff is usually hard for me as i tend to be very messy and disorganized and forgetful.
I've never really been in a mental hospital, but I've been sent to boarding schools and rehabs, so I'm familiar with some of those environments. some of it was helpful and some of it probably made things much worse.
Hope that helps. I would love some more drugs to look into, and any other suggestions are great
Thank you all so so much for your time and advice, you all seem like lovely loonies.
Posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2010, at 20:35:55
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on April 26, 2010, at 5:21:31
Have you had manic episodes after two years of use on wellbutrin? Did you tolerate it previously? If so maybe the med could be changed? But I've heard lamictal can cause anger in some. Phillipa
Posted by hrguru on May 1, 2010, at 4:41:12
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy » Techno'n'PillBottles, posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2010, at 20:35:55
Hello :)
I have Bipolar II, and before I was diagnosed, I tried Wellbutrin regular release (75mg) for depression, which made me have what I now know to be rapid cycles (on very rare occasions- and just while I was getting used to the medication). However, now I am taking Topamax, which I love love love! It has changed my life. I haven't been cycling (though it took awhile to get to the effective dosage). I now have little to no anxiety. But it does not quite do the trick for my depression. So I heard somewhere that Wellbutrin is much safer to take for Bipolar disorder if paired with a mood stabilizer (and less likely to trigger mania). I don't know if this is a fact, but I do know that since I added 100mg of Wellbutrin SR to my drug cocktail each day- I feel pretty much like a normal, functioning person, for the first time in at least a YEAR. To put this into perspective, I was so depressed last month, I contemplated hospitalization, because I felt so helpless I could barely do anything. I have gotten my life back. Talk to your doctor. Every person is different, because the right mood stabilizer is key, but often it just has to be coupled with either an anti-depressant or atypical anti-psychotic. You won't have ANY weight gain with Topamax. I have lost a considerable amount of weight! And Here's a tip: if you do take Wellbutrin- take your dose very early in the morning, otherwise you will be up very late. After all, it is an "energizing drug." But, hey- look on the bright side. At least you won't feel like you're dragging throughout the day :) Also, since I've started WB, I have not once felt manic. Just...normal, and not depressed. There's also another drug called Trileptal, which is a mood stabilizer similar to Tegretol. I have heard that it is an excellent med, but I don't know from personal experience. Anyway, you just have to kind of find that "perfect formula," but when you do, you'll know it :) Others around you will tell you it's working! I wish you the best of luck!! We are all here for support if you need it!
Posted by bonsavant on May 2, 2010, at 16:17:21
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by mellow on April 26, 2010, at 0:16:21
Ive had chronic depression and insomnia on and off for almost my adult life. Last year I hit bottom and enrolled in a free clinical study.
Ive been on wellbutrin 150 and paxil 10 for aabout a year. Its a free study at columbia university. They were doing a study on dual use of these 2 drugs, double blind.
For sleep the doctors were giving me ambienI.I began to respond to this med quickly, after the first 2 weeks and began to feel myself again and have been depression free with some occasional mood swings but chronic insomnia. I started a jogging regiment doing about 12 miles a week and have lost 25 pounds.
The doctor then prescribed Lithium 300 for the mood swings and it seemed to work well. But she eventually wanted me off the ambien and prescribed seroquel, 200mg off label as a replacement.
The seroquel doesnt seem to do much except make me lethargic and over slep. When the other meds kicked in I began rising about 7am and having no trouble falling alseep by 11.
I hope this information can help you in your condition.
Posted by hrguru on May 3, 2010, at 5:24:55
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by bonsavant on May 2, 2010, at 16:17:21
Hello Bonsavant :)
It's great to hear you are sleeping much better and are depression-free! Though it sounds like getting there was quite difficult for you. Many of us here have had similar struggles with finding the right medication. But I am so glad you have found something that works! :) How rewarding and comforting that must feel for you. I've been there myself.
I have a question, if you don't mind. What has been your experience with lithium? It's supposed to be the gold standard for bipolar treatment, and I was just wondering if you're still taking it, and if so- what the side effects were/are like? Only if you mind sharing, of course ;)
By the way, I've never been a fan of ambien, and I hear that it can be addictive? Not sure about that, but I do take Lunesta on occasion for insomnia (as it is not supposed to be habit-forming or addictive). Some people don't find it to be effective, but it may be because you have to take it on a completely empty stomach or it won't work. I think it works great! Plus, you wake up feeling totally refreshed, and not at all drowsy in the morning. Has your doctor ever mentioned it?
Posted by hrguru on May 3, 2010, at 5:51:37
In reply to Re: welbutrin not so well and seroquel not so sleepy, posted by mellow on April 26, 2010, at 0:16:21
Hi Mellow,
Thanks for sharing that website! I checked it out yesterday, and it has so much useful information. What a great resource!
Two websites that I have found are: www.livingmanicdepressive.com- this was created by a guy who is dx'd BP II. It was the first website I found that helped me start to feel comfortable with my diagnosis. He has a way of laying it all out there, that just helps you relate- and not feel alone, and I haven't seen another site like it. I would encourage anyone who is dx'd BP or who has a loved one with BP to read his diary in particular. It's incredible.
The other website is www.facingus.org. It has several tools for depression, anxiety, and BP- including a mood tracker, journal, and a wellness book. A truly unique website- one of a kind.
Thanks again for letting us know about psycheducation.org :)
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