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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 11, 2010, at 13:49:42
Hi,
I've heard, and it might very well have been here (excuse my memory lapse) that effexor was derived from tramadol.
Can anyone point me towards sources for this?
Has anyone here tried long acting tramadol as double-duty ad and pain-reliever?
(Was on effexor years back--was more effective IMO than
pristiq. That was before MD and pain nos.)Any leads appreciated!
Posted by Phillipa on April 11, 2010, at 14:00:03
In reply to info on relationship of effexor to tramadol?, posted by floatingbridge on April 11, 2010, at 13:49:42
I don't know about the effexor relation to tramadol but recently asked the pdoc for some and she refused. I'd be interested in knowing the relationship also. As so much back pain. And seem to respond to opiods. But tramadol isn't even one is it? Miss you. Phillipa ps so effexor is better than pristiq? Seems these time release things don't work as well.
Posted by bulldog2 on April 11, 2010, at 18:26:28
In reply to info on relationship of effexor to tramadol?, posted by floatingbridge on April 11, 2010, at 13:49:42
> Hi,
>
> I've heard, and it might very well have been here (excuse my memory lapse) that effexor was derived from tramadol.
>
> Can anyone point me towards sources for this?
>
> Has anyone here tried long acting tramadol as double-duty ad and pain-reliever?
>
>
> (Was on effexor years back--was more effective IMO than
> pristiq. That was before MD and pain nos.)
>
> Any leads appreciated!Hi Floating.
How is it going? I don't think that effexor is derived from tramadol but possibly similar in chemical structure. It's supposed to be a good and fast acting ad. There may be something about it that is more than just blocking serotonin and norepinephrine. But it is a good ad if you chose it and fast acting is a plus.
Haven't heard from snow flake. Have you? last time we wrote she was not doing well.Regards
Jerry
Posted by floatingbridge on April 11, 2010, at 21:41:02
In reply to info on relationship of effexor to tramadol?, posted by floatingbridge on April 11, 2010, at 13:49:42
Thanks for your replies. I know I got this idea somewhere....
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2010, at 17:27:05
In reply to info on relationship of effexor to tramadol?, posted by floatingbridge on April 11, 2010, at 13:49:42
Chemistry
Characteristics:
Structurally, tramadol closely resembles a stripped down version of codeine. Both codeine and tramadol share the 3-methyl ether group, and both compounds are metabolized along the same hepatic pathway and mechanism to the stronger opioid, phenol agonist analogs. For codeine, this is morphine, and for tramadol, it is the M1 metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol. The closest chemical relative of tramadol in clinical use is venlafaxine (Effexor), an SSNRI. The two molecules are nearly identical. Both tramadol and venlafaxine share SSNRI properties, while venlafaxine is devoid of any opioid effects.
Comparison with related substances:
Structurally, tapentadol is the closest chemical relative of tramadol in clinical use. Tapentadol is also an opioid, but unlike both tramdol and venlafaxine, tapentadol represents only one stereoisomer and is the weaker of the two, in terms of opioid effect. Both tramadol and venlafaxine are racemic mixtures. Structurally, tapentadol also differs from tramadol in being a phenol, and not an ether. Also, both tramadol and venlafaxine incorporate a cyclohexyl moiety, attached directly to the aromatic, while tapentadol lacks this feature. In reality, the closest structural chemical entity to tapentadol in clinical use is the over-the-counter drug phenylephrine. Both share a meta phenol, attached to a straight chain hydrocarbon. In both cases, the hydrocarbon terminates in an amine.
Also, Off-Label uses:
As an opiate withdrawal management /Anti-Depressant withdrawal aid (proven to be effective, especially with withdrawal from its distant relative Venlafaxine(Effexor).
Posted by bulldog2 on April 14, 2010, at 18:06:57
In reply to ultram: from wiki » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2010, at 17:27:05
> Chemistry
>
> Characteristics:
>
> Structurally, tramadol closely resembles a stripped down version of codeine. Both codeine and tramadol share the 3-methyl ether group, and both compounds are metabolized along the same hepatic pathway and mechanism to the stronger opioid, phenol agonist analogs. For codeine, this is morphine, and for tramadol, it is the M1 metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol. The closest chemical relative of tramadol in clinical use is venlafaxine (Effexor), an SSNRI. The two molecules are nearly identical. Both tramadol and venlafaxine share SSNRI properties, while venlafaxine is devoid of any opioid effects.
>
> Comparison with related substances:
>
> Structurally, tapentadol is the closest chemical relative of tramadol in clinical use. Tapentadol is also an opioid, but unlike both tramdol and venlafaxine, tapentadol represents only one stereoisomer and is the weaker of the two, in terms of opioid effect. Both tramadol and venlafaxine are racemic mixtures. Structurally, tapentadol also differs from tramadol in being a phenol, and not an ether. Also, both tramadol and venlafaxine incorporate a cyclohexyl moiety, attached directly to the aromatic, while tapentadol lacks this feature. In reality, the closest structural chemical entity to tapentadol in clinical use is the over-the-counter drug phenylephrine. Both share a meta phenol, attached to a straight chain hydrocarbon. In both cases, the hydrocarbon terminates in an amine.
>
> Also, Off-Label uses:
>
> As an opiate withdrawal management /Anti-Depressant withdrawal aid (proven to be effective, especially with withdrawal from its distant relative Venlafaxine(Effexor).Some p-docs have used this drug off label for depression. This drug does make sense for one that is suffering pain and depression. They also make an extended release version. It's not even scheduled as it can easily be bought online. The problem may be finding a p-doc that will prescribe for depression. Good luck.
Posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2010, at 20:20:38
In reply to Re: ultram: from wiki, posted by bulldog2 on April 14, 2010, at 18:06:57
Mine won't already asked. Idiot docs at least mine. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on April 17, 2010, at 8:33:25
In reply to Re: ultram: from wiki » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2010, at 20:20:38
> Mine won't already asked. Idiot docs at least mine. Phillipa
Yes but didn't you have issues?
Posted by epidemiologist on April 18, 2010, at 22:16:29
In reply to Re: ultram: from wiki, posted by bulldog2 on April 17, 2010, at 8:33:25
Two cautions on tramadol and venlafaxine. Because they both affect serotonin, there is a possibility of serotonin syndrome with co-adminstration. This occasionally can cause death. Also, many anesthesiologist friends speak of patients who have been addicted to tramadol. It has a role, but because it binds to mu receptors--opioid receptors as well as kappa receptors, it is actually a weak opioid. There are some moves to make it a controlled substance. Like all medications, it needs to be approached with respect.
Posted by Deneb on April 18, 2010, at 23:49:05
In reply to Re: ultram: from wiki » bulldog2, posted by epidemiologist on April 18, 2010, at 22:16:29
Hello epidemiologist!
Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Thanks for that information about tramadol and venlafaxine. I'm sure it will help someone out. Thanks for participating.
Deneb
This is the end of the thread.
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