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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by Maxime on May 31, 2005, at 9:35:14
In reply to Re: My thoughts/experiences on Nardil, posted by willyee on May 30, 2005, at 21:56:19
> > 4mg buprenorphine sublingual qid (goes wonderfully with the Nardil for both motivation, mood elevation and anxiety)Is this a known effect of the med? The mood elevation portion?
MAxime
Posted by jparsell82 on June 1, 2005, at 15:03:10
In reply to Re: My thoughts/experiences on Nardil, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 30, 2005, at 20:06:26
> OT: First off, I was on vacation, so if anyone was trying to contact me via babblemail or email, try again, and I will respond.
>
> I am on week two of Nardil at 90mg, and I love it. I never thought I'd find something that worked better than the Parnate I was on, but indeed it does. I do miss the dopaminergic "push" that Parnate provided, but Nardil's effect on my anxiety is magical. My social phobia and other anxiety issues are simply gone, and I love it. Needless to say, I'm not depressed; I can't wait to see what this is like after two more weeks.
>
> Regarding the anorgasmia: I have a fantastic solution: cabergoline. I take more (500mcg once daily) than the dose recommended for prolactin suppression (500mcg twice weekly), but that is what it took to get a response. I have no side effects from the cabergoline whatsoever, just increased drive and a return of orgasm! There is NO NEED for anyone to suffer this side effect, because cabergoline is available to treat it. It also jacks up the libido quite nicely. My med cocktail:
>
> 22.5mg (total 90mg) Nardil qid (taking it this way minimizes the "Nardil nod" that I hope goes away at some point)
> 4mg buprenorphine sublingual qid (goes wonderfully with the Nardil for both motivation, mood elevation and anxiety)
> 500mcg cabergoline qd
>
> I also take 20mg Cialis fairly regularly, as I buy it (and cabergoline) from a research chemical supplier so I can afford to do this. If anyone needs an affordable source for these, babblemail me and I can help you.
>
> What I'm wondering about Nardil:
>
> 1) Has anyone had any success minimizing/eliminating carb cravings and/or weight gain? I am working out 4-5 times per week (30-45 mins cardio + 30-45 mins weight training--IN PUBLIC AT A GYM(!)--neither of which I could do without my meds!) but still worry about gaining weight and/or keeping fat on despite working out. Will this suffice? I try to keep snacking to a minimum, and when I do, I usually make it a piece of fruit or whatnot.
>
> 2) Drowsiness. Sometimes about 1-2 hours after I take a dose, I feel like going to sleep, but only if I am sitting still. If I am walking around, I do not get nearly as drowsy. Does this ever go away, or will I have to take modafinil/pemoline/etc for it?
>
> 3) Edema. Slight swelling in my feet. Does this ever go away?
>
> Thanks for your help and support, guys. I never imagined such a normal[ly pleasurable] existence was possible! Rather, it seemed as if such a life was reserved for others, but not for me. I am so grateful for my second chance at life at only 25 years old!
>
> Again, if anyone needs an affordable way to obtain tadalafil or cabergoline, babblemail me. There is no reason why anyone should trade a sex life for relief with Nardil.
>
> --cm
>
>
>
Hey there, regarding the carb cravings and weight gain issues of Nardil.... I'm wondering about that new diet drug Acomplia(cannibinoid receptor antagonist). It doesn't come out until late 2005 or early 2006 but perhaps it could be usable with Nardil. It's been shown to reduce cravings and lose weight around the mid-section. Also, about Cabergoline, could you email me? Or give me your email? Thanks,Josh (xxx)
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 1, 2005, at 21:36:53
In reply to Re: My thoughts/experiences on Nardil » willyee, posted by Maxime on May 31, 2005, at 9:35:14
Yes. There are multiple studies backing up the use of buprenorphine in refractory depression with excellent results. Also, see the article "Buprenorphine: The Un-Adoptable Orphan". It summarizes a few of his cases in which buprenorphine was a miraculous success, and then gives his opinion on the politics and economics that prevent it from ever gaining the status of an excellent antidepressant as it should. It does not produce any "high" feeling after around 5 days . It remains an excellent mood elevator, though.
Also, it doesn't make me feel drugged at all, unlike typical full opioid agonists. It's kinda like getting the benefits of an opioid but without feeling high, if that makes any sense. The trials used 0.3mg qid (maybe as high as 0.6mg). I take 4mg qid, which definitely works better than lesser doses. I don't know if that would hold true for many people, but then again, I don't seem to respond to many medications typically at all. ;)Honestly, the stuff is an amazing antidepressant for many people, including me. I would probably do OK on just buprenorphine alone, but the other meds (Nardil, Dostinex) along with it make me feel very WELL most of the time.
Are you thinking of trying anything I've mentioned?
Best of luck.
--cm
Posted by Maxime on June 1, 2005, at 21:59:17
In reply to Re: My thoughts/experiences on Nardil » Maxime, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 1, 2005, at 21:36:53
I didn't realise it was opioid until now. Well actually I forgot, because Ed-UK suggested it to me a few weeks back. I know my pdoc will never prescribe it for me.
I am looking for something to add to my Parnate to brighten my mood.
Maxime
> Yes. There are multiple studies backing up the use of buprenorphine in refractory depression with excellent results. Also, see the article "Buprenorphine: The Un-Adoptable Orphan". It summarizes a few of his cases in which buprenorphine was a miraculous success, and then gives his opinion on the politics and economics that prevent it from ever gaining the status of an excellent antidepressant as it should. It does not produce any "high" feeling after around 5 days . It remains an excellent mood elevator, though.
> Also, it doesn't make me feel drugged at all, unlike typical full opioid agonists. It's kinda like getting the benefits of an opioid but without feeling high, if that makes any sense. The trials used 0.3mg qid (maybe as high as 0.6mg). I take 4mg qid, which definitely works better than lesser doses. I don't know if that would hold true for many people, but then again, I don't seem to respond to many medications typically at all. ;)
>
> Honestly, the stuff is an amazing antidepressant for many people, including me. I would probably do OK on just buprenorphine alone, but the other meds (Nardil, Dostinex) along with it make me feel very WELL most of the time.
>
> Are you thinking of trying anything I've mentioned?
>
> Best of luck.
>
> --cm
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 1, 2005, at 22:26:14
In reply to Re: My thoughts/experiences on Nardil » Chairman_MAO, posted by jparsell82 on June 1, 2005, at 15:03:10
> I need an affordable source for nardil
>
> willyee> I buy it ... from a research chemical supplier so I can afford to do this.
>
> Chairman_MAO> about Cabergoline, could you email me? Or give me your email?
>
> Josh (xxx)Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 2, 2005, at 9:22:17
In reply to Re: affordable sources » willyee » Chairman_MAO » jparsell82, posted by Dr. Bob on June 1, 2005, at 22:26:14
What if the source is US-based, and the transaction is legal? Furthermore, I didn't know that I was doing anything wrong because I never posted the site selling the drug here. I really don't understand the policy, as people obviously sometimes need such sources to afford their medication--or even obtain it, as not everyone has $250+ per session for a pdoc skilled in treatment-refractory illness. Is this really the way it should be? Should only the wealthy be entitled to truly effective medications? Moreover, given this policy, we will all cloak such requests in layer after layer of verbiage until they are no longer visible as such.
I suppose I will no longer post such messages; you don't have to worry.
These policies notwithstanding, anyone, please, anyone should feel free to babblemail me if you think I may be able to help you--not with medications anymore, of course.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 2, 2005, at 22:33:43
In reply to Re: affordable sources » Dr. Bob, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 2, 2005, at 9:22:17
> What if the source is US-based, and the transaction is legal?
Hmm, good question, could you let me know what the source is?
> given this policy, we will all cloak such requests in layer after layer of verbiage until they are no longer visible as such.
Well, if they're not visible to me, I guess nothing would happen...
Bob
Posted by Tepiaca on June 5, 2005, at 1:44:53
In reply to Re: My thoughts/experiences on Nardil, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 30, 2005, at 20:06:26
> Regarding the anorgasmia: I have a fantastic solution: cabergoline. I take more (500mcg once daily) than the dose recommended for prolactin suppression (500mcg twice weekly), but that is what it took to get a response. I have no side effects from the cabergoline whatsoever, just increased drive and a return of orgasm! There is NO NEED for anyone to suffer this side effect, because cabergoline is available to treat it. It also jacks up the libido quite nicely. >>
Hi chair , is tep here
I have some questions about Camergolineis this a safe drugs in the long term??,
it is rare how nobody had mentioned this drug before, or at least I never read about it.
is it safe???how much time to kick in??, is it expensive??
who told you to try this drug? a doctor??
thanks chairman
Posted by Tepiaca on June 5, 2005, at 3:54:23
In reply to Re: affordable sources » Dr. Bob, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 2, 2005, at 9:22:17
Do you believe is dangerous to take an
antipsychotic like Seroquel with CabergolineI undertantd Seroquel is an antagonist of the
D2 receptors , and that cabergolist is an agonist
is this safe?????
Posted by GreenP on April 6, 2010, at 4:26:25
In reply to Re: Ace and others on Nardil » ixus, posted by ace on May 30, 2005, at 1:09:26
Hi. I've been on Nardil for four weeks and three days (4 weeks on 45 mg and 1 week and three days on 60 mg) and I am so depressed and anxious. I'm afraid to go out of the house, I'm worse than I was before I was on SSRIs. Does anyone have any advice for me on what I should do?
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2010, at 6:39:50
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 6, 2010, at 4:26:25
> Hi. I've been on Nardil for four weeks and three days (4 weeks on 45 mg and 1 week and three days on 60 mg) and I am so depressed and anxious. I'm afraid to go out of the house, I'm worse than I was before I was on SSRIs. Does anyone have any advice for me on what I should do?
Some people don't respond to Nardil until they reach a dose of 90mg. You may yet respond at 60mg, which I consider the beginning of the effective dose range. Unfortunately, it might not be for another few weeks until you respond to it. You might want to give each dosage a trial of three weeks before increasing. This will give the drug a chance to work and your body a chance to accommodate to the higher dosage.
It is very likely that I will restart Nardil in the summer. I have been trialing a new drug, milnacipran. The two drugs should not be mixed because of a serious serotonergic reaction. If I do take Nardil again, it will be in combination with other drugs:
Nardil
nortriptyline
Lamictal
Abilify
lithium
- Scott
Posted by ace on April 6, 2010, at 8:20:33
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 6, 2010, at 4:26:25
> Hi. I've been on Nardil for four weeks and three days (4 weeks on 45 mg and 1 week and three days on 60 mg) and I am so depressed and anxious. I'm afraid to go out of the house, I'm worse than I was before I was on SSRIs. Does anyone have any advice for me on what I should do?
Hi - can you clear up the total amount of time you have been on Nardil?- I am not sure if you have been on it 5 weeks and 3 days or 4 weeks and 3 days?
Nardil usually takes longer than the SSRI's and TCA's to kick in. I would stay put at a dose of 60mg for a minimum of four weeks. And spend 8-12 weeks if necessary on the medication. And like Scott stated, you may need a a higher dose. But I would not up the dosage now, esp after only 3 days on 60mg.
I would recommend:
Stay on that 60mg for 4 weeks if you can tolerate it. You could be just around the corner from a nice surprise...keep faithful (that's easy for me to say I know!)
For your depression and anxiety, if things get too bad, i would urge adding on Xanax or another benzo low dose. This may also have the effect of getting the Nardil starting faster.
Let me know how you are,
Ace
Posted by GreenP on April 7, 2010, at 0:41:44
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :( » GreenP, posted by ace on April 6, 2010, at 8:20:33
Thanks so much to both of you for your speedy responses! Sorry about the mix up... what I meant is that I've been on Nardil a total of 5 weeks and 3 days. 4 weeks on 40 mg and 1 week and 3 days on 60... and also, what I meant to say was that I am feeling worse than I was when I was on SSRI's. (I went off of SSRI's hoping that an MAOI would help more with all the other messed up feelings I am still having.) I kind of wrote this post in a desperate scramble so sorry about all the typos.
It's so good to hear that there might be a surprise around the corner, I've been so lost ever since I went off the SSRIs. My family's really starting to worry about me and they want me off of this stuff. But the way I was living on SSRIs wasn't truly living either. The depression wasn't gone, more like muted, and I never got excited about anything. It's like I was watching the world go on from a distance. But I wasn't crying all the time, so it seems to outsiders that I'm doing worse. I have such high hopes for this medication. And I don't want to go off of it if there's any chance that it may work. I'm desperate enough for a chance at a real life to wait and stay on it. It's just tough sometimes, you know? I get tired of feeling crazy all the time. All of my anxiety is centered around things that I cognitively know aren't things to be afraid of. When I talk to people, I know that even if I am awkward, it doesn't matter. Who cares? If anything they will think, "oh that chic was awkward" and then they'll forget about it. But it's more than that, it's the feeling. There is this feeling that arises in me when I am around people. It happens no matter what, even when I know it's not warranted. It's the same with the depression, separation anxiety and sensitivity to rejection. All things that I can cognitively sort out, but the feeling remains. And it exhausts me. It makes me gray. It hurts so badly. It has stolen my life. So if there's any chance in the world that this could help me with that, then I will wait. I have to.
Posted by ace on April 7, 2010, at 3:10:34
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 7, 2010, at 0:41:44
> Thanks so much to both of you for your speedy responses! Sorry about the mix up... what I meant is that I've been on Nardil a total of 5 weeks and 3 days. 4 weeks on 40 mg and 1 week and 3 days on 60... and also, what I meant to say was that I am feeling worse than I was when I was on SSRI's.
Were you on a medication prior to starting Nardil?
At what dose?
Until it kicks in you may indeed feel worse, certainly you can not attribute this worse feeling to Nardil at present.
(I went off of SSRI's hoping that an MAOI would help more with all the other messed up feelings I am still having.)What feelings?
I kind of wrote this post in a desperate scramble so sorry about all the typos.
>
> It's so good to hear that there might be a surprise around the corner,Hang in there!
I've been so lost ever since I went off the SSRIs. My family's really starting to worry about me and they want me off of this stuff. But the way I was living on SSRIs wasn't truly living either. The depression wasn't gone, more like muted, and I never got excited about anything.
SSRI's, in many cases, 'numb' the depression, so we can't feel it as much. This is consistent with your statements above.
We don't want that! We want you to feel happy!
It's like I was watching the world go on from a distance. But I wasn't crying all the time, so it seems to outsiders that I'm doing worse. I have such high hopes for this medication. And I don't want to go off of it if there's any chance that it may work. I'm desperate enough for a chance at a real life to wait and stay on it.Good idea!
It's just tough sometimes, you know? I get tired of feeling crazy all the time. All of my anxiety is centered around things that I cognitively know aren't things to be afraid of. When I talk to people, I know that even if I am awkward, it doesn't matter. Who cares? If anything they will think, "oh that chic was awkward" and then they'll forget about it. But it's more than that, it's the feeling. There is this feeling that arises in me when I am around people. It happens no matter what, even when I know it's not warranted.
It's a feeling of anxiety, of being overly concerned what others think of you? Of being uncomfortable in the presence of others? Constantly thinking people are judging you and having an internal negative dialogue?
Do you feel this worse around the opposite sex?
It's the same with the depression,
separation anxietyWhen did the SA take hold? What specific syptoms?
and sensitivity to rejection.
Do you feel you are 'different' from others?
All things that I can cognitively sort out, but the feeling remains. And it exhausts me. It makes me gray. It hurts so badly. It has stolen my life. So if there's any chance in the world that this could help me with that, then I will wait. I have to.
Please answer the above if possible, but I indeed think you are on the right track. I feel that your dose must be sorted out ASAP.
Peace,
Ace
Posted by Economist on April 7, 2010, at 15:56:37
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 6, 2010, at 4:26:25
GreenP,
Can you please post an update as soon as you notice a difference in your mood, if it ever happens? I have been on EMSAM now for 4 weeks and nothing is different. But some people tell me MAOIs can suddenly kick in one moment after 6 weeks. I need something to motivate me to continue this MAOI up to the six week mark.
Please update and let me know, or send me a babblemail.
Thanks,
Economist
Posted by mike0388 on April 7, 2010, at 16:01:01
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :( » GreenP, posted by Economist on April 7, 2010, at 15:56:37
I've just started Nardil at a 30mg/day dosage, that increases to 45mg/day in 2 weeks. Have seen small changes, small but were changes. Kind of interesting.
Posted by GreenP on April 8, 2010, at 2:43:11
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :( » GreenP, posted by ace on April 7, 2010, at 3:10:34
Responses to Ace's questions:
Before Nardil I was on Effexor 150mg and Zoloft 200mg at the same time. I was also on 100 mg Lamictal (which I am still on) and 10 mg Zyprexa (which I am also still on). The doctor also tried me on an ADD medication recently when I told him I wasn't getting excited about anything. He said that the ADD medication would raise my dopamine. It didn't make me feel any better but I think it's important to note that I was on 5 medications at once. Clearly something wasn't working correctly.
The other messed up feelings are as follows. When I wake up in the morning I am deeply depressed. When I get in the shower I am obsessing about everything, the shampoo, the temperature of the water, who I'm going to talk to, how I look. Negative chatter that doesn't stop. Again, I know these thoughts are unwarranted and crazy. But there's an indescribable feeling, almost like a pull that drives the thoughts. It hurts. I also get the feeling that I'm being physically violated a lot, not so much in the shower, but mostly when I put on clothes. Just general feelings of being overwhelmed, constantly.
SA was always there, since I was a little kid, but it didn't infiltrate every aspect of my life. I always had groups of people I was comfortable around, and then there were groups of people I wasn't. It's recently gotten to the point where there aren't people I feel comfortable around at all. I fluctuate in and out of feeling comfortable around my family.
Posted by SLS on April 8, 2010, at 5:09:07
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 8, 2010, at 2:43:11
> When I wake up in the morning I am deeply depressed.
> When I get in the shower I am obsessing about everything, the shampoo, the temperature of the water, who I'm going to talk to, how I look.
> Negative chatter that doesn't stop. Again, I know these thoughts are unwarranted and crazy. But there's an indescribable feeling, almost like a pull that drives the thoughts. It hurts.
Although not an exact match, your depression seems to have some characteristics of melancholic (endogenous) depression. It might respond to tricyclic antidepressants. If you doctor is up to it, you can even add nortriptyline to Nardil.
- Scott
Posted by GreenP on April 8, 2010, at 15:59:23
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :( » GreenP, posted by Economist on April 7, 2010, at 15:56:37
I will definitely post on any changes. There's still time for this story to have a happy ending!
P
Posted by GreenP on April 9, 2010, at 15:19:12
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 6, 2010, at 4:26:25
I am so happy to report that the depression is lifting! The last couple of days I even went for a walk downtown. Yesterday I even bought something at a store. I know this isn't monumental in the life of a normy, but for me it means a lot :)
The anxiety is still there, I still wake up and feel incredibly overwhelmed, making it hard to get out of bed. I'm still having trouble when I have to pay for something, or have to pass someone walking down the street. And I still experience heavy pulses of distress over little things and sometimes nothing at all throughout the day, but I haven't cried in two days, and I'm actually going outside. Looks like things are actually turning around!
My question is, can the Nardil continue to work more and more on the same does as time goes on? Or to receive a better effect, is it necessary for me to increase my dose?60 mg Nardil
4 weeks on 40mg plus 1 week and 5 days on 60mg for a total of 5 weeks and 5 days on Nardil (wow, people were right about the 6 week mark)P
Posted by Economist on April 9, 2010, at 15:59:09
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 9, 2010, at 15:19:12
Wow, that's great GreenP. Did you suddenly notice the mood life today, or was it gradual and subtle?
Posted by mike0388 on April 9, 2010, at 19:59:33
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 9, 2010, at 15:19:12
Keep working on it! I've only been on a Nardil for a week, and I can feel a difference, I can just imagine how I'll feel 6 months into it. I cannot wait, honestly. But patience is a virtue, i'm on 45mg/day. Wish you the best, you'll be fine, remember patience patience patience!
Posted by Economist on April 12, 2010, at 1:26:11
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :(, posted by GreenP on April 9, 2010, at 15:19:12
Hey GreenP,
I read your april 10, 2010 blog update. It sounded like you were a bit hopeless about your situation -- does this mean the Nardil pooped out on you? Please update us about your current feelings on Nardil.
Posted by mike0388 on April 12, 2010, at 14:29:42
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :( » GreenP, posted by Economist on April 12, 2010, at 1:26:11
I think you have me mistaken with someone else.
I've only been on Nardil 2 weeks and feel alot better.
Posted by GreenP on April 13, 2010, at 1:59:35
In reply to Re: Help! Not Responding to Nardil :( » GreenP, posted by Economist on April 12, 2010, at 1:26:11
Economist,
You need not worry. The Nardil is still working, but I'm still having ups and downs. The good thing is that I am actually having some ups, and I do feel up most of the time. People around me notice it too, so it's not all in my head. I think I tend to blog when I'm feeling bad, it's kind of a release. It may be time for me to up my dose. I would do it now, but I have finals and college applications to take care of and I can't afford to have any initially sedating side effects as of right now. But over all I am much happier and calmer, just still down at times.
p.s. thanks for checkin out my Nardil blog! Here it is if anyone is interested: http://yaprettymuch.blogspot.com/
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