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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 19, 2010, at 18:42:37
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one?, posted by polarbear206 on March 19, 2010, at 18:24:41
Thanks Polarbear-
I forgot to add that I stopped the Halcion at night (a few days ago) - may take 10 mg of adderall (a decrease in dose) tomorrow as I have to work tomorrow - will keep you posted!FM
Posted by SLS on March 19, 2010, at 18:45:21
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one? » SLS, posted by Frustratedmama on March 19, 2010, at 18:40:45
> i also stopped the halcion at night and have switched to taking a librium at night instead....
Halcion is probably the strongest sleeping pill, but it has an extremely short half life. Who knows how the rapid disappearance of this drug from your system every day has affected you?
- Scott
Posted by polarbear206 on March 19, 2010, at 18:53:13
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one?, posted by SLS on March 19, 2010, at 18:28:13
> Benzodiazepine withdrawal and SRI withdrawal/rebound depression can look similar.
>
> I think experimenting with the benzodiazepine makes sense. It will give you a quick answer, and you would only have to do it once. If taking a dose after the onset of your afternoon syndrome causes the syndrome to disappear, then you have your answer. If it doesn't, then that leaves open the possibility that you had not been taking enough Pristiq. I think a loss of effect of Adderall would produce great fatigue.
>
> It is too early for me to remark on the Savella except to say that it is not making me feel worse. This is a good thing. The last two drugs worsened my depression.
>
>
> - ScottI curious to find out how you make out with the Savella, and how it compares to Effexor. You did take Effexor before as I recall?
Posted by polarbear206 on March 19, 2010, at 18:59:37
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one? » polarbear206, posted by Frustratedmama on March 19, 2010, at 18:42:37
> Thanks Polarbear-
> I forgot to add that I stopped the Halcion at night (a few days ago) - may take 10 mg of adderall (a decrease in dose) tomorrow as I have to work tomorrow - will keep you posted!
>
> FMYea, just go slow and not too much at a time. Good idea with the Halcion. I was going to mention that to you the other day about it's short half-life. Your better off using the Librium. Are you a nurse since your working on a Saturday? Just curious. I'm an RN, but don't work weekends anymore. TGIF!!!
Posted by SLS on March 19, 2010, at 19:02:33
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon)))SLS, posted by polarbear206 on March 19, 2010, at 18:53:13
> I curious to find out how you make out with the Savella, and how it compares to Effexor. You did take Effexor before as I recall?
Yes. I have taken Effexor several times. I will let you know how things go with Savella. So far, it might be giving me a little more energy. If so, the effect is subtle at best.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2010, at 19:25:20
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one?, posted by SLS on March 19, 2010, at 18:28:13
Scott when did you switch to savella must have missed that one. Phillipa
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 19, 2010, at 19:51:22
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2010, at 19:25:20
Not an RN just own my own business so doing paperwork....similar field though :)
I think the Halcion did mess with my mood a bit- but also know the Pristiq started to decrease in effectiveness before the Halcion was added so making the switch to Savella was needed. I am sooo hoping the combination of Savella and Librium will work for me- seems to be the right meds according to what their functions should be....we'll see.!
Posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:09:19
In reply to Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one?, posted by Frustratedmama on March 19, 2010, at 17:26:00
FM, The sensitivity to stimuli you describe is remarkably like my own--even around the same time of day.
Sounds like you've made some good med changes--still wishing you the best. Hope you keep us posted!
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:11:37
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one?, posted by SLS on March 19, 2010, at 18:28:13
>
> It is too early for me to remark on the
Savella except to say that it is not making me feel worse. This is a good thing. The last two drugs worsened my depression.
>
>
> - Scott:-) here's hoping!
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 20, 2010, at 10:15:08
In reply to Re: Meds wearing off mid-afternoon- Why? Which one, posted by floatingbridge on March 19, 2010, at 23:09:19
So I took the liberty to make a change on my own...not significant change really, but I am taking the Savella both AM and PM....split into 25 mg doses (versus 1 50 mg dose in the PM) as I am thinking it could be the Savella wearing off too....I also think maybe splitting the Pristiq into two 25 mg doses might be worth a try....or should I just stop the Pristiq?
Posted by floatingbridge on March 20, 2010, at 11:10:31
In reply to Question for SLS, FB, BB, and others..... » floatingbridge, posted by Frustratedmama on March 20, 2010, at 10:15:08
> So I took the liberty to make a change on my own...not significant change really, but I am taking the Savella both AM and PM....split into 25 mg doses (versus 1 50 mg dose in the PM) as I am thinking it could be the Savella wearing off too....I also think maybe splitting the Pristiq into two 25 mg doses might be worth a try....or should I just stop the Pristiq?
FM,
I can't advise--Though I caution against stopping the pristiq. Your doc seems like
a good partner in this--for example working aggressively to transition pristiq to savella. And being off halcion sounds very good.Pristiq sedates me--always take my 50 at night. However, splitting the dose doesn't seem like a bad thing to try....
fb
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 20, 2010, at 14:59:57
In reply to Re: Question for SLS, FB, BB, and others..... » Frustratedmama, posted by floatingbridge on March 20, 2010, at 11:10:31
Ok so definitely not having a good day today- more sensitive and irritable- overall grumpy and not wanting to be around anyone...why is this? what is going on?
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 20, 2010, at 17:36:25
In reply to Having a really bad day, posted by Frustratedmama on March 20, 2010, at 14:59:57
> Ok so definitely not having a good day today- more sensitive and irritable- overall grumpy and not wanting to be around anyone...why is this? what is going on?
Friends,
It is written here,[...why is this? (W)hat is going on?...]
There is a large body of infomation that answers the question here. You see, the psychotropic drugs are chemicals, some used for thousands of years. The ancient chemicals came from plants like the poppy amd hemp and flowers that were used to alter the mind and assaninate people by poisoning them.
Then there were the nerve agents that were developed in the Great Wars. These nerve agents were used as rat poison and roach poison and then used by the Nazis. After the war, Nazi chemists were allowed (redacted by respondent). The actions of the nerve agents as to how they kill are by interfering with neurotransmitters.
Then there was fluoride, also a poison. The effects of fluoride are well-documented. Fluoride is also used in pesticides. Fluorophenyl is a compound that interferes with the thyroid.
But you may want to know what this is in relation to the question at hand.
I intend to show you, line upon line, precept upon precept, the action of psychotropic drugs on the human system that drugs like prozac, which contain fluorine, do to the human body. I intend to show you how chemists combine poisons like fluoride and chloride and other chemicals that make up insecticides and nerve agents and allow you to perhaps have a new perspective on what is happening to you if you are taking these type of chemicals that Mr. Hsiung has here this forum where these chemicals are called {medicines}.
Here is a link that explains the chemical make-up of prozac and some other mind-altering drugs for your education and support if you like.
Lou
http://www.poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/prozac.html
Posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 3:19:04
In reply to Having a really bad day, posted by Frustratedmama on March 20, 2010, at 14:59:57
> Ok so definitely not having a good day today- more sensitive and irritable- overall grumpy and not wanting to be around anyone...why is this? what is going on?
My first thought is to target your major med transition. What number day are you into pristiq decrease, savella and librium addition, halcion subtraction? My pdoc loves to change only one factor at a time
Of course, that is the ideal, and your situation is more urgent. Just don't underestimate the effect this has on the emotions. And for myself, there is always the issue of patience (or lack of it).Here's hoping tomorrow's better.
And you've had your thyroid thoroughly checked? TSH, antibodies, and more? Informed pdocs will usually recommended about 1.5 TSH. But maybe you've been though this already.... (Just be careful about t3.)
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 21, 2010, at 10:12:30
In reply to Re: Having a really bad day, posted by floatingbridge on March 21, 2010, at 3:19:04
> > Ok so definitely not having a good day today- more sensitive and irritable- overall grumpy and not wanting to be around anyone...why is this? what is going on?
>
> My first thought is to target your major med transition. What number day are you into pristiq decrease, savella and librium addition, halcion subtraction? My pdoc loves to change only one factor at a time
> Of course, that is the ideal, and your situation is more urgent. Just don't underestimate the effect this has on the emotions. And for myself, there is always the issue of patience (or lack of it).
>
> Here's hoping tomorrow's better.
>
> And you've had your thyroid thoroughly checked? TSH, antibodies, and more? Informed pdocs will usually recommended about 1.5 TSH. But maybe you've been though this already.... (Just be careful about t3.)Friends,
It is written here,[....your major med transition...]
This is a good thought here. I would like for you to click on the link here to see what the generally accepted way that the brain is constructed and how it works is depicted. I , however, have been revealed something different.
But acting on the generally accepted theory of the large body of psychiatry, in relation to what they call the chemical imbalnce theory, the video here could be helpfull in that regards. For what could the presence of a chemical like a fluoride like in prozac have to you after you see this video? Could not putting a chemical into the brian cause a chemical imbalance? Do you think that the brian in depressed people is deficiant in prozac? Or any other chemical?
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF04XPBj5uc
Posted by Phillipa on March 21, 2010, at 19:55:15
In reply to Lou's response--kemimbal?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 21, 2010, at 10:12:30
Lou seriously I don't get the point of the video. I learned this when working in psych. The reason behind how the SSRI"s work at the time. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 22, 2010, at 7:28:23
In reply to Re: Lou's response--kemimbal? » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on March 21, 2010, at 19:55:15
> Lou seriously I don't get the point of the video. I learned this when working in psych. The reason behind how the SSRI"s work at the time. Phillipa
Phillipa,
You wrote,[...the point...].
The point here is that the other member that I was respondiing to brought up a good point.
You see, the neurons in the brian in great numbers brings out thinking. Now would not then a chemical put in the brain cause the neurons to disconnect from one another in some type of shock and deminish thinking? In other words, could not the chemical such as prozac create a chemical imbalance?
You see, it is the {change} by withdrawing the chemical from the brain that I was trying to bring out. Could not a change cause the neurons to be confused with one another? And could not that confusion cause one to think of killing themselves?
There is a great body of evidence concerning this. And here is a member that killed themselves and the friend of the member wrote in here that there was a change in the chemicals. Yet today, members here (redacted by respondent).
Here is a link to that suicide's explanation by the friend.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080528/msgs/832223.html
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 10:28:09
In reply to Lou's reply-stopanshok » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on March 22, 2010, at 7:28:23
Just put a call into the doctor. Not doing well, so agitated! The librium was always on board so that wasn't a change- but the pristiq to savella was....and now it seems worse than before. hmmmm.....this stinks!
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2010, at 12:34:05
In reply to Getting worse :(, posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 10:28:09
> Just put a call into the doctor. Not doing well, so agitated! The librium was always on board so that wasn't a change- but the pristiq to savella was....and now it seems worse than before. hmmmm.....this stinks!
It seems as though some people need in excess of 100mg of Savella to treat depression.
Savella has a short half-life - 7 hours. Are you taking it twice a day?
"According to a pooled-data analysis, the remission rates in patients treated with venlafaxine (an SNRI) and SSRIs were 45% and 35%, respectively.[14] However, the placebo remission rate was 25%. The remission rate in the current study was 31.7% with a dosage of milnacipran 100 mg/day; furthermore, many patients with an inadequate response to this dosage responded when the dosage was increased to 150 mg/day, such that the cumulative remission rate was 63.4%. Furthermore, a marked improvement was noted in HDRS items 1 ('Depressed Mood') and 7 ('Work and Interests') in patients achieving remission with both milnacipran 100 mg/day and milnacipran 150 mg/day. The importance of these residual symptoms in determining the long-term outcome of depression has been emphasised.[15] Our results suggest that milnacipran can be administered at a dosage of 150 mg/day for the treatment of major depression when a dosage of 100 mg/day cannot achieve a satisfactory effect, and indicate that 150 mg/day of milnacipran may be a useful therapeutic option in the treatment of major depression."
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/528303_4
- Scott
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 12:39:54
In reply to Re: Getting worse :( » Frustratedmama, posted by SLS on March 22, 2010, at 12:34:05
Thanks SLS-
but the irritability and sense of rage was so overwhelming I cant bear to increase it (before the savella I was just dealing with the sad, apathetic, not showering, and lazy sort of depression) WIth the savella, I have all the horrible thoughts with the energy and agitation to do something about it- not a good combination....trying cymbalta.....posted below....any thoughts? I know you have been through the list of meds like me so am curious to get your opinion. How is the savella treating you? Good I hope!
FM
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2010, at 13:02:45
In reply to Re: Getting worse :( » SLS, posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 12:39:54
> Thanks SLS-
> but the irritability and sense of rage was so overwhelming I cant bear to increase it (before the savella I was just dealing with the sad, apathetic, not showering, and lazy sort of depression) WIth the savella, I have all the horrible thoughts with the energy and agitation to do something about it- not a good combination....trying cymbalta.....posted below....any thoughts? I know you have been through the list of meds like me so am curious to get your opinion. How is the savella treating you? Good I hope!
> FM
Oh. I thought you were experiencing withdrawal symptoms from Pristiq discontinuation. As you now describe your experience, I am not so sure. I am not familiar enough with the propensity of Savella to produce side effects in order to comment further. I have had absolutely no side effects with Savella, but I am only taking 50mg. I will increase the dosage tomorrow.I hope Cymbalta treats you more gently.
- Scott
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 13:11:21
In reply to Re: Getting worse :( » Frustratedmama, posted by SLS on March 22, 2010, at 13:02:45
Thanks Scott,
I am not sure if it is the Pristiq withdrawal or the Savella.....good question (my pdoc said he wasnt sure either). Probably a combination? Argh- this is so frustrating- I am out of work as I am a wreck- physically and emotionally- and I HAVE to go back to work tomorrow or I will really have to deal with the fall-out of missing work later.....
FM
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 23, 2010, at 0:53:56
In reply to Lou's response-efctsovfluorid, posted by Lou Pilder on March 20, 2010, at 17:36:25
> These nerve agents were used as rat poison and roach poison and then used by the Nazis.
Lou,
This is a reminder not to post anything about Nazis. I've redirected the above post and follow-ups to it to Psycho-Babble Politics. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by floatingbridge on March 23, 2010, at 1:32:56
In reply to Re: Getting worse :( » SLS, posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 12:39:54
FM,
I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. You & your doc have ruled out a mixed episode? Good luck with cymbalta. My own doc mentioned transitioning me from pristiq to cymbalta for pain.
(reacted poorly to strattera add-on. Not as agitated as you describe, but enough. Gives me pause regarding Savella.)
Best to you,
fb
Posted by Netch on March 23, 2010, at 9:35:31
In reply to Getting worse :(, posted by Frustratedmama on March 22, 2010, at 10:28:09
> Just put a call into the doctor. Not doing well, so agitated! The librium was always on board so that wasn't a change- but the pristiq to savella was....and now it seems worse than before. hmmmm.....this stinks!
SNRI can cause apathy, aggression and agitation. Sounds like you're in a mixed state.
You could also be bipolar/ADHD, which would require other meds.
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