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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 10:29:57
Hi everyone,
I thought I'd come back and share my experience- positive and negative, in case it may be helpful to others. Please forgive me if this is a bit long- I have tried to keep it brief as possible.My current state is that I am still quite depressed and suicidal and although much better, I still struggle with fatigue.
I am now on:
Prozac 20mg
Lamictal 200mg
Wellbutrin 450mg
Ritalin 40mg
Provigil 450mg
Klonopin 1mgYou might remember that I was here alot from October to December 2009. I had severe depression and exhaustion. I was also very suicidal. I failed a short (but traumatic) trial of Parnate which seemed to be my last hope and I was getting rather desperate.
After reading the experiences of other members of PB, I asked my psychiatrist if there could be some other cause for my symptoms (like an infection), especially the tiredness. He said it was highly possible.
However after seeing many doctors and having several tests, nothing earth shattering showed up- just low levels of Vitamin D. But I am sure something underlying is still lurking even though it hasn't been identified yet. Maybe when a new, less 'vague' symptom surfaces I will get a lead. Meanwhile I am just covering up the exhaustion with stimulating drugs.Experiences with meds:
Stimulants
I am on Ritalin 40mg, Provigil 400mg and Wellbutrin 450mg just to stay awake. This combination helps but I still struggle with the fatigue. I also take 100mg caffeine pills as needed.
Ritalin has been by far the most useful for tiredness. Provigil does not compare even at 400mg. Adding the Ritalin (40mg) is what actually got me out of bed. Ritalin also made me more motivated in a way that Provigil doesnt. I have been on the Ritalin for 3 months and as it stands I have noticed no tolerance build up.
I am not sure how effective the Wellbutrin is. It seems to help the fatigue but has no effect on my mood (which is still very low)Prozac:
I am very disappointed with Prozac. I chose it over venlafaxine because I believed that its binding at 5-HT 2C would be activating. However it wasnt. Prozac (20mg) is hardly helping my depression and making no impact on the tiredness whatsoever. Infact I take it at night. Currently I am only taking if for OCD.Venlafaxine
I tried 75mg of Venlafaxine for a few days and I found it very helpful for mood symptoms. However it made me sleepy so I gave it up.T3
T3 was a nightmare. I took 25mcg for 2 months. I had the most awful side effects like violent shaking and bad overheating. I cannot tell if it helped with the fatigue but it had no effect on mood. I gave it up a few weeks ago but still have not fully recovered from the side effects.
What I still cannot understand is how an anti psychotic (like Geodon in my case) can be more stimulating than all these stimulants put together. It's perplexing!A question:
Has anyone taken more than 40mg Ritalin? I think 40mg is still too low for me.I hope people are doing somewhat better.
Take care
love
D
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2010, at 12:36:15
In reply to What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 10:29:57
Delna I've really missed you. Same old here with me but you sound like you made some positive strides. I just wanted to comment on the T3 is it possible it created hyperthyroisim? If so it would pobably take about six weeks for your thyroid to normalize. But not possitive. Great to see you. Phillipa
Posted by evenintherain on March 12, 2010, at 13:08:49
In reply to What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 10:29:57
thanks for the info, i also have depression with fatigue and seem unable to tolerate parnate. (which i guess is ok since it hasn't helped the depression). have been very curious about ritalin.
hope you continue to improve w/this combo.
Posted by bleauberry on March 12, 2010, at 19:42:51
In reply to What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 10:29:57
Couple questions.
Is the prozac brand or generic?
Is the lamictal brand or generic?
Not only can the generic versions of those not work, they can actually make you feel bad.
The Marshall Protocol is fairly new and controversial. But in deep detailed scientific explanations it describes how infections change vitamin D status. The primary diagnostic tool is in fact a vitamin D blood test. Low vitamin D is a yellow flag. It only takes a short time in the sun and a little bit of milk to get all your vitamin D. So if it's low, it's low for a reason.
In the Marshall Protocol, taking vitamin D supplements to get levels up can help you feel better in the short run, but actually fuels the infection to be worse after the short run. Part of the healing protocol is to avoid vitamin D completely. Like I said, it is only a few years old and has its supporters and critics, but sheds light on some very intriguing topics that challenge some of our commonly held, but unproven, beliefs in medicine.The problem with all your infection testing is that most or all of them are flawed. Someone deathly ill with Lyme can test negative. It is a very long story to explain why that is, but once you know why, it all makes sense. Tests are guidelines only, they should not be used for diagnostic purposes. Diagnosis is based on history and symptoms and is clinical not laboratory.
Many infections don't even have tests. Thus round-about methods are used. Such as vitamin d in the marshall protocol. Or much simpler, challenge tests. Think maybe a bacteria is involved? Lyme? Clamydia? Any number of others? Take a few potent antibacterial herbs and see what happens. Or antibiotics. Herbs are almost as potent but much safer. The "Herxheimer" reaction is a powerful diagnostic tool. Maybe a yeast problem instead? Gosh, the lifestyle of USA provides an absolute palace for yeast to thrive. Same as with antibiotics, tests are not conclusive, but challenge tests are.
I wish you were feeling better. If you want to switch out the prozac for something else, consider Savella. And don't take the generic issue lightly. It can make a huge difference.
Posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 20:04:16
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by bleauberry on March 12, 2010, at 19:42:51
> Couple questions.
>
> Is the prozac brand or generic?
>
> Is the lamictal brand or generic?
>
> Not only can the generic versions of those not work, they can actually make you feel bad.
>
> The Marshall Protocol is fairly new and controversial. But in deep detailed scientific explanations it describes how infections change vitamin D status. The primary diagnostic tool is in fact a vitamin D blood test. Low vitamin D is a yellow flag. It only takes a short time in the sun and a little bit of milk to get all your vitamin D. So if it's low, it's low for a reason.
> In the Marshall Protocol, taking vitamin D supplements to get levels up can help you feel better in the short run, but actually fuels the infection to be worse after the short run. Part of the healing protocol is to avoid vitamin D completely. Like I said, it is only a few years old and has its supporters and critics, but sheds light on some very intriguing topics that challenge some of our commonly held, but unproven, beliefs in medicine.
>
> The problem with all your infection testing is that most or all of them are flawed. Someone deathly ill with Lyme can test negative. It is a very long story to explain why that is, but once you know why, it all makes sense. Tests are guidelines only, they should not be used for diagnostic purposes. Diagnosis is based on history and symptoms and is clinical not laboratory.
>
> Many infections don't even have tests. Thus round-about methods are used. Such as vitamin d in the marshall protocol. Or much simpler, challenge tests. Think maybe a bacteria is involved? Lyme? Clamydia? Any number of others? Take a few potent antibacterial herbs and see what happens. Or antibiotics. Herbs are almost as potent but much safer. The "Herxheimer" reaction is a powerful diagnostic tool. Maybe a yeast problem instead? Gosh, the lifestyle of USA provides an absolute palace for yeast to thrive. Same as with antibiotics, tests are not conclusive, but challenge tests are.
>
> I wish you were feeling better. If you want to switch out the prozac for something else, consider Savella. And don't take the generic issue lightly. It can make a huge difference.Hi
Thanks for the input.
I really want to try the challenge test- but with herbs and not antibiotic drugs since i react very badly to antibiotic medication.
I know you have posted at length about the test and i don't want to waste your time so could you please link me to such a post or to a website please.
Thanks so much
D
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 20:29:30
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update. » bleauberry, posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 20:04:16
forgive me for asking the obvious, but have you had your B12 levels checked? i found there's a huge discrepancy between what doctors consider normal, and what can in fact produce hugely disruptive somatic symptoms.
mine was lowish (280), and i subsequently found that megadoses of methylb12 made a profound difference in energy levels etc. N-acetyl-cysteine also seems to help.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 20:31:12
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 20:29:30
i'd also been thinking about you after i read a study which showed memantine was able to prevent neuroleptic-induced TD. i was wondering if you might be able to revisit geodon with memantine on board ...
Posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 22:23:23
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 20:29:30
> forgive me for asking the obvious, but have you had your B12 levels checked? i found there's a huge discrepancy between what doctors consider normal, and what can in fact produce hugely disruptive somatic symptoms.
>
> mine was lowish (280), and i subsequently found that megadoses of methylb12 made a profound difference in energy levels etc. N-acetyl-cysteine also seems to help.I had B12 tested. It came out to be in the 'normal' range as opposed to 'deficient' or 'intermediate'. It was 313 pg/ml and the normal range is 180-914 pg/ml at my lab
Do you think that it could do with a boost? Did you take an injection?
Posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 22:25:46
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 20:31:12
> i'd also been thinking about you after i read a study which showed memantine was able to prevent neuroleptic-induced TD. i was wondering if you might be able to revisit geodon with memantine on board ...
OMG! That would be a dream come true :)
Where did you read this?
Thanks for thinking about me
:)
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 22:39:23
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update. » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 22:23:23
> I had B12 tested. It came out to be in the 'normal' range as opposed to 'deficient' or 'intermediate'. It was 313 pg/ml and the normal range is 180-914 pg/ml at my lab
> Do you think that it could do with a boost? Did you take an injection?absolutely! there's a whole thread on the topic at wrong-diagnosis.com, where people have had their lives profoundly impaired by doctors' neglect of low B12 levels.
313 definitely sounds lowish. i couldn't persuade my doctor to give me the injections so i just ordered the methyl-b12 lozenges from iherb (5mg) and dissolved one under my tongue everyday for a month. i also took a b-complex each day. now i take a maintenance dose of 1mg every second day or so.
i can't guarantee it will help you, but i definitely see no harm in trying. that and low vit D were the two main culprits in my case.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 22:40:38
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 22:25:46
>
>
> OMG! That would be a dream come true :)
> Where did you read this?
> Thanks for thinking about me
> :)here you go ..
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020322/msgs/99980.html
:)
Posted by delna on March 14, 2010, at 14:37:05
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update. » delna, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2010, at 12:36:15
> Delna I've really missed you. Same old here with me but you sound like you made some positive strides. I just wanted to comment on the T3 is it possible it created hyperthyroisim? If so it would pobably take about six weeks for your thyroid to normalize. But not possitive. Great to see you. Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
Any changes on your progress?
I don't feel particularly positive- more like i have hit a dead end.
As for the T3, it must have made me hyperthyroid as I had all the symptoms of that. I have read elsewhere that 6 weeks is also the least you need to wait.
Love
D
Posted by delna on March 14, 2010, at 14:41:19
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by evenintherain on March 12, 2010, at 13:08:49
> thanks for the info, i also have depression with fatigue and seem unable to tolerate parnate. (which i guess is ok since it hasn't helped the depression). have been very curious about ritalin.
>
> hope you continue to improve w/this combo.Thanks
What are you taking now? Is it helping?
Ritalin turned out to be good despite my prejudices against it. It's a drug I've always hated as in the past 10mg has switched me into awful mania. However this time 40mg seems to be just keeping me awake and sort of active.
Are you planning on trying it?
TC
D
Posted by delna on March 14, 2010, at 14:51:39
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update. 03 delna, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2010, at 22:40:38
> >
> >
> > OMG! That would be a dream come true :)
> > Where did you read this?
> > Thanks for thinking about me
> > :)
>
> here you go ..
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020322/msgs/99980.html
>
> :)
>
>Thanks!
Will definitely talk to my psychiatrist!
:)
Posted by bleauberry on March 14, 2010, at 18:48:13
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update. » bleauberry, posted by delna on March 12, 2010, at 20:04:16
>> Hi
> Thanks for the input.
> I really want to try the challenge test- but with herbs and not antibiotic drugs since i react very badly to antibiotic medication.
> I know you have posted at length about the test and i don't want to waste your time so could you please link me to such a post or to a website please.
> Thanks so much
> D
>The challenge tests depend on what you would be "fishing" for. If trying to uncover a hidden Lyme, Coptis Root, Teasel tincture, Cat's Claw...just some of the things Lyme is sensitive to and will cause a diagnostic reaction. It is also sensitive to some of the yeast/candida herbs such as Oil of Oregano, Pau D'arco tea.
The fact that you react very badly to antibiotics in itself is a potentially strong clue. The typical reactions in normal healthy people are things like upset stomach, mild headache, diarrhea...ya know, stuff that isn't earth shattering. But when other stuff happens, like intense migraines, intense indescribable fatigue, aches and pains, depression, and all kinds of bizarre heavy things, you know you are probably reacting to the death of something, not to the antibiotic itself.
Doxycycline for example is widely prescribed for acne. Lots of people take it with hardly any side effects at all. To me it is like a nuclear bomb. It isn't the med doing it though. It's the death caused by it. Unfortunately, surviving and getting through that death period (called the Herxheimer reaction) is the only way to get to the other side in the journey.
Posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2010, at 20:26:11
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update., posted by bleauberry on March 14, 2010, at 18:48:13
BB isn't tetracycline used for acne? Doxy is first line for new lymes. When I took it all I got was a sunburn. No sunscreen. Antibiotics don't ever bother me so maybe never had lymes? Even with positive titers. Well will see the doc that treated it Tuesday. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 17, 2010, at 20:16:18
In reply to Re: What helped and what didn't- my update. » bleauberry, posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2010, at 20:26:11
> BB isn't tetracycline used for acne? Doxy is first line for new lymes.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding antibiotics to Psycho-Babble Health. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/health/20100104/msgs/939847.html
That'll be considered a new thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2010, at 22:00:54
In reply to Redirect: antibiotics, posted by Dr. Bob on March 17, 2010, at 20:16:18
Dr. Bob how come there is a message under your redirects lately? Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2010, at 18:50:35
In reply to Re: Redirect: antibiotics » Dr. Bob, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2010, at 22:00:54
> Dr. Bob how come there is a message under your redirects lately?
I'm working on adding (optional) "signatures" to posts. Let me know what you think at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20091103/msgs/939484.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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